Is Marijuana a Mortal Sin?

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Thanks Michael as I do have an undiagnosed condition, though I have hope they will figure it out sooner rather than later… Again I really do appreciate the support…
Peace of Christ to you all
 
String Bean Duck,
Thank you for your comments. I don’t think I was trying to demonize the material matter of marijuana, I was definitely trying to discourage its use.

First question, lets say that marijuana was legal, should all those monks and nuns in cloistered monasteries and convents be allowed to start smoking weed there?

Michael.
 
sum 1 sent me a message about Irv and i accidently deleted it sorry i didnt get to read the whole thing if you could resend it id be happy to reply.

youtube.com/watch?v=B1NggzEkltM

I didnt mean to say Irv was a Catholic, I was referring to myself sorry for the confusion… I was showing that IRV has used cannabis as a medicine from the government for over 25+ years and is a broker who handles millions of dollars (his reasonig must be there or he would have zero clients) a day and he tells all his clients that he has to use cannabis as a medicine… Somebody said that its impossible to read a book, make a pizzza etc etc while medicated this is just ridiculous and there are hundreds of thousands of americans who are just like Irv working hard and contributing to society just fine. Except they have to medicate illegally if they dont live in one of the 14 med states…
 
Catholic 102866, Yes Irv Rosenfeld is a Jew (the first ever federally funded marijuana patient) and denies the divinity of Christ. The main purpose of our reasoning (according to St. Augustine) is to know the truth that God reveals, Capax Dei. Just maybe, if Irv was to quit smoking so much marijuana he might part the fog so to speak and see Christ’s truth and respond properly to it.

I still want to know the answer to my question; if marijuana was made legal, should contemplative monks and nuns (in cloistered monasteries) be allowed to smoke marijuana there?

Michael.
 
michael7777 said:
String Bean Duck,
Thank you for your comments. I don’t think I was trying to demonize the material matter of marijuana, I was definitely trying to discourage its use.

First question, lets say that marijuana was legal, should all those monks and nuns in cloistered monasteries and convents be allowed to start smoking weed there?

Michael.
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I’m not sure. Those who have dedicated their whole life to serving the Bride of Christ especially those in certain orders, are asked to give up material things like alcohol and tobacco. With that said I don’t see how marijuana should be any different. On the other hand St. Fiacre who was dedicated Irish monk experimented with growing different types of plants and herbs. It’s also said he was given different types of plant material and seeds. He used these to find different methods to heal people and those seeking solitude and tranquility. Even if marijuana was not available to him, he very well may have used a variety of mind calming herbs and plants. If I were to become a priest(I’m leaning towards the married life at the moment) I would probably lead a life similar to St. Fiacre. There is so much of God’s beauty in nature and I find so much solitude being in my garden. Anyways that last bit’s off topic. To be honest, other than my opinions, I really can’t answer that question.
 
michael7777 said:
Catholic 102866, Yes Irv Rosenfeld is a Jew (the first ever federally funded marijuana patient) and denies the divinity of Christ. The main purpose of our reasoning (according to St. Augustine) is to know the truth that God reveals, Capax Dei. Just maybe, if Irv was to quit smoking so much marijuana he might part the fog so to speak and see Christ’s truth and respond properly to it.

I still want to know the answer to my question; if marijuana was made legal, should contemplative monks and nuns (in cloistered monasteries) be allowed to smoke marijuana there?

Michael.
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First of all, it was you who strayed from the religious part of the topic when you made the remark about the being too stoned to make a frozen pizza. The fact that Irv is Jewish does not negate the point made about him in response to the uncalled for pizza remark.
Secondly, as far as monks, or nuns using it, the idea may not be soooo out there once upon a time. Look up all you can on “Kaneh Bosm”. There are some resources that you may need to wade through to reach some decent info (there always is), but take a good look.
 
michael7777 said:
Catholic 102866, Yes Irv Rosenfeld is a Jew (the first ever federally funded marijuana patient) and denies the divinity of Christ. The main purpose of our reasoning (according to St. Augustine) is to know the truth that God reveals, Capax Dei. Just maybe, if Irv was to quit smoking so much marijuana he might part the fog so to speak and see Christ’s truth and respond properly to it.

I still want to know the answer to my question; if marijuana was made legal, should contemplative monks and nuns (in cloistered monasteries) be allowed to smoke marijuana there?

Michael.
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Irv Rosenfeld suffers from multiple congenital cartilaginous exostoses. Marijuana helps him handle the pain caused by this disease.

Whether or not cloistered monks/nuns would be able to use marijuana is totally irrelevant to the morality of using marijuana. The whole point of being cloistered is to detach from the world. I wouldn’t doubt that many monks are either bond by obedience or make vows not to drink alcohol. That’s doesn’t make it wrong for the average layperson to consume alcohol in moderation, though. The same could apply to marijuana.
 
MoJoe,

Are you are Hebrew scholar? I am not.

The transliterations I found in the lexicons (Ex 30:23) show not “Kaneh-Bosm” but rather “u·ke·neh-” and “vo·sem” for וּקְנֵה־ בֶּ֥שֶׂם
respectively. That sounds similar to Kaneh-Bosm, I think we need a Hebrew scholar on this one.

I find it peculiar that the earliest Greek manuscripts (from 2nd and 3rd Centuries) would have got the translations wrong and translated it as “Calamus.” It seems like they would have been greatly familiar with those Hebrew words more clearly than scholars today. It seems like there would have been some Jew (from within the 2nd - 20th century) who would have said no you translated the word wrong, it means Cannabis. The first solid evidence of the Hebrew use of this word as cannabis was established in 1936 by Sula Benet. However even with modern Hebrew scholars, I didn’t find one translation in +30 Bible translations that gives the translation “cannabis” or “hemp.” I think it would be best to listen these experts in Hebrew, because even all these modern scholars translated it as “Calamus.”

Are there any Hebrew scholars out there who can give their opinion on this subject?
 
LtPaint,

Monasteries that monks and nuns live in allow wine and beer. A lot of them have breweries, for example Chimay Beer. These Trappists monasteries often make the best beer sold in the World. They also very frequently have vineyards for wine. I would not like to think that these same monasteries would be growing marijuana one day on their consecrated grounds; as I believe cannabis use is contrary to the good of reason. However, I will leave the final decision up to the Church.

The late Pope John Paul II had frequently campaigned against marijuana decriminalization, saying there are no distinctions between “hard” and “soft” drugs and that using marijuana is equivalent to using heroin. Check out 1997 Pontifical Council for the Family.
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCFDRUGS.HTM

It really doesn’t make sense to me how you can be in California where it is legal and step over the state border to Nevada with your prescription where you would be in mortal sin. Know what I mean, I think there has to be more to it being grave matter than just it being illegal.
 
Yes i know all about Irv, as I posted the Vid. The point of the vid was to show you that what u said about reading watching movies and forgeting about them, making, pizzza, etc etc is false while being medicated… Irv proves you completely wrong as do many hard working medicinal using Catholics do…
 
Monasteries that monks and nuns live in allow wine and beer. A lot of them have breweries, for example Chimay Beer. These Trappists monasteries often make the best beer sold in the World. They also very frequently have vineyards for wine. I would not like to think that these same monasteries would be growing marijuana one day on their consecrated grounds; as I believe cannabis use is contrary to the good of reason. However, I will leave the final decision up to the Church.
Click to expand...
Or they might never be doing that regardless of if its legal because of the social stigma that has been attached to marijuana use. A social stigma that has been so overdone in America that we even classify hemp as a controlled substance.
The late Pope John Paul II had frequently campaigned against marijuana decriminalization, saying there are no distinctions between “hard” and “soft” drugs and that using marijuana is equivalent to using heroin. Check out 1997 Pontifical Council for the Family.
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCFDRUGS.HTM
Click to expand...
Again, I believe this has much to do with the social stigma attached to marijuana use. While I have much respect for the late pope, the equating of marijuana and heroin is absolutely ridiculous. There not even the same type of drugs. One is an opiate, the other is a psychoactive drug. One is extremely harmful, the other is harmless.
It really doesn’t make sense to me how you can be in California where it is legal and step over the state border to Nevada with your prescription where you would be in mortal sin. Know what I mean, I think there has to be more to it being grave matter than just it being illegal.
Click to expand...
Actually, this is just how the states function. Each state has their own legislature, where they can form their own laws. That’s also why I can gamble legally in Nevada, but not in Georgia(with the exception of Indian casinos).
 
LtPaint,

Your comment,
Again, I believe this has much to do with the social stigma attached to marijuana use. While I have much respect for the late pope, the equating of marijuana and heroin is absolutely ridiculous. There not even the same type of drugs. One is an opiate, the other is a psychoactive drug. One is extremely harmful, the other is harmless.

You use that word “harmless,” while I understand what you mean. I think it would be important to point out that no drug is truly “harmless.” Granted I will admit that cannabis is better for your physical health than getting drunk, however cannabis definitely has harmful side-effects against reason.

The Holy Father John Paul II: “It is true that there is a distinct difference between the use of drugs and the use of alcohol: while a moderate use of the latter as a drink does not offend moral principles, only its abuse can be condemned; instead, the use of drugs is always unlawful because it implies an unjustified and unreasonable renunciation of thinking, desiring and acting as a free person” (, 19, VII, 1992, n. 1).

It sounds like JPII thinks cannabis use is against the good of reason; cannabis according to JPII can’t even be used in moderation. For this I think it would be good to point out some words from the DSM IV

“The essential feature of Cannabis Intoxication is the presence of clinically significant maladaptive behavioral or psychological changes that develop during, or shortly after, cannabis use (Criteria A and B). Intoxication typically begins with a “high” feeling followed by symptoms that include euphoria with inappropriate laughter and grandiosity, sedation, lethargy, impairment in short-term memory, difficulty carrying out complex mental processes, impaired judgment, distorted sensory perceptions, impaired motor performance, and the sensation that time is passing slowly. Occasionally, anxiety (which can be severe), dysphoria, or social withdrawal occurs.” DSM IV 292.89

A maladaptive behavior is a behavior or trait that is not adaptive — it is counterproductive to the individual. Maladaptivity is frequently used as an indicator of abnormality or mental dysfunction, since its assessment is relatively free from subjectivity.

Grandiosity- this is another word for believing you are something greater than you are (pride). St. Gregory the Great says pride is very dangerous (a capital sin) because it engenders other sins and other vices. Pride is the root of envy, it’s a sin against love, and it is a capital sin. It could lead to indifference, a sin against Charity of God.

If you don’t like JPII, then listen to St. Thomas Aquinas, newadvent.org/summa/3150.htm
 
In my last post, I underlined from the DSM: (reasoning is strongly affected)
  1. impairment in short-term memory
  2. difficulty carrying out complex mental processes
  3. impaired judgment
Also the DSM uses the word “Significant” maladaptive behavior.

Besides that I think it is important to note Cannabis Psychosis, see this medical literature for more information.
priory.com/psych/cannabis.htm

Pax,
Michael.
 
Michael7777 I have been reading your very thoughtful replies and you are spot on.I also have been doing my own private reading on this subject, this is what I gathered (1) Using The Illicit drug marijuana is an objective mortal sin because it breaks The Fifth Commandment–THOU SHALT NOT KILL.(2) Using Marijuana is a mortal sin because we are bound to take reasonable care of the health of our Body.Life is a gift from God,we do not own ourselves,we belong to God.The use of marijuana for “recreational” use damages the person and to put ones life in grave danger is morally wrong.(3)The Effect of using marijuana is to destroy for a time one’s power of reason and with it free will,this is gravely wrong and is a Mortal Sin.
I also have been re-reading sections of Fundfamental Psychiatry by Cavanagh & McGoldrick–in the Chapter on Toxic Psychoses -Symptoms.(p436) and I quote–
“The effect of marijuana depends to a certain extent on the user’s disposition and character.It may produce either excitement or apathy.In psychoses resulting from marijuana,the clinical picture is likely to be one of acute hallucinatory mania–I will not bore you with all the quote, but he lists the effects–a dream like state,clouding of consciousness,disorientation and delirium,incoherence of speech and though–emotional state swing from euphoria to depressoin,remote memory stimulated,passage of time decelerated,detached from environment,nearby objects seem for away,immagination extremely active.innibitions are lessened,loss of emotional control,commission of acts of violence,hallucinations and delusions”"end of quote!! (you potheads know he is telling the truth)
He continues–"marijuana addiction does not occur,tolerance is not established,same dose will continue to produce the same effect. Discontinuance of the drug depends on the individual’s desire to do so,and HIS ABILITY TO CONTROL HIS CRAVINGS FOR ITS PLEASANT EFFECTS:’’
Both wrote this as professors of Universities in the USAJohn R.Cavanagh ,M.D.F.A.P.A.,F.A.C.P.,K.S.G. James B.McGoldrick,S.J.S.T.D.,Ph.D.They are authorities on Psychiatry,
So Michael7777 you are dead right about marijuana and reason–what confused me was the degree of the effects–but on what I observed from the past and the responses
you got about this subject is to conclude that even a "small"hit of marijuana does effect the reason but to the person experiencing the high, sees reality in a clouded manner,where as a person observing or testing the"small high"would show a cognative/behavioral desfuction.They trully believe they have got it all together-that is the delusion!!
I do think that the doctors make a valid point about the effects vary from person to person-my newphew on his 21st.had a party,his mates had a power point presentation,one slide showed him so drunk that he passes out in the chimney all covered in soot,they though it was really cool!! UNLIKE his uncle who could drink all night and still walk or drive home drunk-It just shows a personal example that drugs effect people differently(may God have mercy on both!!)
St.Michael the archangel defend us.Amen
 
My last post reply should show Graham A Phone on his wrong reasoning about small doses.What can I say to 102886,I can only take it on face value and believe all you say about yourself-basically you were never a drug user,played basketball-the all american mr. clean,who got sick,all your doctors could find nothing wrong with you,one decided to refer you to the Mayo clinic and a surprise to you,they test you-could not find the cause, but prescribed you to smoke"medicinal" marijuana anyway,which was a new experience for you and by all accounts has helped you.I hope I got the story right! I think you said,you suffer severe cramps,went off your food,cried when you read that smoking marijuana as a medicine was questioned.I think there were other problems.I am glad you told all this because this does not apply to you-so it will not help your getting better unfortunately-I will read out these,I was amazed at the similar problems of this condition- to your own–"“restless,apprehensive,uneasy,irritable,depressed,appetite decreases and no desire for food of any kind,nausea & vomiting may occur,a free flow of tears,sneezing,yawning,severe muscular cramps and soreness” end of quote(Fundamental Pschiatry).I wonder how many of these you could identify with, these are the symptoms of drug addiction withdrawal!! Since you were as clean as snow white as far as drug abuse was concerned, it will be of no use to you.Hope and pray you will get better soon.Our Lady Health of the sick,help 102886.
 
I was puzzled why your doctor never offered the drug Marinol if he thought THC was what you needed-both hospitals could have done this,Why give you the "smoked ''variety–You mentioned that you needed the other 50 cannabiods found in the plant!! Well my friend,I can guarantee you will not get them by smoking marijuana!!What you will get is THC and the by products of burning!!Think about it,celery seeds are good for you but if you burn them,all you get is the chemical results from the fire!!Bread has wonderful properties in it but I do not burn it in the toaster and inhail the fumes.It will be toxic if I do.I look forward when your condition will be cured and you will be able to think on a rational manner.God Bless.
 
In my opinion, it is grave matter. But I am not a priest and don’t know for sure so I would ask your priest to be sure.
 
They did have me try Marinol first it compares nothing to the natural plant in terms of medicinal effects for the spasms, nasuea, and appetite stimulant. When your in excrutiating pain would u rather vaporize (a non smoked delivery way of medicating) that takes effect in 10 seconds or take a pill that takes 10x longer to work and does not even come close to the medicinal benefits of the natural plant? Im not going to lie and say i have not smoked my medication b4 but my docs insist on using vaporization… Which happens to be the way i medicate most often… Either way the effects seeem to be the exact same…

Cannabis contains 80 different cannabinoids, including
the psychoactive component 9-tetrahydrocannabinol,
and nonpsychoactive components, which include cannabidiol,
cannabinol, and cannabigerol. In those components,
cannabidiol, a nonpsychoactive constituent of cannabis, was
found to be an anticonvulsant humans with epilepsy. Moreover, cannabidiol has been
shown to have antispasmodic, anxiolytic, antinausea, and
antirheumatoid arthritic properties.1 In addition, cannabidiol
has been shown to be protective against global and focal
ischemic injury.2,3

Received December 22, 2004; final revision received December 22, 2004; accepted February 18, 2005.
From the Department of Neuropharmacology (K.M., K.H., N.E., K.I., M.F.), Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, and Advanced Materials Institute
(K.I., M.F.), Fukuoka University, Japan; Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology (T.I.), Miyazaki Medical College, University of Miyazaki, Japan;
Department of Medical Physics (K.A.), School of Allied Health Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, Osaka University, Japan; and Department of Drug Safety
Evaluation (K.A.), Developmental Research Laboratories, Shionogi and Co, Ltd, Osaka, Japan.
Reprint requests to Michihiro Fujiwara, PhD, Department of Neuropharmacology, Faculty

I do not fit into any of the “drug withdraw symptoms” becuase these problems started b4 the doctors gave me any of my medication. I was perfectly healthy and for whatever reason my health started to detereorate…As for the crying im sure if you were in my shoes you would have 2. To see people talk so negativly about this medicine is truly a disgrace. It literally helps soo many people Catholic and non Catholic. Its has litrally helped stabilize my weight and helps control the spasms and pain like nothing else. This was a last resort medicine by the way, They did have me on a numerous number of pills that would make me sleeep all day but I wnt to be productive and its becuase of this plant i can do alot more than i could b4 the all the pills. Again I pray that they will find the cause of this so i will not have to use any medication.
 
Why is something that is against reason, or causes you to loose your reasonig (even for only several hours), or strongly distorts your reasoning (for a short time) so bad??

This is what convinced me further.
“Revelation further defines this philosophical, empirical classification of man as rational, volitional being. The fundamental anthropological truth of revelation is that man is imago Dei, made in God’s very image: Let us make man to our own image and likeness (Gen 1:26). ‘This image of God is not found even in the rational creatures except in the mind’ (Summa theologiae I, q. 93, a.4); or as Gilson (1960, sec. 28) put it, ‘Man represents the kind of being God is, because like God he too is an intelligent being’ (36). … Man’s immortality is due to the spiritual nature of his rationality. So too, it is his rationality, which has the ability to become that which it knows, that gives man the potential to become divinized by knowing God” (G.C. Dilsaver, MTS, PsyD. Imago Dei Psychotheraphy: A Catholic Conceptualization. Sapientia Press, 2009, pg 42).

What affects the mind will always affect the soul. Your brain and soul equal your mind; dirty your mind with drugs and you inevitably dirty your soul.

Michael.
 
I change my position.

This is what a very trusted priest wrote me… “A small use of pot (recreational) would be a venial sin, due to limited impairment. Seriously impairing reason to the point that is likely to do things which are seriously wrong would be a mortal sin…” Impairing your reasoning and doing so time and time again, “is a sort of cumulative think, like slowly stealing enough money until you arrive at mortal sin. In this way some people commit a mortal sin by irresponsible smoking, drinking or eating. To cause grave harm to ourselves by irresponsible choices is always gravely wrong.”

Apparently, this is what is widely taught in moral theology classes, even in the most Traditional and conservative seminaries.

So it is always, at least, a venial sin due to limited impairment of reasoning.
CCC #1863: “Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and un-repented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin…” (emphasis mine).
 
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