Is listening to Prayers same as Praying them?

[manonthemoon]

I am new to the Liturgy of the hours, and much of my day is spent in my car driving. I have the LOTH podcast from Divineoffice.Com I listen and say the parts I know or where I am asked to repeat after leader. Do you think this should be avoided? I do READ them when I can, I am sure it’s preferred, but would this be valid. Thanks,

MoM

 

[Vico]

I am new to the Liturgy of the hours, and much of my day is spent in my car driving. I have the LOTH podcast from Divineoffice.Com I listen and say the parts I know or where I am asked to repeat after leader. Do you think this should be avoided? I do READ them when I can, I am sure it’s preferred, but would this be valid. Thanks,

MoM

No, it is not the same. We can see what is more perfect from the requirement to gaining an indulgence. That is, for those that do not have a speech or hearing impediment, is verbal prayer. There should be some movement of the mouth, even if not audible.

 

[TwoNames]

No, it is not the same. We can see what is more perfect from the requirement to gaining an indulgence. That is, for those that do not have a speech or hearing impediment, is verbal prayer. There should be some movement of the mouth, even if not audible.

I sometimes pray without moving my lips. I’m lifting my heart to God through a prayer of Hail Mary let’s say. Is that not a prayer? (I honestly don’t know, but would like to understand). I thought lifting ones heart to God was a prayer.

 

[Vico]

I sometimes pray without moving my lips. I’m lifting my heart to God through a prayer of Hail Mary let’s say. Is that not a prayer? (I honestly don’t know, but would like to understand). I thought lifting ones heart to God was a prayer.

I am posting only on what the Church teaches is a more perfect form of prayer, vocal prayer.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I** listen** to the Holy Rosary, the Stations of the Cross and the Daily Mass (Internet) every morning while playing around on my computer but keeping a part of my mind on God. Learning to keep a part of your mind fixed on God throughout the day is what Contemplative Prayer is all about and is key. Concentrating fully on the prayers themselves does not work for me, and I get easily agitated. Even at Mass I try to keep my mind focused on Got, not usually paying close attention to anything else. I feel as if God is inside of me, and wants my full attention on Him alone.

 

[peter26]

I am new to the Liturgy of the hours, and much of my day is spent in my car driving. I have the LOTH podcast from Divineoffice.Com I listen and say the parts I know or where I am asked to repeat after leader. Do you think this should be avoided? I do READ them when I can, I am sure it’s preferred, but would this be valid. Thanks,

MoM

Saying the responses is basically what you would be doing if you said the LoTH in a group, which is accepted as a form of prayer (this is how monastic communities pray). It is also a similar approach to praying the Rosary in a group where a leader says the first part of the prayer and the people respond with the remainder.

 

[edward_george]

I am posting only on what the Church teaches is a more perfect form of prayer, vocal prayer.

Is that what the catechism says?

 

[XXI_4]

2700 Through his Word, God speaks to man. By words, mental or vocal, our prayer takes flesh. Yet it is most important that the heart should be present to him to whom we are speaking in prayer: “Whether or not our prayer is heard depends not on the number of words, but on the fervor of our souls.”

IN BRIEF

2720 The Church invites the faithful to regular prayer: daily prayers, the Liturgy of the Hours, Sunday Eucharist, the feasts of the liturgical year.

2721 The Christian tradition comprises three major expressions of the life of prayer: vocal prayer, meditation, and contemplative prayer. They have in common the recollection of the heart.

2722 Vocal prayer, founded on the union of body and soul in human nature, associates the body with the interior prayer of the heart, following Christ’s example of praying to his Father and teaching the Our Father to his disciples.

2723 Meditation is a prayerful quest engaging thought, imagination, emotion, and desire. Its goal is to make our own in faith the subject considered, by confronting it with the reality of our own life.

2724 Contemplative prayer is the simple expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gaze of faith fixed on Jesus, an attentiveness to the Word of God, a silent love. It achieves real union with the prayer of Christ to the extent that it makes us share in his mystery.

Link

 

[fred_conty]

The religious who have taken a vow to say the divine office every day are required to pray it vocally. Vocally means out loud in a group, or with the lips if said in private.

But those who have never taken a vow are not obliged to do this.

However the advantage of it being vocal is that it necessitates it being prayed in a slower manner. If not said vocally then it may be rushed thru since the mind is faster than the tongue.

If I were listening to the radio, I would base this on whether it was being done live or whether it is a recording. If live I wouldn’t have a problem with it since we can pray with others and distance is not a problem. But if a recording, then I would. Others may feel differently.

Also some of the indulgences connected to certain prayers require them to be said vocally, and not in thought only.

A prayer is legitimate said mentally only for that is raising our mind to God and speaking/listening to him. And some prayers are best if done mentally only…meditation, contemplation, conversation, biblical thought, indwelling …

When all is said and done, God looks at the heart.

 

[Vico]

Is that what the catechism says?

It is what is prescribed for obtaining a plenary indulgence in the norms for indulgences.

 

[edward_george]

It is what is prescribed for obtaining a plenary indulgence in the norms for indulgences.

And do you have a reference for that? Just because something is the “more perfect” way doesn’t mean that other ways are somehow vitiated by it. Besides, mental prayer is supposed to be a higher form of prayer than vocal. Vocal leads to mental, of course.

I would hope that listening to prayers is the same as praying them–and not just the physical act of listening to them, but uniting your heart and mind and intentions with what is being prayed. Otherwise, we’d not be praying for 90% of the Mass, wherein we’re listening to the priest or the deacon or the lector vocalizing everything. Furthermore, that would make it difficult on the many clergy out there who meet their obligation to pray the Liturgy of the Hours via apps, recordings, or even having someone read it to them. I’ve been in the car with a priest friend before and read the Office to him, and we both satisfed our obligation thereby even though he couldn’t have moved his lips to the text I was reading or given responses other than to answer the “Glory be.” As for recordings of the rosary or chaplet, I don’t see any difference between it being said live or being recorded; the end result is still the same–words are spoken somehow, you are listening to them and uniting your intentions to them. That seems to be the key in all of this.

-ACEGC

 

[Vico]

And do you have a reference for that? Just because something is the “more perfect” way doesn’t mean that other ways are somehow vitiated by it. Besides, mental prayer is supposed to be a higher form of prayer than vocal. Vocal leads to mental, of course.

I would hope that listening to prayers is the same as praying them–and not just the physical act of listening to them, but uniting your heart and mind and intentions with what is being prayed. Otherwise, we’d not be praying for 90% of the Mass, wherein we’re listening to the priest or the deacon or the lector vocalizing everything. Furthermore, that would make it difficult on the many clergy out there who meet their obligation to pray the Liturgy of the Hours via apps, recordings, or even having someone read it to them. I’ve been in the car with a priest friend before and read the Office to him, and we both satisfed our obligation thereby even though he couldn’t have moved his lips to the text I was reading or given responses other than to answer the “Glory be.” As for recordings of the rosary or chaplet, I don’t see any difference between it being said live or being recorded; the end result is still the same–words are spoken somehow, you are listening to them and uniting your intentions to them. That seems to be the key in all of this.

-ACEGC

In the Manual of Indulgences (USCCB 2005), the requirements for the plenary indulgence of the Marian rosary use the words “recite” and “vocal prayer”. Recite is audible according to the dictionary.

In the general norms we see that the deaf and mute are not bound to this in public or private (N26 below) [emphasis mine]. They are very specific here to detail the requirement of recitation, with an grant for the deaf and mute to “recite the prayers mentally”.

N22. An indulgence attached to a prayer can be acquired by reciting the prayer in any language, provided that the translation is approved by the competent ecclesiastical authority.
N23. To gain an indulgence it is sufficient to recite the prayer alternately with a companion or to follow it mentally while it is being recited by another.
N26. Both the deaf and the mute can gain indulgences attached to public prayers if, together with the other faithful praying in the same place, they devoutly raise their mind and affections to God; regarding private prayers it is sufficient for them to recite the prayers mentally or express them with signs, or simply to read them without pronouncing the words.

You might have noticed from the Catechism that the emphasis is on the perfect form of prayer, 2703 states that “He also wants the external expression that associates the body with interior prayer, for it renders him that perfect homage which is his due.”

In a plenary indulgence we strive for a perfect expression, falling short we have a partial indulgence.

 

[zab]

I am new to the Liturgy of the hours, and much of my day is spent in my car driving. I have the LOTH podcast from Divineoffice.Com I listen and say the parts I know or where I am asked to repeat after leader. Do you think this should be avoided? I do READ them when I can, I am sure it’s preferred, but would this be valid. Thanks,

MoM

That is a wonderful way to pray when you are traveling, to listen to the prayers on your podcast and respond to the parts that you know. The meaning of prayer is to call the attention of your mind and heart to God.

 

[edward_george]

Again, prayer isn’t as much about physical action as it is about intention of mind and heart. The question was not whether we have to recite the rosary to gain a plenary indulgence, but rather whether listening to prayers was the same as reciting them. I see no reason why it wouldn’t be, again. It’s all about intentions. If I babble through the rosary with no mental engagement of it, and do so out loud, have I really striven for perfect expression and gained said indulgence? I’ve recited it at that point. I would say it’s better, in terms of the quality of prayer, to pray it silently with focus and intention than to say it out loud with little to no mental engagement.

-ACEGC

 

[zab]

Link

 

[Vico]

Again, prayer isn’t as much about physical action as it is about intention of mind and heart. The question was not whether we have to recite the rosary to gain a plenary indulgence, but rather whether listening to prayers was the same as reciting them. I see no reason why it wouldn’t be, again. It’s all about intentions. If I babble through the rosary with no mental engagement of it, and do so out loud, have I really striven for perfect expression and gained said indulgence? I’ve recited it at that point. I would say it’s better, in terms of the quality of prayer, to pray it silently with focus and intention than to say it out loud with little to no mental engagement.

-ACEGC

Mental prayer is not the same as reciting because of external expression. Vocal prayer (recited) also requires mental engagement. As the norms mention for indulgence there exists at the time some vocal expression because “it is sufficient to recite the prayer alternately with a companion or to follow it mentally while it is being recited by another.”

CC 703 “He also wants the external expression that associates the body with interior prayer, for it renders him that perfect homage which is his due.”

 

[ccmcmg]

If you are praying along with it, it’s prayer. I believe that anyone tells you that you aren’t praying unless it’s out loud, they are wrong. We ‘pray the Mass’, yet we don’t say every word with the priest, do we?

I pray silently many times. It doesn’t make it lesser; it makes it different than vocal prayer. It’s intentional. My prayer isn’t perfect; however it’s MY prayer, not anyone else’s. I do the best I can. Sometimes that’s silently.

As for the indulgence with the Rosary, it does require vocal prayer with others. Not all Indulgences require this, nor should that be implied.

My prayer and conversation with God at bedtime, should it be spoken out loud, would keep my husband awake, or wake him up. I pray often while around others; should I interrupt their conversations to do so? So since my prayer is in my mind, silent, is it less? NO IT IS NOT. Are God’s words to us less, if they cannot be heard with ears?

If you want to pray out loud, do it. If you want to pray in your mind, do it. Just PRAY. And quit judging the ‘worth’ of other peoples’ prayers. Just stop.