Is marriage worth it?

[hannajomar]

OR is there an algorithmic way to determine that this person will be worth it in the long run?

Nope.

If there’s not, it seems like marriage is a ****-shoot: some people get lucky and are very satisfied and some people are not.

All I can say it that there are ways to increase your chances - choose someone who shares similar lifestyle & values, etc. This includes marrying someone who accepts the indissolubility of sacramental marriage. When both people have this point of view, they are more likely to do all they can to make things work, to make the best of everything. But you can’t figure out everything. A huge part of getting married is that you have less control of things than you did before. The World tends to see this as something negative, but for me, losing some control has helped me to grow far more than I ever could have done on my own. I say this as someone who has been married for 3 years, and it has been rocky pretty much this whole time.

 

[PatriceA]

I don’t mean to sound pessimistic, but there are SO many factors that go into whether two people end up being happy together or not, factors that sometimes are impossible to know apriori.

OR is there an algorithmic way to determine that this person will be worth it in the long run? If there’s not, it seems like marriage is a ****-shoot: some people get lucky and are very satisfied and some people are not.

If all (I don’t mean to make this sound little) a happy marriage requires is 100% self-sacrifice for the other person, then why aren’t more marriages healthy? Or is selfishness (and related problems) the only cause of distress in marriage?

I don’t believe in luck. Blessed yes, luck no way.

Where is your discernment that marriage is your vocation? Where is God in all your ponderings?

My marriage has been the best decision I ever made. But I prayed hard first if marriage was God’s will for me. Then I prayed hard for my future spouse. Now I pray hard for my husband and my marriage to be continually blessed. Is it worth it to know God’s plan for my life is unfolding exactly the way He planned it to be? Absolutely without a doubt. If I didn’t have my ear to God’s lips though, it probably would be more trouble than not. I can’t do this alone, I need God’s help every step of the way.

 

[blessedrosary]

while for St. Joseph it can’t not have been worth it.

Ha!, Find me a woman like his and I’ll get married right now!

But to be serious, your responses have been very helpful. I asked whether the outcome of marriage can be determined, and many of the responses have included the following ideas: no, it can’t be but that need not be reason against marriage- the same indeterminacy exists in general for life. However, the things that would go toward making a good marriage (e.g. prayer, generosity, etc.), while they may not force the desired outcome, will certainly decrease the chances (but not eliminate!) that something pathological happens.

The ‘pessimism’ was inspired by some of the threads on CAF; in real life marriages (the marriages I’ve seen) often times look glamorous from the outside, but there may be things going on inside that can’t be seen from outside. I mean, beyond the ordinary difficulties. (I never thought marriage was supposed to be easy). Anyway, thanks for the responses; they’ve been tremendously helpful.

 

[thewanderer]

I don’t mean to sound pessimistic, but there are SO many factors that go into whether two people end up being happy together or not, factors that sometimes are impossible to know apriori.

OR is there an algorithmic way to determine that this person will be worth it in the long run? If there’s not, it seems like marriage is a ****-shoot: some people get lucky and are very satisfied and some people are not.

If all (I don’t mean to make this sound little) a happy marriage requires is 100% self-sacrifice for the other person, then why aren’t more marriages healthy? Or is selfishness (and related problems) the only cause of distress in marriage?

Well, like everyone else, I agree that there is no 100% foolproof set of guidelines to assure a good and healthy marriage there are plenty of steps one can take to better ones chances. But most importantly pray to discover whether or not it is your vocation to be married, but also to be married to this specific person. If you know that it is what God was calling you to it will make it easier to deal with it later on in the event that it does fall to pieces. I am speaking from the experience of seeing my mother be physically and emotionally abused by my father, he cheated, yelled at her and even began to push her around etc before she finally took all of us kids far away to get us out of that environment. She suffered horribly because of it, but she put her faith in God and came to Him for healing. She never spoke angrily or bitterly of our father to us, she simply explained that he had done some bad things, made mistakes and that we needed to pray for him that he might find his way back to the Church. I can’t even begin to tell you the amazing effect this witness of unconditional love that my mother was had on me and my siblings. Her unbelievable fidelity and love for her us her children, her husband, and most of all for God, have been truely inspirational. She suffered much but offered it up to God, recognized that this was where he wanted her, and that now it was her place to raise her children the best that she could, that this was her vocation.

There’s no foolproof way to make sure your marriage won’t fail, but that doesn’t mean one should decide not to get married, instead one should be aware of the possibility that their marriage might fail, they should not count on it, they should not expect it to happen, but they should be aware and be willing to accept such a situation should it arise. I can’t even begin to express how much the strength and love my mother showed has effected me and the way that I look upon marriage, I know how serious such a comitment is, because I know how much suffering can come when it goes awry, but I also see all the love and commitment that can still exist, and the unbelievable worth that can still exist in a person’s life who has suffered through a broken marriage.

Oh gosh, I’m kind of rambling. Basically, there’s no foolproof method to make sure it won’t fail. But the fact that it could fail is not a good enough reason to fail to comit when one is truly called to marriage, when one finds that someone who is right for you. Part of the unbelievable beauty of marriage comes from the complete vulnerability of those involved in giving themselves so completely to each other, it opens one up to the possiblity of a world of hurt, but it also makes the beauty of a good marriage possible. And even when it fails, that really doesn’t mean the end of one’s life or the end of happiness. I have so much love and respect for my mother and I will never be able to speak highly enough of her, a failed marriage does not mean that ones life becomes meaningless. For my mother it was us, her children that became her new meaning in life, and I am unbelievably grateful to her that she got married, and conceived and cared for all of her children, even though she was already suffering emotionally before we were all born. Its not always foolproof, but it is still definately worth it, you can’t livee life, or love, unless you open yourself up and become vulnerable to both life and love, you will be hurt in the process, but despite the hurt, it is far, far, more worth it to live open to life and vulnerable, than to close oneself off from both life and love for the sake of avoiding being hurt, your life will never really feel fulfilled if you close youself off, you will always know it, even if you continue to avoid recognizing it, we are built to open ourselves up and become vulnerable, and there will always be something missing if we don’t.

 

[styrgwillidar]

… And because family courts are so biased against men from the outset, the best any Dad will likely do is 50% custody and placement, which is what I have. I knew I couldn’t remove them from the madness completely, and I was torn between staying and being their protector and leaving and minimizing the damage. …

I was very fortunate in that I knew my now legally ex-wife would not uphold the 50% custody and gradually drive the kids away. (…gradual ended up being ~4 months and ~9 months). I was able to get full custody that way, they live with me full time and she visits them in our home.

I think if I would have made an issue out of it to begin with, she would have fought it and then put them through the wringer of insisting they go to her home out of stubborness. Perhaps it is why God chose me to be her spouse, so that when she went through this there was someone to ensure the kids had a secure home.

Yeah, it was worth it. There were many good times and I treasure those memories.

 

[robwar]

At first look, this is quite funny. On second look, there’s a great depth to the emotion and humility here…many years of wisdom condensed to a very helpful outlook.

that’s the rub isn’t it? If more people would focus on trying to develop and be the right spouse instead of just looking for the right spouse, they might make better choices and or attrack the right life long spouse. I am speaking to those who are not married and looking or thinking about it. Developing patient, forgiveness, flexibility, kindness, self-giving should be the aim of those who think that they are called to be married and most are. if the OP would think about what would make him (or her) an ideal marriage partner, that puts a whole different view of it and changes the dynamics here. Also, praying. If you think that God is calling you to be married, why don’t you start now a spend some time, especially in adoration and pray the God would lead to to the right person as well as for your future spouse. If you focus now on developing your own character as well, you will really go along way later on. Look for someone you genuinely admire and respect.

 

[hurting]

I was very fortunate in that I knew my now legally ex-wife would not uphold the 50% custody and gradually drive the kids away. (…gradual ended up being ~4 months and ~9 months). I was able to get full custody that way, they live with me full time and she visits them in our home.

I think if I would have made an issue out of it to begin with, she would have fought it and then put them through the wringer of insisting they go to her home out of stubborness. Perhaps it is why God chose me to be her spouse, so that when she went through this there was someone to ensure the kids had a secure home.

Yeah, it was worth it. There were many good times and I treasure those memories.

Seconding, from firsthand experience, the observation that the domestic relations courts in this country are very biased against men.

 

[EasterJoy]

Seconding, from firsthand experience, the observation that the domestic relations courts in this country are very biased against men.

Yes. I think biology compels women to be very choosy, but for the wise, the reality of how the legal system works ought to make men every bit as choosy when finding their spouses.

You’ll always be putting your bet on a fallible human being, but since it goes both ways, I don’t think the system is unfairly rigged. It goes back to what the old guy said, because when we’re honest, we’d all say: Well, you’re no prize, either! Still, getting someone who turned out to be more Trojan horse than a prize is a rude experience. It’s a vale of tears, and that is one aspect of it.

 

[hurting]

Yes. I think biology compels women to be very choosy, but for the wise, the reality of how the legal system works ought to make men every bit as choosy when finding their spouses.

You’ll always be putting your bet on a fallible human being, but since it goes both ways, I don’t think the system is unfairly rigged. It goes back to what the old guy said, because when we’re honest, we’d all say: Well, you’re no prize, either! Still, getting someone who turned out to be more Trojan horse than a prize is a rude experience. It’s a vale of tears, and that is one aspect of it.

I don’t want to hijack the thread, but to suggest that the current state of affairs in domestic relations courts in this country does not overwhelmingly favor women is to ignore the obvious reality manifested by the fact that by nearly every account I’ve read, divorces initiated by women outnumber those launched by men by a ratio of two to one. Unless women are irrational actors, there is simply no way given such a large sample size that the perceived and realized costs/benefits of divorce work out far better for the fairer sex.

 

[horselvr]

Courts stacked in favor of the “fairer sex ?”

Can you elaborate please or could you post your source. Thanks

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t want to hijack the thread, but to suggest that the current state of affairs in domestic relations courts in this country does not overwhelmingly favor women is to ignore the obvious reality manifested by the fact that by nearly every account I’ve read, divorces initiated by women outnumber those launched by men by a ratio of two to one. Unless women are irrational actors, there is simply no way given such a large sample size that the perceived and realized costs/benefits of divorce work out far better for the fairer sex.

I do not mean the legal system. I think that depends on too many variables and has too many variables–for instance, by “favor” do you mean getting the children or do you mean who is better off financially “X” number of years out, and so on and son on through endless arguments–and even then varies from one courtroom to the next and one pool of divorce attorneys to the next. IMHO, nobody in their right mind gets married with the idea that the “system” will be in their favor if the wheels come off! People probably do get married with that idea, but they are nuts! Divorce is just a horrible thing to have to go through.

I meant that in the overall scheme of things, everyone who marries puts a great deal of faith in the person they choose as their spouse and everyone takes a big chance with their future and the future of their children. It is not just one gender or the other taking all the chances, that is what I mean. I think the majority would say the chance is worth it, even though a majority of marriages are not currently predicted to last until the death of one of the spouses. When you find the state in life that you feel you are meant for, I don’t know what can describe that. When you feel you ought to be in some state of life and can’t, being happy in some other state of life takes a good deal of strength of character and ability to accept.

Even though not everything can be in your hands when you choose, maybe it takes a certain amount of optimism about your personal choices to be happy in them? I don’t know.

 

[hannajomar]

The ‘pessimism’ was inspired by some of the threads on CAF; in real life marriages (the marriages I’ve seen) often times look glamorous from the outside, but there may be things going on inside that can’t be seen from outside. I mean, beyond the ordinary difficulties. (I never thought marriage was supposed to be easy). Anyway, thanks for the responses; they’ve been tremendously helpful.

Quite often marriages that seem glamorous from the outside are the ones which have so much pain in reality. The best marriage I’ve ever witnessed was my grandparents’ marriage. Think of Frank and Marie Barrone. They appeared to always be bickering, but now that I look back, they were just 100% honest with each other and never behaved differently just because they were around people. They never had to pretend, and they didn’t expect each other to be perfect. They were the closest I have ever seen to a married couple where 2 become 1, and they didn’t seem to need to always be pretty about that.

 

[Veronica97]

Is it worth it? I don’t know. But I can describe one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen. My grandparents were in their early 80s and had been married over 60 years. They had lost a child as a toddler, had helped raise half their grandchildren and even a great-grandchild, and went through some really rough times due to my grandmother’s health over the years. That day my husband and I had gone over to visit them and were going to take them out for some ice cream. I watched my grandfather tenderly brush my grandmother’s hair so she could go with us, and it came to my mind, “THAT is love.” Good times and bad. Rich and poor. Sickness and health. The commitment was still there. I can’t tell you if it was worth it to them, but what I saw that day was worth a million dollars to me.

 

[anruari]

For a marriage to work it needs to be entered into carefully.
A lot of people “get hitched” for the wrong reasons
A lot of people sin gravely against thier spouses
these factors lead to the high levels of marriage breakdown in our society.

If you enter into a marriage with realistic expectations and with someone who you are compatible with, and then mean and live by your wedding vows then there is a very good chance of a successful marriage.

to have and to hold. To Love, honour, Serve, and Obey. in sickness and in health. for better or for worse. for richer or for poorer from that day forth 'till death do you part.

Love here is not the “Hollywood definition”. That concept of “Romantic Love” has done massive damage to our society. it is a new novelty. It is nothing more than disguised Lust and covetousness.
Married Love should more resemble the love a parent has for a newborn baby. it’s about total self giving to the other person. but unlike a parental love it also includes a brotherly love, and a sexual love.

 

[EasterJoy]

Is it worth it? I don’t know. But I can describe one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen. My grandparents were in their early 80s and had been married over 60 years. They had lost a child as a toddler, had helped raise half their grandchildren and even a great-grandchild, and went through some really rough times due to my grandmother’s health over the years. That day my husband and I had gone over to visit them and were going to take them out for some ice cream. I watched my grandfather tenderly brush my grandmother’s hair so she could go with us, and it came to my mind, “THAT is love.” Good times and bad. Rich and poor. Sickness and health. The commitment was still there. I can’t tell you if it was worth it to them, but what I saw that day was worth a million dollars to me.

That’s it. You don’t have to have an easy life for marriage to be worth it. You don’t have to have any guarantees. You don’t have to have everything go right.

I think that is much harder to say when you find you did not have a valid marriage, and I just say this having talked to those who went through that. If the elements weren’t there at some point, if there was a confounding variable, if you find yourself attempting marriage in good faith with someone who lacks the capacity or the will and always has, then that is different.

Even then, though, I know some who will say, “Knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t have picked that person, but having picked that person, true good did come out of the situation. I have much more than regrets to look back on.” They say that because when you put a good faith effort in, you can take satisfaction away from that sometimes, even when the marriage was destined to fail. It is not a total thumbs-up/thumbs-down situation.

 

[hurting]

I do not mean the legal system. I think that depends on too many variables and has too many variables–for instance, by “favor” do you mean getting the children or do you mean who is better off financially “X” number of years out, and so on and son on through endless arguments–and even then varies from one courtroom to the next and one pool of divorce attorneys to the next. IMHO, nobody in their right mind gets married with the idea that the “system” will be in their favor if the wheels come off! People probably do get married with that idea, but they are nuts! Divorce is just a horrible thing to have to go through.

I meant that in the overall scheme of things, everyone who marries puts a great deal of faith in the person they choose as their spouse and everyone takes a big chance with their future and the future of their children. It is not just one gender or the other taking all the chances, that is what I mean. I think the majority would say the chance is worth it, even though a majority of marriages are not currently predicted to last until the death of one of the spouses. When you find the state in life that you feel you are meant for, I don’t know what can describe that. When you feel you ought to be in some state of life and can’t, being happy in some other state of life takes a good deal of strength of character and ability to accept.

Even though not everything can be in your hands when you choose, maybe it takes a certain amount of optimism about your personal choices to be happy in them? I don’t know.

To be clear, I am referring primarily to the secular world, the legal system, if you will. I was speaking in broad generality, of course, and I realize there are certainly exceptions, but if you buy the argument that however painful divorce may be, people are generally rational actors. If neither sex were advantaged by divorce in general, the filing rates would be close to 50/50.

 

[hurting]

Courts stacked in favor of the “fairer sex ?”

Can you elaborate please or could you post your source. Thanks

unc.edu/courses/2006fall/econ/586/001/Readings/Brinig.pdf

 

[hurting]

Courts stacked in favor of the “fairer sex ?”

Can you elaborate please or could you post your source. Thanks

 

[EasterJoy]

To be clear, I am referring primarily to the secular world, the legal system, if you will. I was speaking in broad generality, of course, and I realize there are certainly exceptions, but if you buy the argument that however painful divorce may be, people are generally rational actors. If neither sex were advantaged by divorce in general, the filing rates would be close to 50/50.

I beg to differ.

I’ve known a lot of people going through divorce, and a lot of them were not what even they (in retrospect) would describe as rational actors. It only takes one with his or her brain in la-la land to put a family in divorce court. Very often, it is the spouse who has more cause to complain that is the one who is abandoned. Very often, people file for divorce with total fantasies in their heads concerning where that will get them.

Divorce does come as the result of real problems that cannot be dealt with in other ways, such that the Church teaches that civil divorce between validly married couples is morally permissible in some situations, but sometimes divorce comes from totally unrealistic and irrational thinking, too, both before and after marriage. I’ve known enough first-hand accounts to know this to be true, and I think the vast majority of divorce attorneys will tell you the same thing.

After all, think of how many people commit suicide in a given year. How many go back to abusive situations when there was a way out? How many won’t go to the doctor because they fear the treatment that their condition might warrant, because they fear that they might be told they have what they secretly believe they have? Pain, past trauma, and fear of the unknown have a way of setting off irrational chains of actions as often (or more often) than rational ones.

Divorce is not an exception: it is chosen for reasons both very rational but also grossly irrational.

 

[Lucky7]

that is a very sad view and if the Church teaches contra marriage then how do you think children should come into the world and be raised? God’s first commandment is “be fruitful and multiply”. Jesus first miracle was at a wedding. One misquote about marriage from the Counsel of Trent taken out of context does not prove this.

IDK. If we sin more as a married person, then I can see how the Church might think celibacy is better. I can’t think of the Bible verse right now, but I believe it was ST Paul who said that marrieds are more concerned with their spouse than they are with things of God.

I certainly can not speak for others, but I definitely sin more as a married person. Then again, IMO marriage is much harder than the single life, so it’s understandable…not excusable, but understandable.

ETA: Oh,and to actually answer the OP’s question? Yes, it’s worth it. Having said that, if something were to happen to my husband, I would not look for another husband. and I think that sounds contradictory…maybe someone else who is married can decipher that…lol.