Is liberalism invincible? What can stop it?

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I’ve developed the theory that liberalism is, in the current incarnation and against us, invincible. Why? because it seems that liberalism says that all people are equal and that therefore all people should have equal access to all good things and that this equality is the essence of justice. Perhaps God does not exist but if he does then he wants this outcome. These ideas I think, define liberalism. It also explains its perennial strength which subsists in that it promises all happiness to all people with no exemptions and it promises this uncritically (it will do anything to achieve absolute tolerance/acceptance of people even if it means not accepting those that refuse to do so). It is THE philosophy of niceness. Because of this it has monopolized the one force of attraction which is alone sufficient and necessary for political success -charisma.
In order to oppose this philosophy one must either become somewhat misanthropic, or one must merely represent an exception or compromise to or with the general ideology. In case one, you cannot attract followers since you are necessarily telling people that they suck and that they should see themselves in the same light (and who are you, in an equal world, to tell someone else that they are less than you?). Since few people are capable of living in a society where their leaders necessarily berate them, they will never accept that leadership on these terms. In case two, you similarly cannot find followers for long, since you are presenting yourself as a parochial interest. In this case you don’t have an ideology but rather a political interest in the least flattering sense of the word (it is interesting in this connection, how much the modern and old conservative despised ideology). Here your sense of being different directly drives against the idea of equality and excites disgust while your power is at the mercy of those few who would pity your weakness.

Therefore direct opposition is hopeless. But it rarely happens that ideologies are directly confronted and defeated but rather they are morphed from the inside into becoming something totally different. So how can we do this with liberalism? I believe we can do this by showing how two parts of liberalism, the liberated modern world and egalitarianism are incompatible. We should say that the very idea of the scientific logic, which liberates atheism from theism and modern cosmology from medieval cosmology, goes against liberalism because it exposes liberalism as a mere appearance of knowledge and science. Liberalism assumes as self-evident or obvious that all men are equal. So of course, it would come to prove also that all men ought to be equal. But this is nothing if not circular argument. So liberalism has a tension from which it cannot escape.

That’s my extensive two-cents on how to deal with liberalism. Any thoughts?
 
For me, it’s sufficient to believe that 1) God exists, 2) God is the definition of goodness, 3) What God wills and does is, by definition, good, and any attempt to oppose Him whatever the reason is, objectively, evil, even if it is intended subjectively to be good.
 
If Jesus ran for Republican President of the United States, conservatives would probably throw him out the window.

Feeding the hungry? Clothing the naked? Sounds like welfare and handouts.
Healing the sick? Obviously universal healthcare.
Loving your enemies? I can’t see the country that tortures suspected terrorists on their own land loving their enemies.
Not making the temple a place of commerce? Sounds anti-capitalist.
Giving up your unneeded belongings? Oh, but come on, Jesus, I really want my luxury boat.

How “Unchristian” does being a liberal seem now?
 
It’s not invincible; it’s merely the current zeitgeist (i.e. spirit of the age). It’s the modern manifestation of problem that has always plagued humanity - wanting to be our own god. It will pass, just as every other political ideology has.

In terms of converting people from it through reasoned argumentation, there are no arguments one can put forth without eventually using God as the foundation that hold any water at all. This is what all the great philosophers recognized, that without God there is no reason to think reason tells us anything at all. There are some who took this position but still did not believe in God - the old atheists - yet they were at least willing to acknowledge the consequences, and none of them lived their beliefs in a practical way (well, some of them did, and were either imprisoned or died of their insanity shortly thereafter).

So yeah, you can attack liberalism in a number of ways - any political ideology that isn’t firmly founded on God will have a number of contradictions within it that you can prove need to be reconciled or the whole notion is false. But good luck getting people to think rationally about politics to begin with.

Better it would be to love such people and pray for them. There is a time and place for reasoned argumentation, and certainly take it when the chance comes, but a good rule of thumb (that I learned the hard way) is to spend as much time praying for those you argue with as you do arguing with them. The Holy Spirit has been converting people for over 2000 years - the best thing we can do is be a living witness to the HS with our lives, and show people that Christianity is a religion that believes in the infinite dignity of every human being by behaving towards them accordingly, and only secondly that we have good reason to believe this when they ask why we’re so nice and compassionate and filled with love all the time. 😃
 
I agree with post #2. Seems to linger around forever. But the change is coming. I feel it in the air already, the tables are turning. To everything there is a season.

Matthew “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
 
Liberalism (aka Progressivism, aka Modernism, aka Socialism) promises the same thing Jim Jones promised which is a man-made utopia on earth. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that any promise like this is a lie and is the spirit of the Antichrist.
675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
676 The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.
 
If Jesus ran for Republican President of the United States, conservatives would probably throw him out the window.

Feeding the hungry? Clothing the naked? Sounds like welfare and handouts.
Healing the sick? Obviously universal healthcare.
Loving your enemies? I can’t see the country that tortures suspected terrorists on their own land loving their enemies.
Not making the temple a place of commerce? Sounds anti-capitalist.
Giving up your unneeded belongings? Oh, but come on, Jesus, I really want my luxury boat.

How “Unchristian” does being a liberal seem now?
Seriously? Generalize much? Have you heard of the principle of subsidiarity?

Jesus is ABOVE conservatism and liberalism. That is one of the reasons the Jews were confused. The messiah was not a political leader. Don’t try to make him into one.
 
If Jesus ran for Republican President of the United States, conservatives would probably throw him out the window.

Feeding the hungry? Clothing the naked? Sounds like welfare and handouts.
Healing the sick? Obviously universal healthcare.
Loving your enemies? I can’t see the country that tortures suspected terrorists on their own land loving their enemies.
Not making the temple a place of commerce? Sounds anti-capitalist.
Giving up your unneeded belongings? Oh, but come on, Jesus, I really want my luxury boat.

How “Unchristian” does being a liberal seem now?
I have choice words, and gestures, for this kind of mindless, thoughtless, soundbyte nonsense.

This is also the man who said “eat my flesh; drink my blood. My word has eternal life. I will raise you up on the last day. I am the gate. I am the Way, the Truth, the Life. No one comes to the Father, save through Me.”

Stop reducing Jesus to your petty little altruistic Good man. He is a good man. That is because He is God. God is the definition of good. And He is that. Jesus is GOD.

He stands, most importantly, for Truth. That is something liberalism and conservatism both fail at meeting sometimes - Truth. Anyone who is rapt in politics is in some respect or another a liar and a testifier to lies. That is why I despise modern politics. That is why I love Jesus, and the Catholic Church.

I don’t care if contraception is popular, or unstoppable. It’s bad, and that’s the truth. Same goes for sodomy, and divorce, and opting for thinking the image of God, man, can sufficiently take the role of the image of the image of God, woman. And why?

Because HE ROSE. HE ROSE. If your argument DOES NOT take this into account, it is most likely invalid, because there is nothing that explains all that has happened in the past 2000 years. Most especially the point of impact, 2000 years ago. And more importantly, especially in the West, there’s nothing the Resurrection has not touched.
 
If Jesus ran for Republican President of the United States, conservatives would probably throw him out the window.

Feeding the hungry? Clothing the naked? Sounds like welfare and handouts.
Healing the sick? Obviously universal healthcare.
Loving your enemies? I can’t see the country that tortures suspected terrorists on their own land loving their enemies.
Not making the temple a place of commerce? Sounds anti-capitalist.
Giving up your unneeded belongings? Oh, but come on, Jesus, I really want my luxury boat.

How “Unchristian” does being a liberal seem now?
Pretty unchristian considering statistics and studies consistently show that while liberals talk about giving more, conservatives actually really give up. 50% more to charities. 40% more blood in blood drives. It’s not even close.

To answer the question of the op, I don’t think liberalism is invincible. I think it’s inherently suicidal. It will eventually destroy itself.
 
If Jesus ran for Republican President of the United States, conservatives would probably throw him out the window.

Feeding the hungry? Clothing the naked? Sounds like welfare and handouts.
Healing the sick? Obviously universal healthcare.
Loving your enemies? I can’t see the country that tortures suspected terrorists on their own land loving their enemies.
Not making the temple a place of commerce? Sounds anti-capitalist.
Giving up your unneeded belongings? Oh, but come on, Jesus, I really want my luxury boat.

How “Unchristian” does being a liberal seem now?
Generalizations are an ugly closeminded way to express yourself.I will not bother to point out the vile things the other side purports to believe and celebrate.Everyone here already knows what they are. Gods word is sometimes hard to follow,but his word is eternal and applies to all no matter your political affiliation. God Bless.
 
If Jesus ran for Republican President of the United States, conservatives would probably throw him out the window.

Feeding the hungry? Clothing the naked? Sounds like welfare and handouts.
Healing the sick? Obviously universal healthcare.
Loving your enemies? I can’t see the country that tortures suspected terrorists on their own land loving their enemies.
Not making the temple a place of commerce? Sounds anti-capitalist.
Giving up your unneeded belongings? Oh, but come on, Jesus, I really want my luxury boat.

How “Unchristian” does being a liberal seem now?
If Jesus ran as a Democrat President of the United States what do you think progressives would jump for joy? abortion? thou shall not kill. Assisted suicide? sorry, there’s that pesky
thou shall not kill. Legalization of drugs? sorry, thou shall not have other gods before me.
legalize prostitution? sorry, adualtry. Homosexual marriage? sorry, God wants only men and women to procreate.
See, I can do point out your logical fallacies too.
 
If Jesus ran for Republican President of the United States, conservatives would probably throw him out the window.

Feeding the hungry? Clothing the naked? Sounds like welfare and handouts.
Healing the sick? Obviously universal healthcare.
Loving your enemies? I can’t see the country that tortures suspected terrorists on their own land loving their enemies.
Not making the temple a place of commerce? Sounds anti-capitalist.
Giving up your unneeded belongings? Oh, but come on, Jesus, I really want my luxury boat.

How “Unchristian” does being a liberal seem now?
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I guess you go in for the “Jesus was a hippie” theory…:rolleyes:

Got a newsflash for you. Jesus didn’t tell people to rely upon the Roman government for any of these things. He told PEOPLE to do them. He also told people “He who does not work, should not eat.” This Obamacare, is not a miracle and does not heal anyone.

Your portrayal of America is ridiculous, and wrong. And if that is really what you believe America to be, you can leave here and find some other country that is better. In the meantime, give back anything you’ve been blessed with through the good people of this fine nation.

What a punkish post. :mad: You actually insulted Jesus by stating those things. :mad:
 
If Jesus ran for Republican President of the United States, conservatives would probably throw him out the window.

Feeding the hungry? Clothing the naked? Sounds like welfare and handouts.
Healing the sick? Obviously universal healthcare.
Loving your enemies? I can’t see the country that tortures suspected terrorists on their own land loving their enemies.
Not making the temple a place of commerce? Sounds anti-capitalist.
Giving up your unneeded belongings? Oh, but come on, Jesus, I really want my luxury boat.

How “Unchristian” does being a liberal seem now?
You might consider removing the huge log from your eye before proceeding.
 
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I guess you go in for the “Jesus was a hippie” theory…:rolleyes:
Yeah, a real blast from the past. Talk about cherry-picking the gospels! :rolleyes:

I especially like the implication that there are no rich liberals. That so fits with reality.
 
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