Is Liberal Catholicism Dead? - Time Article

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Soutane said:
I do note that you have3,853 posts under your belt-more than I do so I’m sure you’re altready aware of the resources here.Perhaps a Traditionalist site is what you seek.I assume you are not Catholic.
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Thank you for your sincere concern.

I am Catholic. However, I removed my religious designation in the midst of a temper tantrum over some Catholic posts when I first started posting. The current empty slot is a humble reminder to me of the many things I have learned and experienced since my decision to remain in the fray of some very difficult threads. CAF’s strong orthodox Catholics were and still are my role models.

When I saw Buffalo’s thread, I was sure everyone would reply that liberal Catholicism is not only not dead, but it is alive and growing. The wolf is in sheep’s clothing. It is not the low numbers of misguided liberals on CAF that is significant; it is the basis for their position which is the danger within. There is plenty of sleeping with the enemy…especially on Sunday mornings. 😉

Because of the 2008 International Eucharistic Congress in Quebec, I started looking for the source for empty pews on Sunday morning and found a few candidates but have not yet found the connecting thread. It may be a form of liberal Catholicism, similar to cafeteria Catholicism, which is the driving force. In any case, I find liberal Catholicism regarding Catholic doctrine alive and well.

Blessings,
granny

Spring is God’s message of faith in the future.
 
We might be hoping for too much to hope that it is dead.

What is dead, or at least dying, is the misinformation that’s even echoed in the article. Yes, Vatican II did change the form of the Mass, but it did not change a single dogma or belief of the church. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. It was the belief that it opened any of them up to questioning or revision that led to the “liberal” Catholics making noise.

Difficulties in the Western Catholic countries arose not because of changes Vatican II made, but because of the “Spirit of Vatican II” that was invented by those who wanted to change things.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Gerry_Hunter said:
We might be hoping for too much to hope that it is dead.

What is dead, or at least dying, is the misinformation that’s even echoed in the article. Yes, Vatican II did change the form of the Mass, but it did not change a single dogma or belief of the church. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. It was the belief that it opened any of them up to questioning or revision that led to the “liberal” Catholics making noise.

Difficulties in the Western Catholic countries arose not because of changes Vatican II made, but because of the “Spirit of Vatican II” that was invented by those who wanted to change things.

Blessings,

Gerry
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You are so right. Furthermore, anyone from the Beatnik era knows that change for the sake of change was before Vatican II. This led to the mistaken belief that Vatican II endorsed any invented change regardless of its value in the sight of God.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
He never quite “gets” what people are saying. It happens a lot. The use of many question marks is his tell.
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Given that Estes Bob replied to my "Is that what you think I said? with “Appears to me that is what you said,” the confusion on both his and my parts following a statement I made does not warrant your snide criticism of him or of me. 😦
 
After VII where did we get our info? How was it disseminated?

Today we can go right to the source through the internet. This is very important in protecting the truth and identifying heresy. It is now so simple a caveman can do it.🙂
 
buffalo said:
After VII where did we get our info? How was it disseminated?

Today we can go right to the source through the internet. This is very important in protecting the truth and identifying heresy. It is now so simple a caveman can do it.🙂
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Well, if you surf to the right site.

But you are onto something. The V II documents are readily accessible today, but at the closing of the Council, they were not. So what was left was conventional media, and academia. This needs to be said: many “Catholic” theologians stabbed the church in the back, and contaminated many a seminar room with the thought that the Faith had become a contest of ideas, and not following revealed truth. And of course, the conventional media was so into the me-me-me thing of the time that they took and spread the story that the Catholic Church had changed, and more changes were under way.

A read of the documents shows there were neither changes nor the initiation of a contest of ideas. But to check the flow of the contaminated flood waters took years of work by a courageous Pope and a faithful Prefect protecting the Doctrine of the Faith. But in the end, as the late Fr. Neuhaus put it, the center held. Extremists who claimed changes had been made, or that changes could be made, did not prevail. The teachings of the Church did.

The sad thing left is that the proponents of the “spirit” of V II who are left have become bitter as well as old. Sad because they may pass still in error, and unreconciled to their Holy Mother who would unhesitatingly welcome them back.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
We survived the Arians, and we’ll survive the Liberals and the Perverts as well.

Besides, maybe all those tie dyed shirts and hemp sandals will turn into fossil fuels one day, to be used by future Catholics.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
I’ll believe that the Church has reverted to the old “traditionist” mode when the Catholic divorce rate becomes significantly lower than that of non-Catholics and when ABC is no longer as much the norm among Catholic women as non-Catholics.

I don’t think that the old mentality of “pray, pay, and obey” will become universal again.
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A lot of that depends on how you measure ‘Catholic’. There are cultural Catholics, ‘Christmas and Easter’ Catholics, weekly Mass Catholics and daily Mass Catholics.

All of those have different divorce rates, abortion rates and contraceptive rates.

Some map towards the national averages (Cultural Catholics, CnE Catholics), others are far less.

So it does mean that those who sit in the pews are hearing a good message.
 
Adeodatus said:
We survived the Arians, and we’ll survive the Liberals and the Perverts as well.

Besides, maybe all those tie dyed shirts and hemp sandals will turn into fossil fuels one day, to be used by future Catholics.
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:rotfl:
 
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