Is lying ever ok?

[Irishmom2]

Okay then, @Josethecatholic, it looks like you already had the answers to your question, so, not sure what you expect anyone to say.

 

[Josethecatholic]

Okay then, @Josethecatholic, it looks like you already had the answers to your question, so, not sure what you expect anyone to say.

Dialogue, I also want to see an official Church document addressing the exception to the rules on when it’s ok to lie, because many secular people do attack or find it troubling to believe that lying is always a sin when logic seems to indicate there are certain situations where it would be justified.

 

[VonDerTann]

Part of the reason I watch these threads is because someone will invariably come up with a new example of deceit that is not immoral. You’ve given one of these.

 

[Wampa]

I’ll make the same contribution to this as I do every time this topic reoccurs and follows the same path…

I recommend the Catholic Answers article ‘Is Lying Ever Right? ’ for a nice analysis of the topic. I especially find the ‘someone who has the right to know the truth’ factor to be key to wade through the morality of the topic and apply it in real life.

That article will also explain why you see the ‘right to know’ language in some versions of the catechism, but not in the current version (I wish it was there).

 

[OddBird]

I hope I’m not derailing the thread, but…

Is @(name removed by moderator)'s example deceit ?

I am a chaplain in nursing homes and this is something I’m confronted with too.

Part of the problem, I think, is that some elderly people with cognitive issues do not live in the same reality than the rest of us any longer. When I go along with what they say, I do this because to them, that world they live in is deeply true. They are not voluntarily delusional, or constructing a world of lies because it makes them feel better. Actually, some psychiatrists who work with them think that they are revisiting “unfinished” episodes from their past so they can find closure and die at peace. Sometimes they do not have the ability to come back to our world any longer; I have the ability to “go visit” in theirs.

That said, the usual advice is to go along, like accepting to be taken for a metaphorical walk in their inner landscape with them as a guide, but not to invent things just because we think it could make them feel better, particularly promises (ie “I promise you will see your mom tomorrow”).

ETA : in your case, @(name removed by moderator), the way I was taught is to privilege questions. For example, instead of “You have to get plenty of rest for school tomorrow. I will make sure mom is ok, she wants you to rest”, you could try “What would your mom say ? Don’t you think she would want you to get enough sleep so you’re rested for tomorrow ?” That way, you go along, but you also don’t induce expectations you can’t fulfill.

 

[kapp19]

That section was edited out for the final draft of the CCC.

This topic is one that truly never dies. People interested can and should search the 1000 threads on it. Some good stuff out there.

No it’s not ever permitted to lie, but using language deceptively can be justified. The faculty of communication is then not perverted (like a verbal contraceptive act).

 

[LilyM]

I am wondering if it’s Always a sin a sin to lie even when you do so for a greater purpose for example if the enemy asks you for the password to your account so he can take it over you will never give it to him or if someone asks a teacher who is a shooter where her students are hiding she should lie shouldn’t she?

My own view is this - someone may not have a right to some piece of information but it doesn’t automatically follow that that you have the right to give them completely false information.

Equivocation, deflection or silence are always preferable to outright falsehood.

In the example given upthread - rather than saying ‘I did not hit your car’, I would simply say ‘I did not DAMAGE your car’ which is truthful as far as you know and just as likely to avert confrontation.

Of course it is easy to armchair quarterback these things, and very easy to say the wrong thing under pressure.

 

[kapp19]

Careful - seems like a very dubious conflation to compare some lies with CP. The 5th Commandment is not at all violated by capital punishment or war, as is evidenced by Scripture and confirmed by practically every other authority - but lying does not have the same character. It is sinful not merely for its “effects” but for what it actually “is,” namely, a perversion of the faculty of communication. It’s like contraception, but with words.