Is King Saul in Heaven?

[ryanmac]

Is there any tradition to suggest that King Saul is either in Heaven or Hell?

 

[NotWorthy]

Is there any tradition to suggest that King Saul is either in Heaven or Hell?

None that I’m aware of, but if I were a betting man, I’d say he’s probably complaining that “*it’s hot down here”.

*What are your thoughts?He’s certainly not an example that one would want to live by, like… say, King David.

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

I have no idea, so I’ll presume that he’s at least in Purgatory.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[NotWorthy]

Did he do ANYTHING to make one consider him a saint? I’m at a loss. I don’t think any of the beatitudes list, "Blessed are those that practice necromancy…" or “Blessed are those that try and assassinate God’s annointed…”.

But I could be wrong.

 

[aball1035]

Why doesn’t the Church canonize Old Testament people? Can we pray to them?

 

[Magnus467]

Couldn’t he have been saved when Jesus died and rose?

 

[ryanmac]

I’m really hoping for some Church teaching on King Saul, but thought I could add a few verses for context.

Also, I realize that immediately after Saul’s death he was in Sheol (or Hades), just as Samuel shares in 1 Samuel 28:19. But was he on the good side of Sheol (Paradise or Abraham’s Bosom) or the bad side (for the unrighteous). But ultimately you either end up in Heaven or Hell, so is there any teaching about which side Saul ended up on?

Consider these verses for reference:

1 Chronicles 10:13-14

Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.

1 Samuel 28:15-19

Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

“I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.”

Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy? The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines.”

2 Samuel 7:15

But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you.

1 Samuel 10:1

Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on Saul’s head and kissed him, saying, "Has not the LORD anointed you leader over his inheritance?

1 Samuel 15:17

Samuel said, "Although you were once small in your own eyes, did you not become the head of the tribes of Israel? The LORD anointed you king over Israel.

1 Samuel 16:1

The LORD said to Samuel, “How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way; I am sending you to Jesse of Bethlehem. I have chosen one of his sons to be king.”

2 Samuel 1:23-24,27

"Saul and Jonathan—
in life they were loved and gracious,
and in death they were not parted.
They were swifter than eagles,
they were stronger than lions.

"O daughters of Israel,
weep for Saul,
who clothed you in scarlet and finery,
who adorned your garments with ornaments of gold.

“How the mighty have fallen!
The weapons of war have perished!”

 

[The_Fool]

Why doesn’t the Church canonize Old Testament people? Can we pray to them?

The Church does not canonize Old Testament people, currently, I think, because it’s too hard to prove a number of them actually existed. The few, relatively speaking, we do know can be prayed to.

The Litany of Saints includes Patriarchs and Prophets near the top, and seeing as how some very familiar names are specifically listed there, one may conclude Patriarchs and Prophets refer to Old Testament persons.

 

[NotWorthy]

Why doesn’t the Church canonize Old Testament people? Can we pray to them?

I was recently surprised to find out that there is a feast of King David.

 

[NotWorthy]

I’m really hoping for some Church teaching on King Saul, but thought I could add a few verses for context.

The Church doesn’t decide that someone is in hell or heaven. The Church has never said that anybody specifically is in hell. She has canonized people that She knows are in heaven, but for a vast majority of us, there is no clear indication.

But from the quotes you showed, why would you think that Saul has a chance in -]hell /-] (… well you know…) of being in heaven?

 

[aball1035]

wait-isn’t this thread kind of like ‘judging’ Saul’s soul? Shouldn’t we not speculate?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Is there any tradition to suggest that King Saul is either in Heaven or Hell?

Why are you asking this question? How would we know? He was pretty evil though, always trying to kill David, and he committed suicide when he fell on his own sword. But Jews don’t believe in Heaven or the afterlife, so why would an Old Testament character be in Christian Heaven?

 

[Evan]

But Jews don’t believe in Heaven or the afterlife, so why would an Old Testament character be in Christian Heaven?

There is only one heaven. The one with Moses, Abraham, Joshua, David, Isaiah… All the OT Saints are in the same heaven as I hope to go to.

 

[NotWorthy]

wait-isn’t this thread kind of like ‘judging’ Saul’s soul? Shouldn’t we not speculate?

Isn’t this an opinion forum? I see no problem in speculating… It’s the “He’s definitely in (insert your own answer here) and all the rest of you don’t know what you are talking about” that should be avoided.

 

[ryanmac]

I appreciate the concern that we should not disrespect this man. As one anointed by God, I want to offer King Saul at least as much respect as King David did.

But I suppose the question has more to do with how the Catholic Church understands justification and when overlaid with what we know of King Saul’s life, how this plays out eternally.

From what I read from your comments, the answer is something like, "The Catholic Church is not the Judge, but, from how She understands justification and salvation, if King Saul indeed died apart from friendship with God, as appears to be indicated by the Scriptures, his eternal outlook doesn’t look promising."

Is this a fair representation of probable Catholic teaching on his salvation?

 

[NotWorthy]

I appreciate the concern that we should not disrespect this man. As one anointed by God, I want to offer King Saul at least as much respect as King David did.

But I suppose the question has more to do with how the Catholic Church understands justification and when overlaid with what we know of King Saul’s life, how this plays out eternally.

From what I read from your comments, the answer is something like, "The Catholic Church is not the Judge, but, from how She understands justification and salvation, if King Saul indeed died apart from friendship with God, as appears to be indicated by the Scriptures, his eternal outlook doesn’t look promising."

Is this a fair representation of probable Catholic teaching on his salvation?

I would agree with the above statement. I’m of the opinion that King Saul is complaining about the heat, rather than that incessant harp-playing.