Is Mary considered

[blkmustang]

Hello,

I was having a conversation with a fellow Catholic and they stated that Mary is considered the mother of the Church and is also consider the wife of God is that correct? Being the mother of the Church I understand that but I dont understand the being Gods wife. The reason they said she’s Gods wife was because he got her pregnant.That did not sound right to me so I want to see if I can get some help. Thanks

God Bless

 

[NotWorthy]

Mother of God, yes.
Wife of God? I don’t think so.
Since she married Joseph, that would make her a polygamist, eh?

 

[Alexander_Smith]

Mother of God, yes.
Wife of God? I don’t think so.
Since she married Joseph, that would make her a polygamist, eh?

Good points. The Church is called the “Bride of Christ”, not the Blessed Mother.

 

[Della]

Hello,

I was having a conversation with a fellow Catholic and they stated that Mary is considered the mother of the Church and is also consider the wife of God is that correct? Being the mother of the Church I understand that but I dont understand the being Gods wife. The reason they said she’s Gods wife was because he got her pregnant.That did not sound right to me so I want to see if I can get some help. Thanks

God Bless

It sounds like a misstatement that Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit in that she conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and not by the will of man. The term “wife of the God” implies an ordinary conjugal relationship. While Mary certainly was set apart for God it was as a perpetual virgin, not as a perpetual wife.

 

[budgie2]

Hello,

I was having a conversation with a fellow Catholic and they stated that Mary is considered the mother of the Church and is also consider the wife of God is that correct? Being the mother of the Church I understand that but I dont understand the being Gods wife. The reason they said she’s Gods wife was because he got her pregnant.That did not sound right to me so I want to see if I can get some help. Thanks

God Bless

In some ways she was like the bride of God the Father. A lot of saints claim to be the brides of Christ, but Mary was more like God the Father or Yahweh’s bride as she was also Christ’s mother. So she was unique in that sense.

She was closer to a nun in some ways than a wife as she didn’t consummate her marriage with Joseph according to Church dogma.

 

[NHInsider]

Child of the Father, Mother of the Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

 

[mangy_dog]

Hello,

I was having a conversation with a fellow Catholic and they stated that Mary is considered the mother of the Church and is also consider the wife of God is that correct? Being the mother of the Church I understand that but I dont understand the being Gods wife. The reason they said she’s Gods wife was because he got her pregnant.That did not sound right to me so I want to see if I can get some help. Thanks

God Bless

Mary is the daughter of the Father

The Mother of the Son and

The spouse of the Holy Spirit.

On another note: Beware of these people that talk about divine matters with their minds seared with matters of the flesh.

 

[Scaun]

To the last poster: why is Mary the spouse of the Holy Spirit?

 

[NHInsider]

Because she gave birth to the Son.

 

[Scaun]

Because she gave birth to the Son.

I don’t follow. How does that make her the wife of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Della]

I don’t follow. How does that make her the wife of the Holy Spirit?

It is because Mary conceived Jesus of the Holy Spirit, making her set apart for God in the same way the Tabernacle was set apart in the OT. The word for overshadowing the Angel Gabriel used to announce Jesus’ conception is the same used to describe the overshadowing (the glory) of the Tabernacle:

Exodus 40 [34] Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.[35] And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting, because the cloud abode upon it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. [36] Throughout all their journeys, whenever the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the people of Israel would go onward; [38] For throughout all their journeys the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was in it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel.

Matt.1[20] But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit…[23] “Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel” (which means, God with us).
Luke 1[30] And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary…[31] And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus… [35] And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.

Sadly, much of this rich theological understanding was lost among our Protestant brethren after the Reformation–gradually, though, not right away, in fact not for a couple of centuries. Luther and Calvin would easily have recognized and understood this prefiguring of the Tabernacle as Mary the Mother of God (Theotokos [God-bearer] in the Greek) and the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. I hope that helps.

 

[Scaun]

It is because Mary conceived Jesus of the Holy Spirit, making her set apart for God in the same way the Tabernacle was set apart in the OT. The word for overshadowing the Angel Gabriel used to announce Jesus’ conception is the same used to describe the overshadowing (the glory) of the Tabernacle:

Exodus 40 [34] Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.[35] And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting, because the cloud abode upon it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. [36] Throughout all their journeys, whenever the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the people of Israel would go onward; [38] For throughout all their journeys the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was in it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel.

Matt.1[20] But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit…[23] “Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel” (which means, God with us).
Luke 1[30] And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary…[31] And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus… [35] And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.

Sadly, much of this rich theological understanding was lost among our Protestant brethren after the Reformation–gradually, though, not right away, in fact not for a couple of centuries. Luther and Calvin would easily have recognized and understood this prefiguring of the Tabernacle as Mary the Mother of God (Theotokos [God-bearer] in the Greek) and the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. I hope that helps.

Again, I don’t follow your train of thought. Why does her being the ‘tabernacle’ (spiritual tabernacle, that is) make her the wife of Holy Spirit?

 

[Della]

Again, I don’t follow your train of thought. Why does her being the ‘tabernacle’ (spiritual tabernacle, that is) make her the wife of Holy Spirit?

The word “wife” is incorrect. Please don’t use it. Spouse of the Holy Spirit is the correct term because it doesn’t refer to being married in this context, but simply to the fact that she conceived of the Holy Spirit. It’s a delicate difference, but an important one. God did not have sex with Mary and continue to do so throughout her life as a mortal man. He overshadowed her and she engendered Jesus in her womb. That was a one time event, but it set her apart for God, which is what the term Spouse of the Holy Spirit means.

 

[YADA]

The phrase: “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” has long been used in Christian undersanding …

The problem is attempting to take that phrase in its simplistic human literal meaning and then use it to explain relationships between Jesus, Mary, the Church etc …

The Incarnation is a great mystery … it cannot be reduced to simplistic descriptions using human linguistics and meanings …

God is One …
The Father, The Son and The Hoy Spirit - the Trinity - are One God
Jesus - the Man - is the Incarnated God …
Mary conceived Jesus - through the Power of the Holy Spirit - not through human carnal relations … not through carnal relations with God [as say the Greek’s and Roman’s stories of their Gods did]

The Word - was present at the Beginning of the World and The Word is also Jesus, The Son …

Every word developed, every grouping of words, every essay written to describe these Mysteries falls short … that is why they are Mysteries …

If you think you can fully comprehend what the Trinity is - you are mistaken. If you think you can uderstand what the Incarnation was, is and its impact on the human race - you are mistaken …

However, you can look at , reflect upon and study the various aspects [Yes using our human language and human understandings] to develop a deeper understanding of the spiritual aspects of the great Mysteries …

My suggestion is to read the writings where Mary is referred to as the Spouse of the Holy Spirit … similarly those ancient writings that discuss Mary’s role as the Mother of God … Mother of the Church etc … through that study you wil develop a greater love for Christ, an appreciation of His atoning gift of Eternal Life to redeem mankind …

Stay here discussing this without deep study and spiritua reflection and you will forever be left with comments like “how could she be the wife of God when she was the wife of Joseph - wouldn’t that maker her an adullteress?” …

A good place to start is with the Scriptures themselves - always read your Bible - I assume you have one - and then also the writings of the Early Church Fathers … you can do that online or get a copy of Jurgen’s 3 Volume edition … study and read for yourself …

 

[Scaun]

The word “wife” is incorrect.Please don’t use it.

**spouse ** /spaʊs/ * noun * C ] FORMAL OR LEGAL
a person’s husband or wife
*In 60% of the households surveyed both spouses went out to work.
*

Source​

According to my dictionary (Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary), it is correct. A spouse is a wife or husband. The definition of “spouse” is “a person’s husband or wife”. If Mary is the “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” then she is the wife of the Holy Spirit. Even dictionary.com has the same definition: spouse
   [n. spous, spouz; v. spouz, spous] Show IPA noun, verb, spoused, spous·ing.
–noun

1. either member of a married pair in relation to the other; one’s husband or wife.
   –verb (used with object)
2. Obsolete. to join, give, or take in marriage.
   
   Source​
   The Oxford dictionary as well: **spouse
   **Pronunciation: /spaʊz, -s/
   ** noun **
   a husband or wife, considered in relation to their partner
   
   Source
   ​
   What dictionary are you using?

Spouse of the Holy Spirit is the correct term because it doesn’t refer to being married in this context, but simply to the fact that she conceived of the Holy Spirit.

Being someone’s spouse is to be married to that someone. Saying “Jonathan is Ashley’s spouse” is the same as saying “Jonathan is Ashley’s husband”. Saying “Anna is Ben’s spouse” is the same as saying “Anna is Ben’s wife”.

It’s a delicate difference, but an important one.

The only difference there is is that the word ‘spouse’ can refer to both partners while the word ‘wife’ can only refer to the female.

God did not have sex with Mary and continue to do so throughout her life as a mortal man. He overshadowed her and she engendered Jesus in her womb. That was a one time event, but it set her apart for God, which is what the term Spouse of the Holy Spirit means.

Neither did I say He did.

But no, according to the actual meaning of the word, she’d actually be the Wife of the Holy Spirit. The fact that God made her bear His Son doesn’t make her The Spouse [Wife] of the Holy Spirit.

If she isn’t “The Wife [or Spouse] of the Holy Spirit” then it would be better not to call her like that. Being someone’s spouse is the same as being someone’s wife or husband.

 

[NotWorthy]

**spouse ** /spaʊs/ * noun * C ] FORMAL OR LEGAL
a person’s husband or wife
*In 60% of the households surveyed both spouses went out to work.
*

Source​

Scaun,

I don’t have a dog in this hunt, but I would suggest checking the origin of the word spouse. Does the term “spouse” pre-date the Oxford dictionary and whatnot and has the word taken on a new meaning? This has been the case in several misunderstood Church terms, such as “worship”. I’m not sure if that is the case here, however.

 

[Scaun]

Scaun,

I don’t have a dog in this hunt, but I would suggest checking the origin of the word spouse. Does the term “spouse” pre-date the Oxford dictionary and whatnot and has the word taken on a new meaning? This has been the case in several misunderstood Church terms, such as “worship”. I’m not sure if that is the case here, however.

***Origin: ***
1150–1200; (n.) ME < OF spous (masc.), spouse (fem.) (aph. for espous, espouse ) < L spōnsus, spōnsa lit., pledged (man, woman) (n. uses of ptp. of spondēre to pledge), equiv. to spond- verb s. + -tus, -ta ptp. suffix; (v.) ME spousen < OF esp ( o ) user; cf. espouse

[C12: from Old French *spus (masculine), *spuse * (feminine), from Latin *sponsus, sponsa * betrothed man or woman, from *spondēre * to promise solemnly]

spouse
c.1200, “a married woman in relation to her husband” (also of men), from O.Fr. spus (fem. spuse ), from L. sponsus “bridegroom” (fem. sponsa “bride”), from masc. and fem. pp. of spondere “to bind oneself, promise solemnly,” from PIE *spend- “to make an offering, perform a rite” (see spondee). Spouse-breach (early 13c.) was an old name for “adultery.”

Source

Origin:
Middle English: from Old French spous(e), variant of espous(e), from Latin sponsus (masculine), sponsa (feminine), past participles of spondere ‘betroth’

Source
Of course the original word had a slightly different meaning, but it is still basically the same thing. So no, it is not like in the case of the word “worship”.

 

[Axion]

**spouse **/spaʊs/ *noun * C ] FORMAL OR LEGAL
a person’s husband or wife
In 60% of the households surveyed both spouses went out to work.

Source​

According to my dictionary (Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary), it is correct. A spouse is a wife or husband. The definition of “spouse” is “a person’s husband or wife”. If Mary is the “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” then she is the wife of the Holy Spirit.

The term “wife” is not used, specifically to avoid tendentious persons then coming up and saying “When was the wedding performed”, “When were the banns read” or making other simplistic, over-literalist comments. Spouse is a looser term than wife, but signifies a permanent and singular relationship.

But no, according to the actual meaning of the word, she’d actually be the Wife of the Holy Spirit. The fact that God made her bear His Son doesn’t make her The Spouse [Wife] of the Holy Spirit. If she isn’t “The Wife [or Spouse] of the Holy Spirit” then it would be better not to call her like that. Being someone’s spouse is the same as being someone’s wife or husband.

No. You seem to be trying to over-literalise a spiritual and unique mystery in order to attack it.

And are you therefore claiming that Jesus is illegitimate? That there was an improper element to His birth?

 

[Della]

**spouse ** /spaʊs/ * noun * C ] FORMAL OR LEGAL
a person’s husband or wife
*In 60% of the households surveyed both spouses went out to work.
*

Source​

According to my dictionary (Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary), it is correct. A spouse is a wife or husband. The definition of “spouse” is “a person’s husband or wife”. If Mary is the “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” then she is the wife of the Holy Spirit. Even dictionary.com has the same definition: spouse
   [n. spous, spouz; v. spouz, spous] Show IPA noun, verb, spoused, spous·ing.
–noun

1. either member of a married pair in relation to the other; one’s husband or wife.
   –verb (used with object)
2. Obsolete. to join, give, or take in marriage.
   
   Source​
   The Oxford dictionary as well: **spouse
   **Pronunciation: /spaʊz, -s/
   ** noun **
   a husband or wife, considered in relation to their partner
   
   Source
   ​
   What dictionary are you using?
   Being someone’s spouse is to be married to that someone. Saying “Jonathan is Ashley’s spouse” is the same as saying “Jonathan is Ashley’s husband”. Saying “Anna is Ben’s spouse” is the same as saying “Anna is Ben’s wife”.
   The only difference there is is that the word ‘spouse’ can refer to both partners while the word ‘wife’ can only refer to the female.
   Neither did I say He did.

But no, according to the actual meaning of the word, she’d actually be the Wife of the Holy Spirit. The fact that God made her bear His Son doesn’t make her The Spouse [Wife] of the Holy Spirit.

If she isn’t “The Wife [or Spouse] of the Holy Spirit” then it would be better not to call her like that. Being someone’s spouse is the same as being someone’s wife or husband.

The Church, which uses the term spouse in this context, doesn’t define it according to the Oxford Dictionary. It’s more in the sense of espoused, meaning set aside for God alone, as was the tabernacle, which is why I referred to the OT passage. Therefore, again, and for the last time, the term “wife” is inappropriate and not how the Church defines Mary’s relationship with the Holy Spirit.

 

[NHInsider]

Scaun wrote

The only difference there is is that the word ‘spouse’ can refer to both partners while the word ‘wife’ can only refer to the female.

This is actually not insignificant. “Wife” and “husband” are gender terms. Spouse is not. Mary was espoused to the Holy Spirit. She conceived of the Holy Spirit. But she did not engage in sexual relations with the Holy Spirit.

In the Incarnation, the Second Person of the Trinity became flesh and was male. But God is not Male or Female - God is Perfect and Complete. (Male and female are complementary - God created us to complete one another - created us in His image, male and female Gen. 1:27.)