Is legalized abortion and contraception thinning the number of people with liberal values?

[BobCatholic]

If left to themselves, leftists will contracept, abort, homosexualize and euthanize themselves out of existence. Karl Marx’s book would be in some museum somewhere, collecting dust, as a historical curiosity, instead of official government policy now.

Leftists know this, that’s why they must impose their viewpoint on everyone by use of the government. It is a matter of survival for them.

That’s why they take over public schools and use them to brainwash students into being little leftists.

They do the same for high schools, junior colleges, colleges, universities, newspapers, TV channels, Hollywood and so on. One has to be a leftist to survive in those areas, or at least lip synch their doctrine.

They refuse to have kids of their own so they want to take our children and turn them into leftists. They replaced sexual reproduction with ideological reproduction (propaganda)

 

[JamesATyler]

I was just looking at numberofabortions.com/

55+ million abortions in the US since 1973. 1.2+ billion abortions in the world since 1980.

Many of those people who were aborted would have had their own kids by now. There might have been 75+ million more people in this country today. According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population there are 314,855,000 people in the US, so abortion has made a large difference in this country’s population.

That is alot of lost power.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I don’t know where anyone is getting the idea that liberals don’t have kids. Seriously? Most liberals I know were raised by liberal parents and either have kids of their own or want kids.

They “refuse to have kids of their own”? They “take over our public schools?” (Those are our public schools too, by the way.) They will “contracept, abort, and homosexualize themselves out of existence?”

Wow…

There are either a lot of very misinformed people on this thread who think that liberals are a bunch of childfree hippies who snatch up children or a lot of intentional hyperbolies.

 

[Nimzovik]

**1)**I don’t know where anyone is getting the idea that liberals don’t have kids. Seriously? Most liberals I know were raised by liberal parents and either have kids of their own or want kids.

They “refuse to have kids of their own”? 2)They “take over our public schools?” (Those are our public schools too, by the way.) They will “contracept, abort, and homosexualize themselves out of existence?”

Wow…

1. There are either a lot of very misinformed people on this thread who think that liberals are a bunch of childfree hippies who snatch up children or a lot of intentional hyperbolies.

**Numerals Mine: Bolding Mine: **

1. Indeed? Hmmmm… If we were just to use a static analysis of the number children present in ‘Liberal’ families compared to religously devout ‘Traditional Catholic Families’ methinks one will indeed find more children in the Traditional Catholic Family Model and hence Liberals would breed …er not breed themselves to the same degree.
2. In regard as to "…(Those are our public schools too, by the way.)" ,methinks the Liberal hegemony assures Public Schools are wayyyyyy more secular than they are Religous, eh wot? That is, the said Public Schools** are** more Liberal and not tolerant of practicing Catholics. Heavens! Just look at the intolerance by Liberals for the concept of Intelligent Design being even mentioned in the curriculum of Public Schools! Or the required Same Sex Curriculum. Condom education for Pre teens. Abortion on demand provided** free** of charge(except for the taxes paid to Planned Parenhood of course) without Parental Consent or knowledge of performed on underage children, a la California. Which BTW, fosters a** wonderful** environment IMHO for the sexual Predator as headlines indicate Planned Parenthood’s rather deficient reporting to Police agencies of statutory rape/ signs of sexual abuse.
   See here:
   childpredator.com/TheSolution.cfm

and here:
dakotavoice.com/2011/02/busted-again-planned-parenthood-aids-underage-prostitution/
and here:
ncregister.com/site/article/2782

and here:
opposingviews.com/i/religion/victory-against-planned-parenthood-failed-report-incest-and-rape-minor

We don’t let minors buy guns or drive cars. Teachers can not give even an aspirin to children without a pre signed parental agreement. But an Abortion is just mighty fine! Liberal thinking at it’s very best.

As you say…Wow…

Yes Liberals are indeed inflicting their faith on Catholics. Just look at the News headlines of today: foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/30/state-judge-rules-louisiana-school-voucher-program-unconstitutional/
Face it. Atheists and Liberals are inflicting their Faith on Christians by judicial Activism.
Let us* not* be Naieve here…

1. Interesting words you employ here…

 

[sw85]

I was just looking at numberofabortions.com/

55+ million abortions in the US since 1973. 1.2+ billion abortions in the world since 1980.

Many of those people who were aborted would have had their own kids by now. There might have been 75+ million more people in this country today. According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population there are 314,855,000 people in the US, so abortion has made a large difference in this country’s population.

That is alot of lost power.

That might be true if there were any reason to believe people = power, or if you believe abortion policy has no impact on existing fertility, so that all of those people would’ve been conceived without Roe v. Wade. There’s no reason to suppose that’s true, though, given that many people use abortion contraceptively and we already know what contraception does to sexual habits.

 

[benjammin]

Just remember that contraceptive culture isn’t the only rotten fruit of liberalism. We also have it to thank for all those who go on having as many babies as possible and divorcing as many husbands as possible to rake in all the child support and other government handouts they can get.

Also a lot of the people who call themselves conservative are still pro-contraception, even the so-called Catholics. Even the vast majority I daresay.

Don’t just blame liberals on this, I saw an article that listed the states with the highest divorce rates as of 2009, all but 1 were red states (and that one was Nevada which was only because of quickie divorces), and most were deep red states like Alabama and Oklahoma. Granted the source is MSNBC
msnbc.msn.com/id/44308315/ns/business-personal_finance/t/oklahoma-tops-list-highest-divorce-rates/#.ULodqaXhA4Y

Anyway, while liberal culture does lead to divorce, I think in a lot of liberal states people just cohabitate. I think in a lot of these states, mentioned in the above article, there are a lot of issues. People probably get married younger (common in more conservative states. Here in Nebraska i’d say the average age to get married is probably 23-24, 4 years younger than average) which can be stressful for people who for the most part are just kids. They also probably are poorer, putting strain on marriage and because of their youth don’t know how to make it work. Also, for all we know, there could be a lot of shotgun weddings. I think out of wedlock births are higher in these states too. The last thing I think is that these states are high on evangelicals, who have no prohibition against divorce. Thats just my 2 cents though. I’m not saying blue states are better, they probably just abort the babies or use contraception more, but this is far from a liberal conservative problem.

 

[BobCatholic]

I don’t know where anyone is getting the idea that liberals don’t have kids. Seriously? Most liberals I know were raised by liberal parents and either have kids of their own or want kids.

They “refuse to have kids of their own”? They “take over our public schools?” (Those are our public schools too, by the way.) They will “contracept, abort, and homosexualize themselves out of existence?”

Wow…

There are either a lot of very misinformed people on this thread who think that liberals are a bunch of childfree hippies who snatch up children or a lot of intentional hyperbolies.

Please show me leftist families with 10 kids.

9 kids?

8 kids?

You won’t find any.

Having many kids goes against everything leftism stands for: which is selfishness “me me me me me me” thinking.

On the other hand, examples of non-leftist families with large numbers of kids abound.

There are people who refuse to open their eyes.

When leftists are pro-abortion, they see no value in children and don’t want to have any, or any more.

 

[BobCatholic]

That is alot of lost power.

Only if those dead children were killed by people who actually practiced their faith. The overwhelming vast majority of post abortive women do not have faith, or do not practice their faith.

 

[JamesATyler]

but this is far from a liberal conservative problem.

Maybe its my terminology that is the problem. I have been looking at it this way. If someone gets an abortion then that person has executed a liberal value. People who are conservative do not get abortions.

Now I am not talking about what a person calls himself. I can call myself whatever I please but if I promote and practice abortion am I not actually liberal even if I claim to be conservative?

I knew this catholic guy that disliked cafeteria catholics. Years later he allowed his daughter to use birth control. Even if he claims otherwise isn’t he what he dislikes?

The way I look at it, it is actually a liberal vs conservative values problem. When I was young, I was pro choice. But when an unplanned pregnancy happened I decided that abortion was wrong and not an option. People often don’t actually know what they are until they are in a situation where the decision is personal.

Actions speak louder than words. Who cares what a person’s mouth says. It’s their actions that make them liberal or conservative. Its more of a discovery process than a declaration.

To SW85
All those millions do equal political power. They are all potential voters. Parents do instill their own values in their children. That doesn’t mean they can’t reject and change their own values over their lifetime because of their own personal experience but I think they do often start from where their parents have taught them. Their parents at least have a powerful influence on what they believe is right or wrong. As much as a teacher or friends at school I would bet.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Please show me leftist families with 10 kids.

9 kids?

8 kids?

You won’t find any.

Having many kids goes against everything leftism stands for: which is selfishness “me me me me me me” thinking.

On the other hand, examples of non-leftist families with large numbers of kids abound.

There are people who refuse to open their eyes.

When leftists are pro-abortion, they see no value in children and don’t want to have any, or any more.

Um, my aunt has 9 kids (extremely liberal), my brother and SIL have 6, I hope to have a large number of kids, even if only through adoption. There are many large liberal families out there.

Oh, and I would be careful about equating small families with selfishness.

 

[JamesATyler]

Um, my aunt has 9 kids (extremely liberal), my brother and SIL have 6, I hope to have a large number of kids, even if only through adoption. There are many large liberal families out there.

Oh, and I would be careful about equating small families with selfishness.

You might call her extremely liberal but she is not so liberal that she aborted her children.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You might call her extremely liberal but she is not so liberal that she aborted her children.

Having an abortion or not is not what makes someone liberal in the least. And my SIL did have one abortion that I know of. She was in grad school and it was so close after giving birth to her 4th that she just wasn’t ready to go through it again.

Lots of liberals don’t have abortions (I haven’t) and a lot of people who have abortions aren’t liberal.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Conservative Baby Boom, Liberal Baby Bust

Longman points to these figures:

• In the U.S., 47 percent of people who attend church weekly say their ideal family size is three or more children, but only 27 percent of those who seldom attend church feel that way.

• In Utah, where more than two-thirds of residents are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 92 children are born each year for every 1,000 women. Vermont — the first state to embrace gay unions — has the nation’s lowest rate: 51 children per 1,000 women.

• The average fertility rate in states that voted for President Bush in 2004 is more than 11 percent higher than the rate in states that voted for Sen. John Kerry.

• Demographic data show that in Europe today, progressives who say they find soft drugs, homosexuality and euthanasia acceptable are far more likely to live alone or be in childless, cohabiting unions than those with more conservative views.

Longman also points out that nearly 20 percent of American women born in the late 1950s are reaching the end of their reproductive lives without having children.

Therefore, "the greatly expanded childless segment of contemporary society, whose members are drawn disproportionately from the feminist and countercultural movements of the 1960s and '70s, will leave no genetic legacy,” writes Longman, author of "The Empty Cradle: How Falling Birthrates Threaten World Prosperity and What to Do About It.”

archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/17/125031.shtml?s=us

 

[JamesATyler]

Having an abortion or not is not what makes someone liberal in the least. And my SIL did have one abortion that I know of. She was in grad school and it was so close after giving birth to her 4th that she just wasn’t ready to go through it again.

Lots of liberals don’t have abortions (I haven’t) and a lot of people who have abortions aren’t liberal.

I think having an abortion makes a person liberal in regard to that issue. Likewise if a person who is pro abortion has a change of heart and becomes anti abortion they have become conservative in regard to abortion. That’s why we disagree.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think having an abortion makes a person liberal in regard to that issue. Likewise if a person who is pro abortion has a change of heart and becomes anti abortion they have become conservative in regard to abortion. That’s why we disagree.

“She was no so liberal that she aborted her children.”

What if she is very pro-choice but wanted kids? I’m very pro choice. If I got pregnant tomorrow I would abort. But someday I want kids. Being pro choice and being a mom are not mutually exclusive. (Just ask my mom.)

 

[JamesATyler]

“She was no so liberal that she aborted her children.”

What if she is very pro-choice but wanted kids? I’m very pro choice. If I got pregnant tomorrow I would abort. But someday I want kids. Being pro choice and being a mom are not mutually exclusive. (Just ask my mom.)

I agree they are not mutually exclusive. If you have an abortion though, that is one less kid of yours even if you have others. When you raise your kids, you will teach them the virtues of pro choice and they will likely accept it at least for a while. They may practice it and have less kids as well than they might have had if they were taught to reject the teaching.

I think I have read enough responses to see that I’m not the only one who thinks that could mean fewer children being born and raised with that particular liberal value. There is still going to be people and institutions who promote abortion but resistance to it could likely increase since children of anti-abortion parents are more likely to live and be raised with anti abortion views.

Its not something that will happen over one lifetime. I am talking about generations.

edit:

Even if the law remains in effect indefinitely, it just seems to make sense to me that since the law gives people the right to eliminate some or all of their own progeny, who are the people that are most likely to accept their parents views on abortion, that over generations the number of abortions will decrease. I’m not saying that the world has seen the peak of abortions yet though.

 

[Faithdancer]

No: they reproduce through “higher education.”

Yes and including in some cases, “higher education” at so-called “Catholic” universities.

 

[Nimzovik]

**Having an abortion or not is not what makes someone liberal in the least. **And my SIL did have one abortion that I know of. She was in grad school and it was so close after giving birth to her 4th that she just wasn’t ready to go through it again.

Lots of liberals don’t have abortions (I haven’t) and a lot of people who have abortions aren’t liberal.

Bolding Mine:

Abortion is definitely a** Liberal** plank of politics. Is not Obama a Liberal? Was not his campaign* funded* by Planned Parenthood?

I have no respect for those that claim to be conservative, yet actively participate in the Abortion process. There indeed be many of these methinks.

Having an abortion certainly does not make one Catholic, I know this for certain*.*

 

[atheistgirl]

If left to themselves, leftists will contracept, abort, homosexualize and euthanize themselves out of existence. Karl Marx’s book would be in some museum somewhere, collecting dust, as a historical curiosity, instead of official government policy now.

Leftists know this, that’s why they must impose their viewpoint on everyone by use of the government. It is a matter of survival for them.

That’s why they take over public schools and use them to brainwash students into being little leftists.

They do the same for high schools, junior colleges, colleges, universities, newspapers, TV channels, Hollywood and so on. One has to be a leftist to survive in those areas, or at least lip synch their doctrine.

They refuse to have kids of their own so they want to take our children and turn them into leftists. They replaced sexual reproduction with ideological reproduction (propaganda)

Wow! I’d offer you a broader brush to paint people with, but I don’t think I could find one broader than the one you’re using.

Please show me leftist families with 10 kids.

9 kids?

8 kids?

You won’t find any.

Hi I’m Sarah and I’m thrilled to meet you - let me introduce you to my family … and some of my friends families…

Sarah x

 

[chartreusefox]

Do the majority of children carry forward, through the generations, the values of their parents? If so, does this mean that the reduction in the number of children produced by people with far left principles like abortion or moderate principles like contraception reduce their political and cultural influence on future generations?

As far as I know, most societies tend to become more liberal over time–at least, within the past few centuries. Also, new generations often–if not always–differ from their parents’ generations in some way, or else we would never have cultural change.