Is Life Worth Living?

[meltzerboy]

Many decades ago Bishop Fulton Seen published a book titled Life Is Worth Living.

To some in this forum, that proposition is doubtful because we live on a hostile planet in a hostile universe.

European existentialist philosophers (like Sartre and Camus) back in the 30s and 40s were busy exploring the attractions of suicide.

Yet in Genesis, at the end of each day of Creation, God saw that what he had done was good.

The problem of evil is often invoked as an aspect of Creation that God is responsible for.

What say you? Is life really worth living?

How hostile really are the Earth and the Universe?

I think life is worth living when you are young, middle-aged, and old provided you are in relatively good health. In the case of very old people in poor, deteriorating health, I’m not so sure life is worth living, especially when they are aware of the continuous, gradual deterioration. I’m not even discussing the lives of people who suffer with debilitating diseases throughout their lives, only the normal aging process in the latter stages of life. Of course, there are aids, such as faith, family, friends, activities; but I know of too many suffering elderly people who would rather die sooner than later, not to mention the horrific pain and stress felt by family members who care for the sick and elderly.

 

[ServusHumilis]

It is obvious that you will have no understanding at all of what I say…

What you’re saying is of little value at any rate. I’d change it to “God is life. God is love. God is happiness. God is everything.”

 

[empther]

What you’re saying is of little value at any rate.

It is of immense value,
if it makes the lucky people in this world reconsider the situation of the miserable people who never get a break, who are helpless and hopeless, and who just can’t win no matter what they do.

Or didn’t you know there are such people?

 

[4love2God]

Someone wrote to empther:** “What you’re saying is of little value at any rate.”**

To which empther replied:** “It is of immense value,
if it makes the lucky people in this world reconsider the situation of the miserable people who never get a break,
who are helpless and hopeless, and who just can’t win no matter what they do.
Or didn’t you know there are such people?”**

Well empther is partially correct, when he says:** “it makes the lucky people in this world reconsider…”**
All of those Lucky People, however, are just us here at the Forum.

I do not understand why you think that most of us are Blind to the Plight of being one of the Poor.
In my experience, most of the people I know are pained (to varying levels) by the fact that starvation and de-humanization exists.
So when you throw out an obviously pointed question that couldn’t be answered with a “NO” . . . it’s a little unfair, i.e., "Or didn’t you know there ARE such people?"

A different (and fairer) question would be: "Didn’t you Know any such people?"
This can be answered, and open up the conversation to Reality … That Pit … that Pain … Fear … Emotional Trauma
And most people can understand (at least a fraction of) what those Billion lives are like.

Truly, the only people I know who are openly hostile to the Poor are far-Right on the political scale.
I have heard many-a-Story about one “poor” guy who had managed to rip-off the System, for a few thousand dollars.
And, that always escalates into: All of those stinking Leeches on society.** … … …**
A pity.

In my personal Life, if I don’t do something to control it,
my heart will bleed for abused children in “crazy” countries, and suffer over people who have NO clean water.

I do (at least some of) what I can.
I pray . . . I donate . . . I hope . . . I expect . . . I wonder . . . I wince when the Reality hits me in the Face . . . Oh, Pain is here . . . I sigh . . . I go on with my Day.

 

[empther]

Well empther is partially correct, when he says: “it makes the lucky people in this world reconsider…”
All of those Lucky People, however, are just us here at the Forum.

Not just the lucky people.

Until I was fifty, I had nothing at all.
Was I a drug abuser? No. Never tried anything.
Was I a drunk? No.
Did I get in legal trouble? No.
Was I lazy? No.
Was I mentally ill? No.
Was I educated? Yes. I had two college degrees.
Did education do me any good? No.

I obeyed all the rules. I did what all the experts said was the right things to do. It didn’t matter. I got nothing.

I’m now on my 32nd job. Decades ago, you could get a job in a hardware store and be fairly sure of having a job for life. Today, you’re lucky if a job lasts four years, and most don’t last that long. Everything changes. Bank Vice-Presidents end up driving taxis. Careers that looked promising years ago no longer exist.

It was only after age fifty that I finally started saving a few dollars. Now I have Social Security and a little pile in the stock market.
But before that… marriage? Forget it. Kids? Are you kidding?

 

[Jim_Baur]

It is love that makes life worth living!

 

[cheezey]

Having recently experienced a near death illness I must believe that life is worth living because I apparently did not give up. Being a curious person, their is so much more that I want to know and learn and in so many different areas.
Since I don’t know when the curtain will fall, I plan to take every day as if it is my very last. Live, love learn.
I’ll have to see how it works out.

and still I wonder…

 

[4love2God]

Jim Baur posits a BIG piece of the Truth :** “It is love that makes life worth living!”**

Of all of the things that people can do with their time in Life, the MOST fruitful comes along with feeling Love.
Other ways to have your Life worth living include Obligation: You know that someone else (like your Kid) NEEDS you to care for her.
Or, obsession … that can stretch the mind to its Breaking Point in having a worthy Life.

Love is a nice emotion to feel … it is Free … it is Freeing … it is intimate … it lights up the Heart.

Knowing the solution is half of the Solution to the Problem: How can I make my Life meaningful?
So, then the next Step is creating (a bunch of) Opportunities to feel Love.
God is FREE to Love . . . He is there, just waiting to be Loved . . . in the meantime He loves us anyway.
Often, I can feel VERY powerful feelings of Love toward God … Lucky Me.
I fill up on God’s FREE Love . . . the WHOLE Universe is beautiful . . . All of God’s wonderful Creation.

So, it is good to practice Loving on God.
People don’t always want to be Loved . . . or even want to be Love-able
But, I will take some hard-to-Love person inside of my Heart … and watch him become warm and friendly.
And I instinctively will Love that person . . . Oh, I Love you.
There! I have just destroyed ONE more obstacle to my Goal : Forever loving all of God’s Creation.

 

[empther]

Of all of the things that people can do with their time in Life, the MOST fruitful comes along with feeling Love.

Love conquers all, hunh ?
Not in this world, pal. :crying:

… “History shows us what happens when revolutions fail. The dictators purge their people. Hundreds of thousands of North Koreans suspected of not being fully enthusiastic about defending the country will be tortured and killed. They will die cursing the name of Theresa Hartley.”
… This was the low. There is an ultimate crisis in many people’s lives. I had met mine.
… I lay on my bed crying. I thought of what Dorothy said in the witch’s castle: “I’m frightened, Auntie Em! I’m frightened!” This horrible place was no less a hell.
… I slept fitfully. I fantasized about just leaving without a word, going back home and forgetting about the world. I couldn’t do that. I couldn’t do anything. I was giving up hope.

 

[cheezey]

i love bunches. and still i wonder…

 

[4love2God]

empther : picks on ONE part of my Post : "Of all of the things that people can do with their time in Life, the MOST fruitful comes along with feeling Love."

Then, he gives answer that was FAR from what I said (and, in fact, I agree with him) :** “Love conquers all, hunh ? Not in this world, pal.”**

Hey, cut me some slack. I’m from out of Town.

Love certainly does NOT conquer all (or even Most).
But, more importantly, Love is NOT a part of many people’s Life experience.
These people KNOW that Love is Bogus . . . or, insincere . . . or, just over-Blown.
It is easy to Mock (and Hate) something you don’t have (but, would LIKE to have, IF this was a Perfect World … but it is NOT Perfect).

Or, people will convince themselves that they would NEVER want Love in their Life.
And, in some ways that is the Best thing to do.
Why open your Heart for a little while, only to have that person STOP Loving you???

Then, you have to Bleed all over again (and take years to get over that new self-inflicted Pain … you opened your Heart, stupid. NEVER Again).
A colossal waste (of Time, and Emotional Trauma).
So, keep your Heart closed to Love … be careful to keep enough distance from others.
Then, Life is Worth Living . . . . . . or, Life is closer to being worth Living

 

[4love2God]

empther is in Pain for the existence he has had to endure.
This makes it pretty-darn easy to have a Life not (quite) worth living.

I was wondering why you said :** “if it makes the lucky people in this world reconsider the situation of the miserable people who never get a break, who are helpless and hopeless, and who just can’t win no matter what they do.”**
I thought that you were making the case for someone else … not for your own Life.

But, then I finally got the connection, when you just confided:
"Until I was fifty, I had nothing at all.
Was I a drug abuser? No. Never tried anything.
Was I a drunk? No. . . .
Was I educated? Yes. I had two college degrees.
Did education do me any good? No."

And, "I’m now on my 32nd job… Today, you’re lucky if a job lasts four years… Careers that looked promising years ago no longer exist."

I thank you for sharing such a deep Pain in your Life with the Forum.
I am certainly sorry to hear that you had 50 desolate years in your Life.
I was glad to hear that things finally picked up (a bit) after then:
"It was only after age fifty that I finally started saving a few dollars.
Now I have Social Security and a little pile in the stock market."

Seeing how empty you see your Life as, I hope that now that you have some Financial security, it is of some comfort.
After all, you say Money is Everything.
Well, if that is everything that you’ve got (finally), enjoy it, with my Best Wishes for more Money to come (make your “pile in the stock market” Grow and GROW).

I, too, have had many jobs over my working history. Though, in my case, I usually got bored with the jobs, and looked elsewhere for employment.
This has occasionally left me with NO money. And, it is NOT Fun for me to have no money.
I know several people who have worked at the same job for decades, and I understand how comforting it is to know that THAT part of their Life is not going to change.

Part of having a “permanent” job is the security it provides, the stability it provides (one less thing to obsess about Losing) :
The bills will be paid … I can do something FUN for myself … I can handle any emergency which arises.
If a person values his feeling like this, then his Life is more worth living.

 

[empther]

Seeing how empty you see your Life as, I hope that now that you have some Financial security, it is of some comfort.
After all, you say Money is Everything.

Don’t get me wrong.

I didn’t cave in and go nuts.
I didn’t respond with crime, or getting mad at anybody or anything like that.
In fact, my sister said I had an interesting life, and I have to agree with her.
In fact, I’m very proud of how I performed. I was an alright guy, and I survived. It was still me when I looked in the mirror this morning.

But as far as enjoyment, my life was a waste. I played by the rules but it seemed nobody else did. If I had it to do over again, I would do everything differently. No college. A total waste of time. Just go straight to work at eighteen, save a few pennies and invest in the stock market for fifty years. I’d be a millionaire by now.

 

[meltzerboy]

Don’t get me wrong.

I didn’t cave in and go nuts.
I didn’t respond with crime, or getting mad at anybody or anything like that.
In fact, my sister said I had an interesting life, and I have to agree with her.
In fact, I’m very proud of how I performed. I was an alright guy, and I survived. It was still me when I looked in the mirror this morning.

But as far as enjoyment, my life was a waste. I played by the rules but it seemed nobody else did. If I had it to do over again, I would do everything differently. No college. A total waste of time. Just go straight to work at eighteen, save a few pennies and invest in the stock market for fifty years. I’d be a millionaire by now.

You might be a millionaire by now, but, as Captain Kirk questioned, “At what cost?” College is NOT a waste of time: it gives professors like me something to do. Seriously, some of the things I still remember learning in college (over 40 years ago now) are things I could not fully appreciate at the time, such as my freshman philosophy and English literature classes, as well as classes in art history and music. The humanities were and are looked at by many people as useless and frivolous, but while mysteriously lying dormant for a long period of time, they shape the personality of many students for decades to come.

 

[jimmy]

Many decades ago Bishop Fulton Seen published a book titled Life Is Worth Living.

To some in this forum, that proposition is doubtful because we live on a hostile planet in a hostile universe.

European existentialist philosophers (like Sartre and Camus) back in the 30s and 40s were busy exploring the attractions of suicide.

Yet in Genesis, at the end of each day of Creation, God saw that what he had done was good.

The problem of evil is often invoked as an aspect of Creation that God is responsible for.

What say you? Is life really worth living?

How hostile really are the Earth and the Universe?

To be or to not be. That is the question. Someone might say that it is better to not exist, but they still fight to continue their existence as long as possible. I don’t think there is anyone on this planet who wants to cease existing. Their life might be hard, and they might even attempt suicide but I don’t think they want to cease to exist. It is a self contradictory desire because to have the desire implies life. You look at these people who seem to have a suicidal fantasy, like the shooters in all the school shootings. They have to go down with a big bang. They have to make their statement before they go. But if they truly wanted to cease to exist, the most logical thing to do seems to be to go silently. Do it in a way that no one even notices, because there is really no point in wasting all the energy on such a big show if you truly want to cease to exist. It makes no sense.

 

[jimmy]

I think life is worth living when you are young, middle-aged, and old provided you are in relatively good health. In the case of very old people in poor, deteriorating health, I’m not so sure life is worth living, especially when they are aware of the continuous, gradual deterioration. I’m not even discussing the lives of people who suffer with debilitating diseases throughout their lives, only the normal aging process in the latter stages of life. Of course, there are aids, such as faith, family, friends, activities; but I know of too many suffering elderly people who would rather die sooner than later, not to mention the horrific pain and stress felt by family members who care for the sick and elderly.

I think that all depends on perspective. The very old person may be depressed about what he has lost and what is to come, but I doubt he wants to die. There are many people who are born with nothing, or who have everything taken from them by life but they find a way to be happy. You see examples of people without arms or legs (or both) who participate in sports or learn to be good with an art. Or they might be a motivational speaker. They find a way to be happy.

 

[jimmy]

It is of immense value,
if it makes the lucky people in this world reconsider the situation of the miserable people who never get a break, who are helpless and hopeless, and who just can’t win no matter what they do.

Or didn’t you know there are such people?

I think your phrase about money being happiness, and money being love and all needs to be reconsidered. Studies have shown that money can contribute to a persons happiness up to a certain point, and that is about the point where they can pay all their bills and take care of the basics of life. I think it was about 50,000 dollars. But much beyond that it has no effect. So it isn’t really accurate to say that many is happiness.

 

[meltzerboy]

I think your phrase about money being happiness, and money being love and all needs to be reconsidered. Studies have shown that money can contribute to a persons happiness up to a certain point, and that is about the point where they can pay all their bills and take care of the basics of life. I think it was about 50,000 dollars. But much beyond that it has no effect. So it isn’t really accurate to say that many is happiness.

You’re right, and it may even have a negative effect on some people past the point of necessity and a few luxuries. This curvilinear relationship between money and happiness is caused by the hedonic treadmill (“Keeping up with the Joneses”).

 

[meltzerboy]

I think that all depends on perspective. The very old person may be depressed about what he has lost and what is to come, but I doubt he wants to die. There are many people who are born with nothing, or who have everything taken from them by life but they find a way to be happy. You see examples of people without arms or legs (or both) who participate in sports or learn to be good with an art. Or they might be a motivational speaker. They find a way to be happy.

Again, you’re right. However, many of these heroic people are younger. That is not to say most of the elderly are miserable, but a significant portion of them are, especially due to loneliness caused by the death of a spouse, siblings, and friends, as well as poor and progressively deteriorating physical health. Caring family members can help, but often they too become miserable, exhausted, and stressed out from the caregiving.

 

[Robertanthony]

I don’t like blanket statements, the experience of life is vastly diiferent from one person to the next: in school I barely knew a guy, a few years later i find out he had a mutlimedia company, which he ended up selling–>a millionaire before he reached 30. Whereas my experience of life has essentially been of not fitting in, not being enough, I’ve been told I was dumb, I’ve never believed in myself, always thought I was a loser waiting to be exposed, always thought I had nothing to contribute and that working dead-end, physically exhausting and boring jobs was my destiny, living a frustrating life teeming with anxiety and precarity was the Universe’s decree for me, so obviously for me life is not worth living. I’m not gifted for life, gifted for living, God has been very gracious in the last couple of years, but not quite the way I wanted nor to the extent I wanted. Empther is partially right about money: as someone with social anxiety, if I were alone money would do me no good, but with somebody to love and to be loved by, money literally makes the difference between me being burdened and sometimes being made hopeless by life versus me being genuinely happy to be alive. Looking at all the valleys and sunk heart in my adult life, money would have either solved or alleviated 99% of them. I think money as an antidepressant has made its mark (pun intended), poverty as a potent depressant has also made its mark. What I had to put into life, constantly going against my nature, my will, being where i didn’t want to be for hours upon hours, which end up being years versus what I got out of it is ludicrous, the worst form of investment anyone could pick. Of course all would be well, sort of, if 80 years of a tough life was all I had, but the reality is probably that there is a God who will determine at my death if i will be eternally happy or miserable. So, life is not worth living for me is all i can say. I’ve always felt like I was born on the wrong side of God’s will, with pathetic genes, cursed to a certain extent, money would lift the curse, the curse would swiftly obey like a fearful puppy, but usually people who can amass a great deal of money have something going for them, or have inherited or won the lottery, no such luck for me. Security , peace of mind, the door to most dreams, money is a many-splendored thing.