Is love really the answer? I mean, for real, really?

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I am having this…kind of epiphany. Please if anyone could let me know if I am right here, or if I am missing something, etc. I want to know what you think. I am not sure I am confusing things or making it too easy.

It has occurred to me- and I know I must not be the first to do so, I’m not a special snowflake, and perhaps everyone else has realized this but me, if I am right- but it seems to me that love really is the answer. I mean, really. Not just in some cheesy pop culture way.

What are the greatest commandments? To love the Lord our God, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. I have read this before, that if we do these two things, we keep all the other commandments. To love God is to obey His teachings, to love man is to keep them as well- look at the 10 commandments. The bulk of 'em are things that specifically hurt our neighbor- stealing, coveting, killing, bearing false witness.

And if we love God with all we are, as we must first and foremost, we WILL love our neighbor, for love of Him who loves them (and us), too. We will love them because He loves them, and it pleases Him when we love them, and we WANT to please Him because we want to please the ones we love (ask any man who’s waxed his back for his wife.)

And then we have faith, hope, charity- and the greatest of these is charity. Of course! It looks like all virtue flows from it and is meaningless without it. What is faith devoid of love? It is a dead faith, it is the faith that is barren and without works, the tree without good fruit. It is love that bears the good fruit and breathes life into faith! The two seem to be inseparable to be in the state of grace. That is what is it is looking like to me. Am I right? Taking it too far? Oversimplifying?

And how do we love Him? We follow Jesus. We do as He tells us, through His Word and through His Church. We follow the Gospel as the map He has given us. His whole life is a manual of what it is to love, how we are to love. But it isn’t enough for Him! He gives us all of creation to reveal Himself to us, that we will recognize the voice of our Shepherd when He calls and follow Him. Every pebble and every platypus, in addition to every old lady who rams her shopping cart into me at Wal-mart.

How can we ever escape Him when He pursues us so relentlessly, so ardently? How can we ever say “no”? But we do, yet He is always ready to take us back. He lives what He preaches. He tells us to forgive, and He forgives. He tells us to love, and He loves. But He forgives and loves perfectly, unlike us. We must strive to be more like Him just like we strive emulate the qualities we like in the people we admire, be they people we know on earth or the saints.

So…it all comes down to love, doesn’t it? And we can’t love who we don’t even know. I am ashamed to say that I need to build a relationship, one of love, instead of fearing and dreading the false construct of my mind that sits waiting in judgment and keeping a log of my failings to condemn me with. I confess to you, my brothers and sisters, that I do not love Him like I should. Sometimes I question whether I love Him at all, though I know that is my usual anxiety talking. I do not love others as I should, I do not live my oh-so Christian lip service. No more. I want to strip myself like St. Francis and throw in my lot with Love who is not loved. After all, I have nothing to bring anyway except myself and what little merit or virtue I may have accidentally scraped together over time. Thank God our Lady is hanging onto that for me (de Montfort reference :o )

I’m sorry, this is long and yes, self-centered in a way. But am I right here? Is love the secret? Is it the missing piece of the puzzle that leaves so many lukewarm Catholics? Is this too hippy-dippy to be for real…meaning, can it be that easy (and yet mind numbingly difficult…Love is not loved…those words suddenly mean the weight of a thousand worlds, if you’ll forgive the theatrics for a moment.) Please puncture my balloon if you have the needle, I need to know.
 
I have heard similar thoughts, and I agree. I don’t think it’s crunchy or hippie-ish to feel this way, though. I guess it would be if you go by our culture’s typical definition of love, but the Christian meaning of love—devotion, sacrifice, and commitment with or without the warm fuzzy feelings—it is really very simple to see that love is the root of all things good and glorious, be it God’s love that saves us or our love that sanctifies us when we put it to good use.

But I think Jesus said it best in Matthew 22:36-40. He sure is an eloquent speaker. 👍
 
Love IS the key. And what is love? Total giving and total giving up of one’s very desires, being and soul to another – and that “other” is God.

Once you have stripped yourself of all pride, desire and attachment for everything and submitted your mind, heart and soul completely to God and desire nothing but His will, you have come to know union with Him and you have come to know true love.
 
Pray4Life said:
I am having this…kind of epiphany. Please if anyone could let me know if I am right here, or if I am missing something, etc. I want to know what you think. I am not sure I am confusing things or making it too easy.

It has occurred to me- and I know I must not be the first to do so, I’m not a special snowflake, and perhaps everyone else has realized this but me, if I am right- but it seems to me that love really is the answer. I mean, really. Not just in some cheesy pop culture way.

What are the greatest commandments? To love the Lord our God, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. I have read this before, that if we do these two things, we keep all the other commandments. To love God is to obey His teachings, to love man is to keep them as well- look at the 10 commandments. The bulk of 'em are things that specifically hurt our neighbor- stealing, coveting, killing, bearing false witness.

And if we love God with all we are, as we must first and foremost, we WILL love our neighbor, for love of Him who loves them (and us), too. We will love them because He loves them, and it pleases Him when we love them, and we WANT to please Him because we want to please the ones we love (ask any man who’s waxed his back for his wife.)

And then we have faith, hope, charity- and the greatest of these is charity. Of course! It looks like all virtue flows from it and is meaningless without it. What is faith devoid of love? It is a dead faith, it is the faith that is barren and without works, the tree without good fruit. It is love that bears the good fruit and breathes life into faith! The two seem to be inseparable to be in the state of grace. That is what is it is looking like to me. Am I right? Taking it too far? Oversimplifying?

And how do we love Him? We follow Jesus. We do as He tells us, through His Word and through His Church. We follow the Gospel as the map He has given us. His whole life is a manual of what it is to love, how we are to love. But it isn’t enough for Him! He gives us all of creation to reveal Himself to us, that we will recognize the voice of our Shepherd when He calls and follow Him. Every pebble and every platypus, in addition to every old lady who rams her shopping cart into me at Wal-mart.

How can we ever escape Him when He pursues us so relentlessly, so ardently? How can we ever say “no”? But we do, yet He is always ready to take us back. He lives what He preaches. He tells us to forgive, and He forgives. He tells us to love, and He loves. But He forgives and loves perfectly, unlike us. We must strive to be more like Him just like we strive emulate the qualities we like in the people we admire, be they people we know on earth or the saints.

So…it all comes down to love, doesn’t it? And we can’t love who we don’t even know. I am ashamed to say that I need to build a relationship, one of love, instead of fearing and dreading the false construct of my mind that sits waiting in judgment and keeping a log of my failings to condemn me with. I confess to you, my brothers and sisters, that I do not love Him like I should. Sometimes I question whether I love Him at all, though I know that is my usual anxiety talking. I do not love others as I should, I do not live my oh-so Christian lip service. No more. I want to strip myself like St. Francis and throw in my lot with Love who is not loved. After all, I have nothing to bring anyway except myself and what little merit or virtue I may have accidentally scraped together over time. Thank God our Lady is hanging onto that for me (de Montfort reference :o )

I’m sorry, this is long and yes, self-centered in a way. But am I right here? Is love the secret? Is it the missing piece of the puzzle that leaves so many lukewarm Catholics? Is this too hippy-dippy to be for real…meaning, can it be that easy (and yet mind numbingly difficult…Love is not loved…those words suddenly mean the weight of a thousand worlds, if you’ll forgive the theatrics for a moment.) Please puncture my balloon if you have the needle, I need to know.
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👍 Yes, yes, yes! In fact it can be said that mans’ original sin was to reject love (God is love-1John4) as being the highest good in the universe, instead preferring himself to God (the sin of pride). Our job, Gods’ intention for us-is to be perfected in love-to turn us fully back to that greatest good and true source of our happiness and away from the created things which distract us from Him. Then we will truly love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength. This is a process which is not nearly as easy as it sounds and is made possible only by Gods’ grace. At any rate I believe our faith can be summed up by what you’re getting at-love is what our faith’s all about- how could it be otherwise, in fact?

**If you love Me, keep My commandments.” John 14:15

This is my command: Love each other. John 15:17

Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Rom 13:10**
 
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

**To the Sacred Heart of Jesus through the Immaculate Heart of Mary **

Remember, O Most gracious Virgin Mary that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother. To thee do I come, before thee I kneel, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer them. Amen.

Other maybe wrong thoughts:

Maybe God through Mary always desires to give us what we ask for and ultimately intends to bring all souls into union with him - some by force since they will not come willingly no matter what he does and some otherwise.

Perhaps the meaning of the prayer: O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls into heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.

Maybe that is why God through Mary allows the one that Mary has enmity with so much free rein - because God through Mary loves him too.

Maybe that is why the greatest gifts from heaven are crosses according to St. Louis Mary de Montfort in
True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin montfort.org.uk/Writings/TrueDev.html
Perhaps, because God through Mary wants us to have an opportunity to prove our own love to God through Mary and there is no way to prove love except to give when you are getting nothing back. 🤷 Because someone who only gives when he knows exactly his return is not showing love:eek: that’s a business deal

And maybe the reason why we are in this earth full of sorrows is because God through Mary wants to raise us up to his level since that was what Eve desired when she ate the apple. And why heaven has many souls but they are not in marriage with each other is maybe because that is what Adam suggested he wanted when he said “this women you gave to me.”

And another reason why we have such crosses when we love God through Mary is so that he through Mary can use us to convince our brethren of his amazing love :eek: and to teach them how to love like we love by our example that is often noted by them but unnoted by us

To all those who wonder - I have personally experienced in my life that when we love our neighbor passionately, without getting anything back in return, God through Mary gives this love back to us in full measure more than we asked or imagined later, in the future, when we have almost forgotten that we ever gave so much to that neighbor.

St. Faustina’s Diary: **Divine Mercy in My Soul **saint-faustina.com/Diary/DMIMS1.shtml is actually the best example I have ever seen of what pure and passionate love of God through Mary is. She is a (to the partial extent that I have thus far read) a living witness to St. John of the Cross’s Dark Night of the Soul: ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/dark_night.html Warning: the Diary may scare and challenge you to further love of God through Mary and neighbor. I haven’t finished it because it scared me so much. St. Therese of Liseux’s: The Story of a Soul is also inspirational: gutenberg.org/etext/16772

Maybe God through Mary wants us to console him is the same reason why sometimes only our spouse or Mother can console us when we are treated unfairly.

Excerpt: * The Ardent Desire Jesus Feels to Be With Us *
Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus en.wikisource.org/wiki/Devotion_to_the_Sacred_Heart_of_Jesus#FIRST_POINT._.E2.80.94_The_ardent_desire_Jesus_Christ_feels_to_be_with_us.

Online Adoration of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament louisville-catholic.net/WebCameras/AdorationChapel/tabid/825/Default.aspx

**Secret of the Rosary ** montfort.org.uk/Writings/Rosary.html

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
St Augustine stated it in an even more radical way:
**
Love, and do as you like.**
 
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

For the Sacred Heart of Jesus through the Immaculate Heart of Mary

As unloving as I am, growth of love came down to this order for me:
  1. love of things precious in the world’s eyes - an ivy league education + weak love of others
  2. love of self and personal happiness + above
  3. faith + above
  4. above + strong love of others
  5. above + love of God
Maybe I am only now today discovering why St. Francis of Assisi said Love itself is not loved.

And maybe here is my order in growth of love of others:
  1. love of starving abused people in Africa and Latin America + love of beautiful, intelligent, sexy, rich people + love of minority children
  2. love of above + love of loving people + love of disabled people
  3. love of above + love of devout Christians
  4. love of above + love of African American people
  5. love of above + love of seeking/weak Christians
  6. love of all the above + radiant, passionate, self-sacrificial love of a person I thought was a perfect human being: powerful, beautiful, intelligent, sexy, rich, smart, strong, devout Christian who spent time building up the Church with a Catholic background
  7. love of all the above + love of family that I take for granted
  8. love of all the above + love for Immaculate Heart of Mary
    True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin montfort.org.uk/Writings/TrueDev.html
    **Secret of the Rosary ** montfort.org.uk/Writings/Rosary.html
    DAILY MASS
  9. love of all the above + love for the unborn, prisoners, homeless
  10. love of all the above + greater love for Mary and the Sacred Heart of Jesus
    Preparation for 33 day consecration to the Blessed Virgin saintlouisdemontfort.com/consecration.cfm
    Reflections on True Devotion to Mary by His Holiness Pope John Paul II http://www.michaeljournal.org/montfort.htm
    **The Glories of Mary, ** by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, one of the 33 Doctors of the Catholic Church, explains Hail Holy Queen http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories.htm
    On the Dolors of Mary by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, one of the 33 Doctors of the Catholic Church, explains the sufferings of Our Lady http://writer.zoho.com/public/immaculate/Seven-dolors
    Marialis Cultus (Apostolic Exhortation for the Right Ordering and Development of Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary of His Holiness, February 2, 1974 by His Holiness Pope Paul VI ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6MARIAL.HTM
Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus en.wikisource.org/wiki/Devotion_to_the_Sacred_Heart_of_Jesus#FIRST_POINT._.E2.80.94_The_ardent_desire_Jesus_Christ_feels_to_be_with_us.
Divine Mercy Chaplet ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm
Rosary Confraternity Enrollment rosary-center.org/nconform.htm (As Pope Leo XIII said in his encyclical on the Confraternity, *“Whenever a person fulfills his obligation of reciting the Rosary according to the rule of the Confraternity, he includes in his intentions all its members and they render him the same service many times over.” *
Cathechism of the Catholic Church vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

CONFESSION
  1. love of homosexuals and atheists
  2. love of God through Mary + Holy Father + souls in purgatory
  3. the tiniest, weakest, smallest love of the one Mary has enmity with then it went away
  4. discovery of God’s radical and intense love for me + the slightest love of humility and suffering
Still growing though, still learning how to love second by second 👍 :eek:

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
We’re not commanded to fear. In fact it’s sort of ironic, isn’t it, that we would actually need to be* commanded* simply to love?
 
**“God can not be grasped except through love.” ** Author of the “Cloud of Unknowing.”

The OP’s post is expressing this in a broader way, and right on.

God Bless
Jim
 
dcrowmik said:
Love IS the key. And what is love? Total giving and total giving up of one’s very desires, being and soul to another – and that “other” is God.

Once you have stripped yourself of all pride, desire and attachment for everything and submitted your mind, heart and soul completely to God and desire nothing but His will, you have come to know union with Him and you have come to know true love.
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My own bolding, since that is the part that I don’t seem to be able to get past.:rolleyes:
 
Pray4Life,

I think you’d like The Spiritual Canticle, by St. John of the Cross, which is all about love.

Here’s a pice from the introduction, and you can read the entire book on line at the link.
A Story About Love
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In the form of an eclogue, the poem tells a story of love between two lovers, bridegroom and bride. The story unfolds through dialogue between them. In this way John recounts, somewhat mysteriously, the history of his love for Christ, a love in response to Christ’s love for him. Essentially dynamic, the love moves forward, marking degrees or stages of John’s spiritual life, which develops along lines parallel with love and dependent on it. This movement of love sustains the poem and supplies the direction and framework for the stanzas. Although the verses uncover a personal story by describing the advance in love, they do not set forth explicitly every moment of communion with Christ. Nor do they present a precise temporal perspective; they do not reveal in their sequence a progressive chronological order, verse by verse, stanza by stanza. The development appears rather in blocks of stanzas that focus on some of the vibrant moments in the life of divine love.
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The bride speaks in 32 of the stanzas, the bridegroom in 7, and creatures in 1. The stanzas contain both narration and supplication. The bride tells of her anxious search for her beloved, describes her encounters with him, the qualities of the beloved, and the gifts she receives from him. She beseeches the beloved to surrender and reveal himself, to free her from her enemies, from obstacles, and from all ties that impede union with him; she begs above all for a greater communion with him.
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The bridegroom speaks at three places in the poem where a shift in the action occurs. His words bring about the union that the bride seeks; they have transforming power. He also gives himself with his words, in peace, solitude, and unreserved love,
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karmel.at/ics/john/cn_1.html
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In Christ Jesus
Jim
 
Love is not an emotion (though that frequently accompanies it).

It’s an act of the will.

Love towards God is an act of the will to do what He commands, even if you don’t like it.

Love towards neighbor is an act of the will to do what is best for your neighbor–again, even if you don’t like it.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Love towards God is an act of the will to do what He commands, even if you don’t like it.
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And total union with God, which is, thus, total love, means that whatever God’s will is you will want to do it – no matter what it is – and you will have no dislike for it at all.
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies. I’m glad I’m not veering off wildly into the land of fuzzy pink bunnies and trying to pass it off as something looking like theology. I just can’t say how amazing this whole idea is, and yet I have the strange feeling I’m the last one to get the memo so it’s a little embarrassing :o

It’s like love gives it all a point, everything is bound together by this common thread and finally makes actual sense, life is more than hoping desperately you get that one last confession in before you die. If we keep our eyes on love, on loving God, on knowing Who it is we love- we’ll be ok. When we keep our eyes on ourselves and our own desires and interests, divorced from the context of love of God…in other words, when we love ourselves in place of God- that’s when it all falls apart.

Put a little more concretely…I feel this sense of relief that I don’t need to know the finer points of every aspect of moral theology to have any hope of making it through this life without ending up in hell. To put it bluntly. It’s impossible to know it all and be prepared for every situation and have time to consult a priest before every decision, and it’s impossible to walk into a confessional within 5 minutes of every idiotic mistake, and it just stinks having trouble with scruples (as I do) and always wondering just where I messed up and how badly. But boiling it all down to its most basic, root component- then the important thing is a correct understanding of God’s love for us and the love we are to have for Him. After all, if we love Him, and we know the One we love, we know what will displease Him even if we don’t know the exact definition of the sin or have the relevant Catechism reference to verify. Love over legalism? It might be a harder conversion than my last, from Baptist to Catholic. (And if I’m wrong on any of THAT, please tell me, too!)

But thank you for the replies and for listening to me “talk out loud.” I am starting to think I did not even understand my own religion.
 
I don’t know if this has been recommended to the Original Poster, but I would recommend that they read Pope Benedict’s first encyclical, entitled “God Is Love”. That encyclical really brought me back to my faith:thumbsup: .

God Is Love
(Also in book form…because reading that much from a computer is not fun.)
 
Pray4Life

you have it right on!

Remember, a couple things here.

One, you did not come upon this truth yourself. It was revealed to you, through the Holy Spirit.

Also, as you love God and feel His presence in your life, you will be transformed through His grace, into being more and more like Christ, in that you will love as He loved.

St. John of the Cross says that the lover takes on the characteristics of the beloved. So will we, who love Christ. We will take on His characteristics, in that will be able to love others, as He loves. But remember, it was Christ who gave you this gift, you didn’t do anything on your own to develop it, except to be open to Christ. Humility is the virtue that feeds true love.

The last point you should be aware of, to the degree that you love, you will be persecuted. Not so much by non-believers, but more so, by those who think of themselves as good Catholics and Christians.

Your openness to love others will be seen as compromising your faith with non-orthodox beliefs. You can be sure, you will be attacked for this. You’ll even be accused of promoting anti-Catholic ideas. I can almost guarantee it.

However, when this happens remember Jesus words, “when you are persecuted because of my name, rejoice and know, that I was persecuted before you.”

God Bless
Jim
 
Pray4Life said:
I am having this…kind of epiphany.
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It’s a very good epiphany … head screwed on correctly. Head and heart DEFINITELY connected. 😃
Pray4Life said:
**So…it all comes down to love, doesn’t it? **
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Yes, that is the kernel of all religion. The kernel of all spirituality.
Pray4Life said:
And we can’t love who we don’t even know.
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Yes, you understand that love is time, talents and resources, effort put into a relationship with LOVE as it’g goal, love as its object.

Love is essentially selflessness, making space for the other within you.
Pray4Life said:
I am ashamed to say that I need to build a relationship
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Don’t be ashamed, Love is waiting for you.

Love says, “Do not be afraid, I am with you; I have called you by your name you are MINE”

You are Mine and I am YOURS.

The divine invitation is there, as St Francis says.
Pray4Life said:
. Sometimes I question whether I love Him at all, though I know that is my usual anxiety talking.
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Yes, that’s right; you cannot love what you don’t know, so put time in. Loving Him.

Here is a unique grace to pray for: Pray to God that he gives you love for God. Very few people ask for this grace.
 
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