D
Dr_M
Guest
haha, sure, lol, i’ll get the 12 bucks, we’l pull it off like the Doritos commercial that played in the superbowl for 12 bucks, lol
- Status
B
b2memphis
Guest
What does the Bible say?
Mat 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (who’s church? Christ’s church)
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. (who’s church? Christ’s church, not Marys and not Peter’s … Christ’s Church!)
Mat 16:19 And I (who would give them the keys to the kingdom? Christ would give them the keys to the kingdom!) will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”),
Who redeems us, Christ redeems us!
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Tit 2:14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Who redeemed us? Christ redeemed us! Not Mary, not Peter!
Was Mary there in the beginning?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
What does the inspired writer, John, say? In the beginning was GOD! Not God and Mary … GOD!
What reference do we have of Mary in the new testament after Acts 1:14
Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
Mat 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (who’s church? Christ’s church)
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. (who’s church? Christ’s church, not Marys and not Peter’s … Christ’s Church!)
Mat 16:19 And I (who would give them the keys to the kingdom? Christ would give them the keys to the kingdom!) will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”),
Who redeems us, Christ redeems us!
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Tit 2:14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Who redeemed us? Christ redeemed us! Not Mary, not Peter!
Was Mary there in the beginning?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
What does the inspired writer, John, say? In the beginning was GOD! Not God and Mary … GOD!
What reference do we have of Mary in the new testament after Acts 1:14
Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
A
alemieux
Guest
Just read Fulton J. Sheen’s the Life of Christ. He makes it completely clear that every action Mary make’s looks towards the cross. She is complicit in Christ’s redemptive activity. Let’s not forget what the prophet Simeon said of her “And a sword of sorrow shall pierce your heart.”
Our Lady of LaSalette appears as a suffering Madonna. Our Lady of Fatima and Lourdes begs everyone to repent and to pray. These miraculous interventions on her behalf for mankind’s sake is not a self serving act. She is pointing the way to Christ.
To Jesus through Mary! Read anything from John Paul II on the blessed Mother!!! How many rosaries did Padre Pio say a day to the blessed Mother!?!
By giving Mary the rightful honor of co-redemptrix, we take nothing away from Christ!!!
Our Lady of LaSalette appears as a suffering Madonna. Our Lady of Fatima and Lourdes begs everyone to repent and to pray. These miraculous interventions on her behalf for mankind’s sake is not a self serving act. She is pointing the way to Christ.
To Jesus through Mary! Read anything from John Paul II on the blessed Mother!!! How many rosaries did Padre Pio say a day to the blessed Mother!?!
By giving Mary the rightful honor of co-redemptrix, we take nothing away from Christ!!!
B
b2memphis
Guest
But you do! Let me ask you this first … is the Bible the true, inspired word of God?
K
kaycee
Guest
I think If the Lord tarries, Mary will eventually be found within “tradition” to be participating with God in redemption before the foundations of the world.
Ah, wonderful. Another “Catholics Worship Mary ™” poster, another Expert on the Catholic Faith.
:yawn:
K
kbharbert
Guest
**i agree.
‘co’ MAY mean one thing in latin and another in english but…this sort of semantics is what causes people to believe catholics worship the Blessed Mother in the first place.
**
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
Yes indeed, when properly translated and interpreted. None of what you posted negates what we believe or contradicts what we believe. Only your shallow understanding of scripture helps Satan in his goal of you NOT properly understanding what is written.
- Together; joint; jointly; mutually: coaptation.
2. Subordinate or auxiliary: coenzyme. - To the same extent or degree: codominant.
Auxiliary-Redeemer? Yes
memphis, if you find a non-christian on the street and you tell him about Christ and he says your “Sinners Prayer” and becomes saved, are you not in the role of co-redeemer(in the proper context as noted above) as well? The sinner that you actively helped come to christ may not have come to christ on his own. Your co-redeemer role would be very apparent.
T
Tomster
Guest
Is Mary the Co-redeemer?
Yes and this is why I believe it.
At the close of the Holy Year of 1933, Pope Pius XI invoked Mary publicly under the title “co-Redemptrix.” In the following passage from the encyclical on the Sacred Heart, the same Pontiff portrays Mary as actually offering her Son on Calvary. This same idea will be repeated by Pope Pius XII in his encyclical on the Mystical Body. Therefore a word of caution is in order. Although Mary associated herself with the offering of her Son, this affective oblation formed no part of that great liturgical offering on Calvary in which Christ alone was Priest and Victim. Thus, it is only Christ who paid by way of sacrifice the actual price of our redemption. It is only Christ who merited our justification in the strict sense of the term (de condigno). Mary, to quote Pope Benedict XV, immolated her Son "insofar as it was hers to do. In the words of Pope St. Pius X, Mary “merits for us congruously (de congruo) . . . what Christ merited for us condignly”
Pope Benedict XV in his apostolic letter, Inter Sodalicia, does not use the title co-Redemptrix but expresses the idea quite vividly. “Thus, she [Mary] suffered and all but died along with her Son suffering and dying; thus, for the salvation of men she abdicated the rights of a mother towards her Son, and insofar as it was hers to do, she immolated the Son to placate God’s justice, so that she herself may justly be said to have redeemed together with Christ the human race.”
Yes and this is why I believe it.
At the close of the Holy Year of 1933, Pope Pius XI invoked Mary publicly under the title “co-Redemptrix.” In the following passage from the encyclical on the Sacred Heart, the same Pontiff portrays Mary as actually offering her Son on Calvary. This same idea will be repeated by Pope Pius XII in his encyclical on the Mystical Body. Therefore a word of caution is in order. Although Mary associated herself with the offering of her Son, this affective oblation formed no part of that great liturgical offering on Calvary in which Christ alone was Priest and Victim. Thus, it is only Christ who paid by way of sacrifice the actual price of our redemption. It is only Christ who merited our justification in the strict sense of the term (de condigno). Mary, to quote Pope Benedict XV, immolated her Son "insofar as it was hers to do. In the words of Pope St. Pius X, Mary “merits for us congruously (de congruo) . . . what Christ merited for us condignly”
Pope Benedict XV in his apostolic letter, Inter Sodalicia, does not use the title co-Redemptrix but expresses the idea quite vividly. “Thus, she [Mary] suffered and all but died along with her Son suffering and dying; thus, for the salvation of men she abdicated the rights of a mother towards her Son, and insofar as it was hers to do, she immolated the Son to placate God’s justice, so that she herself may justly be said to have redeemed together with Christ the human race.”
B
b2memphis
Guest
Is the Bible the inspired word of God and can we believe every word?
T
Tomster
Guest
Is the Bible the true, inspired word of God?
Absolutely !
The words of Luke 1:38: “Behold the handmaid of the Lord,” imply, Mary’s mediate, remote co-operation in the Redemption. St. Ambrose expressly teaches: “Christ’s passion did not require any support.” In the power of the grace of Redemption merited by Christ, Mary, by her spiritual entering into the sacrifice of her Divine Son for men, made atonement for the sins of men, and (de congruo) merited the application of the redemptive grace of Christ. In this manner she co-operates in the subjective redemption of mankind.
The statement of Pope St. Pius X in the encyclical “Ad diem illum”: “The Blessed Virgin merits for us de congruo what Christ merited de condigno” is, as the present tense “promeret” shows, not indeed to be taken as referring to the historical objective Redemption, which occurred once for all, but to her ever-present, intercessory co-operation in the subjective redemption.
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
Yes indeed, when properly translated and interpreted in it’s proper context.
S
Steelhart
Guest
I see that point, and understand that when translated a certain way, but if you wonder why protestants think Catholics are nuts thats why. Half my family still thinks that I worship her. Should we start calling everyone in the Church a co-redeemer so we don’t confuse and anger ?
My votes no, just because it drives a wedge between the Church and many, which does not need to be there.
p.s. I’ve been in for just over a year and Mary was the hardest stumbling block for many to understand. Many left RCIA and some didn’t confirm because they needed even more time to discern.
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
I feel your pain on that one..** Half my family still thinks that I worship her.** Should we start calling everyone in the Church a co-redeemer so we don’t confuse and anger ?
My votes no, just because it drives a wedge between the Church and many, which does not need to be there.
p.s. I’ve been in for just over a year and Mary was the hardest stumbling block for many to understand. Many left RCIA and some didn’t confirm because they needed even more time to discern.
We have a couple at our church that have been going to our church for at least since 1992. They still have not converted yet. They have been to at least 5 RCIAs over the past years…
M
mansr27
Guest
My question is with definition 1 and 3. It presents that we hold Mary on the same level as Jesus. Why use language that can promote confusion. We have one redeemer Christ Jesus. Many have worked to bring others to redemption including some of you. Should we not as a Church make sure our messages are clear?
M
mliow7
Guest
Mary Is Co Redeemer In The Understanding That She Is Working With ; Not The One Who Redeems’ Could Use Other Verbs Like Share; Involve;assist;and So On But The Power Of Redemption Is Not Hers To Grant; And So Not Hers To Possess:
I Do Believe She Is The Co Redeemer And She Has Been Since Her Fiat At The Annunciation
I Do Believe She Is The Co Redeemer And She Has Been Since Her Fiat At The Annunciation
B
b2memphis
Guest
please enlighten me!
J
jemfinch
Guest
And 1 Peter 2:9 is quoting Exodus 19:6, which said the same thing to the Israelites and somehow didn’t prevent them from having a ministerial priesthood who had the ministry of reconciliation.
Why should I remember a heresy?Remember, Prima Scriptura
Jeremy
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
We don’t hold to definitions 1 and 3. We hold to definiton 2. That is why it is bolded in red. That is the context of our belief.
It was clear at the time of it’s clarification. Over the course of time the primary definition of a word has changed. So it now becomes an argument of Semantics. Also most dictionaries were written by Non-Catholics, so there is a slant toward Protestantism and the KJV. Noah Webster was a congregationalist and his dictionary tried to adhere to biblical definitions…not entirely secualar
As for you, you only have 2 posts and the nature of your post gives reason to suspect you are not Catholic at all.
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
Why don’t you answer the questions I gave you?
- Status