Is Laughter a sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter codefro
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

codefro

Guest
In chapters 4 and 6 of the Rule of St. Benedict, laughter and speech leading to laughter is condemned. Benedict used the passage in Sirach about the fool who laughs to back up his rule. Is laughter a sin? If not, why?
 
Our Lord loved children - and no one who hangs around children for any length of time can avoid laughter. Children not only say and do things that are funny, but laugh a lot at the world around them as well.

I also think of His close friend Lazarus, who along with his sisters Martha and Mary would appear to have been wealthy, and His parable about the rich man and the poor beggar. I think it was no coincidence, but rather something of a subtle joke, that Our Lord gave the beggar the same name - Lazarus - as His rich friend.
 
codefro said:
In chapters 4 and 6 of the Rule of St. Benedict, laughter and speech leading to laughter is condemned. Benedict used the passage in Sirach about the fool who laughs to back up his rule. Is laughter a sin? If not, why?
Click to expand...
It does not matter who said that. It is not a Church teaching.

No, laughter is not a sin.
 
Laughter is not sinful. It is an expression of joy, and as Christians we are filled with joy! However, it can also express scorn or derision, and this could certainly be sinful. There are also times when laughter is not appropriate, when it might be a distraction to something more important, and this seems to be what St. Benedict is referring to. His goal seems to have been maintaining order and an attitude of prayer in the monastery, and not an absolute condemnation of laughter. Find a good commentary on the Rule of St. Benedict, as much has been written concerning his teaching on laughter. If you have ever been to a Benedictine monastery, you must know that laughter is a part of life there as well. However, as with all things Benedictine, it occurs in moderation, and hopefully at appropriate times - such as times of recreation.
 
codefro said:
In chapters 4 and 6 of the Rule of St. Benedict, laughter and speech leading to laughter is condemned. Benedict used the passage in Sirach about the fool who laughs to back up his rule. Is laughter a sin? If not, why?
Click to expand...
Judging from the writings of the early Church Fathers, the general feeling in the first few centuries of Christianity seemed to be that if laughter was not actually a sin, it was certainly something to be avoided.
 
It’s been a while since I last read In This House of Brede, about life in a Benedictine monastery, but I still remember the character Barbara. When visiting the monastery as a child, she told the Abbess that she wanted to become a nun there. The Abbess asked her what she could do and the child replied (IIRC) “I can laugh and sing.” Which delighted the Abbess. 🙂

I know the book is fiction, but the author, Rumer Godden, stayed at Stanbrook Abbey for a while and talked with the nuns about their lives.
 
From the Rule of St Benedict
  1. Not to speak useless words or words that move to laughter.
Click to expand...
Useless words are the key here.

Monastics live a life of solitude, both physically and interior. Useless words which distract from solitude and provoke useless laughter, or clowning, are not conducive to Monastic life.

Keep in mind that the Rule of St Benedict, is for monastics living in a monastery and not intended for lay people living ordinary lives.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
From the Rule of St Benedict

54. Not to speak useless words or words that move to laughter.

Useless words are the key here.

Monastics live a life of solitude, both physically and interior. Useless words which distract from solitude and provoke useless laughter, or clowning, are not conducive to Monastic life.

Keep in mind that the Rule of St Benedict, is for monastics living in a monastery and not intended for lay people living ordinary lives.

Jim
Click to expand...
I would not say that “useless words” are the key here – I can easily see why useless words are frowned upon. But the part after the “or” is what the OP is asking. We could reword the rule you give as:
“54. Not to speak…words that move to laughter.”

So I’m still curious why, even in a strict monastery, words that even move someone toward laughter are forbidden.
 
Depends on what you’re laughing at.

For example,
Laughing at a cute joke. Not a sin.
Laughing at someone’s misery. Sin.
 
This is what is wrong with this site. Why can’t the moderators do something about this? All these posts do is create confusing for those with scrupulosity. I am really not trying to be mean, but I just feel like this answer is common sense.
 
Rbaker said:
This is what is wrong with this site. Why can’t the moderators do something about this? All these posts do is create confusing for those with scrupulosity. I am really not trying to be mean, but I just feel like this answer is common sense.
Click to expand...
It does sometimes feel that the forum has been taken over by those afflicted with scrupulosity. I’ve finally learned (most of the time) to recognize the people/types of questions so I don’t reply. This time I replied because I wanted to dispel any idea that Benedictines are joyless.
 
Rbaker said:
This is what is wrong with this site. Why can’t the moderators do something about this? All these posts do is create confusing for those with scrupulosity. I am really not trying to be mean, but I just feel like this answer is common sense.
Click to expand...
I was going to say something similar. I don’t understand how anyone could think that laughter was a sin.
I don’t get it at all.
 
surritter said:
I would not say that “useless words” are the key here – I can easily see why useless words are frowned upon. But the part after the “or” is what the OP is asking. We could reword the rule you give as:
“54. Not to speak…words that move to laughter.”

So I’m still curious why, even in a strict monastery, words that even move someone toward laughter are forbidden.
Click to expand...
Both are in the same context

Words which move to laughter are generally about something or someone which are not in conducive for obtaining solitude and interior silence.

Trappist, i.e. Cistercians of the Strict Observance, use to make vows of silence and only spoke during chores and group prayer. Otherwise they did not speak and they’d use hand gestures, if needed to convey something.

Its a discipline of course and we’d need a Benedictine Monk to help explain it better.

Either way, its designed for Monks living in a cloister , not for lay people.

Jim
 
As long as your not laughing at someone’s suffering or fowl jokes it’s not a sin.
 
mattd327 said:
As long as your not laughing at someone’s suffering or fowl jokes it’s not a sin.
Click to expand...
Fowl joke:

Why did the chicken cross the road? To show the skunk it could be done. 😃

I once wrote a cooking article titled “Murder Most Fowl.” It was about mystery/detective stories that contain recipes; the recipe I chose for the article was, of course, fowl - a turkey. 🙂
 
Rbaker said:
This is what is wrong with this site. Why can’t the moderators do something about this? All these posts do is create confusing for those with scrupulosity. I am really not trying to be mean, but I just feel like this answer is common sense.
Click to expand...
You’re missing the point. I doubt that anyone really believes this in the sense that you’re implying. But we are analyzing a historical document that prescribed such for monks.
Nothing wrong with a little banter about what somebody 1500 years ago might have been thinking about!
 
codefro said:
In chapters 4 and 6 of the Rule of St. Benedict, laughter and speech leading to laughter is condemned. Benedict used the passage in Sirach about the fool who laughs to back up his rule. Is laughter a sin? If not, why?
Click to expand...
*Haydock Commentary, Ecclesiasticus 21:23
*

23 A fool lifteth up his voice in laughter: but a wise man will scarce laugh low to himself.

Ver. 23. Low. A smiling countenance is commendable, but loud laughter is to be avoided. (Clement, Pæd. ii. 5.) — It causes too great a change, (Plato, Rep. 3.) and is a mark of folly, Ecclesiastes vii. 5. (St. Augustine, contra Acad. ii. 2.)
 
Vico said:
*Haydock Commentary, Ecclesiasticus 21:23
*

23 A fool lifteth up his voice in laughter: but a wise man will scarce laugh low to himself.

Ver. 23. Low. A smiling countenance is commendable, but loud laughter is to be avoided. (Clement, Pæd. ii. 5.) — It causes too great a change, (Plato, Rep. 3.) and is a mark of folly, Ecclesiastes vii. 5. (St. Augustine, contra Acad. ii. 2.)
Click to expand...
I guess I’m sunk. The oddest things will make me laugh & it’s very hard to stop!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top