Is martyrdom dependent on the killer's intent?

[The_Scott]

Hi,

So I was wondering: is martyrdom dependent on the killer’s intent? Of course, I’m not talking about something like “Joe Smith is Catholic; Smith is murdered because the killer wanted to rob his house and he got in the way; therefore, Smith is a martyr.” That’s not what I mean.

To give an example, I’m talking about someone like Shahbaz Bhatti, a Catholic, who was murdered because he spoke against Pakistani’s blasphemy law. You can read his story at wikipedia here to get a clearer picture: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahbaz_Bhatti .

Now, let us say that the murderer’s intent wasn’t because Mr. Bhatti was a Catholic, but because he was politically dangerous (in a noble cause). It just so happened that Mr. Bhatti was Catholic.

Could, theoretically, Mr. Bhatti be considered a martyr?

Am I making sense here?

 

[GEddie]

If someone who is Catholic is killed because of his faith, or because of am action he has taken that is motivated by his faith, they are potentially a martyr.

It does not matter what the intentions of the killer are, only what those of the victim were. You are right, being a Catholic who falls into a deadly situation does not do it. The faith must be why one has died.

ICXC NIKA

 

[The_Scott]

If someone who is Catholic is killed because of his faith, or because of am action he has taken that is motivated by his faith, they are potentially a martyr.

It does not matter what the intentions of the killer are, only what those of the victim were. You are right, being a Catholic who falls into a deadly situation does not do it. The faith must be why one has died.

ICXC NIKA

The underline is what I’d like to focus on.

So let’s say, for example, out of Catholic charity, go to Africa and help out the local villages. This infuriates the drug lords - not because I’m Catholic, but because I’m helping the villagers. So they kill me, as by my death they get more power. Would that be potential for martyrdom?

 

[GEddie]

The underline is what I’d like to focus on.

So let’s say, for example, out of Catholic charity, go to Africa and help out the local villages. This infuriates the drug lords - not because I’m Catholic, but because I’m helping the villagers. So they kill me, as by my death they get more power. Would that be potential for martyrdom?

I’d say so. Such would be similar to someone like Saint Maximilian Kolbe, AIU.

ICXC NIKA

 

[svid2]

“I never heard a corpse ask how it got so cold.” - Prince Richard, in The Lion in Winter

What about the case of Archbishop Romero, murdered by ‘Catholic’ Sandanistas because he spoke out against the corrupt government? To me, he spoke Catholic truth to power. He’s a martyr.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I’d say so. Such would be similar to someone like Saint Maximilian Kolbe, AIU.

ICXC NIKA

As I recall, there was some discussion during the canonization process about whether this was truly martyrdom, as he offered his life as a substitute for another man about to be killed by the Nazis. The rules for canonization by martyrdom require that the killer be motivated out of a hatred for the Faith (this is an important issue in the canonization process, as martyrs are not required to demonstrate two miracles - the martyrdom is in itself a miracle). The Pope, who makes the ultimate call, said that Fr. Kolbe’s killer was motivated by an ideological hatred for human dignity, a dignity whose protection is an element of our Faith, and so it was a martyrdom.

That’s as best I can remember the situation.

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

As I recall, there was some discussion during the canonization process about whether this was truly martyrdom, as he offered his life as a substitute for another man about to be killed by the Nazis. The rules for canonization by martyrdom require that the killer be motivated out of a hatred for the Faith (this is an important issue in the canonization process, as martyrs are not required to demonstrate two miracles - the martyrdom is in itself a miracle). The Pope, who makes the ultimate call, said that Fr. Kolbe’s killer was motivated by an ideological hatred for human dignity, a dignity whose protection is an element of our Faith, and so it was a martyrdom.

That’s as best I can remember the situation.

But, the reason Father Kolbe was in the deathcamp, was because of the Nazis’ hatred for Catholics, especially Catholic priests who spoke out against the regime in Poland. So, I would think that being motivated by Catholic charity that led him to step in for another man, would make him a martyr for the Faith.

 

[GEddie]

As I recall, there was some discussion during the canonization process about whether this was truly martyrdom, as he offered his life as a substitute for another man about to be killed by the Nazis. The rules for canonization by martyrdom require that the killer be motivated out of a hatred for the Faith (this is an important issue in the canonization process, as martyrs are not required to demonstrate two miracles - the martyrdom is in itself a miracle). The Pope, who makes the ultimate call, said that Fr. Kolbe’s killer was motivated by an ideological hatred for human dignity, a dignity whose protection is an element of our Faith, and so it was a martyrdom.

That’s as best I can remember the situation.

Even so, this instance has set the precedent for martyrdoms of the future, ISTM.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

But, the reason Father Kolbe was in the deathcamp, was because of the Nazis’ hatred for Catholics, especially Catholic priests who spoke out against the regime in Poland. So, I would think that being motivated by Catholic charity that led him to step in for another man, would make him a martyr for the Faith.

I agree, and more importantly, the Pope did too.