Is Mary the "coredemptrix"?

[Harpazo]

The article did not make it sound any better.

Why on earth did my church start all this stuff?

Why could we not keep it simple?

between the Lord’s Prayer, Mass, Nicene Creed, Scripture read literally from genesis to revelation, the priestly order and the Eucharist we did not need anything else.

especially a queen, because we have The King Who shall return.

I understand where you are coming from. Do you object to any of the other Sacraments and Saintly intercession? It is things like this that make me glad I chose to become Orthodox. Co-Redemptrix is not anywhere in Christian history. Pure and simple.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Harpazo]

Yep… .let me add that those who are in Christ belong to one body, which Christ is the head, and in spiritual reality… there is no distinction between Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglicans, etc. Please check out the In Christ thread and comment on it.

Eh, that’s a rather touchy thing to say. I can almost guarantee that most Catholics and Orthodox would find exception with this statement.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[2nd_Adam]

Eh, that’s a rather touchy thing to say. I can almost guarantee that most Catholics and Orthodox would find exception with this statement.

In Christ,
Andrew

That’s okay, because there are Reformed Christians who do not express the universal church in the way that I do. Actually, the Westminster Confession of Faith Confession and I think the London Baptist Confession of 1689 still has the Pope as being from the spirit of the anti-Christ. Where we cross denominational lines and branches of Christianity is found in the statment of being “in Christ”. Our union with Christ is everything. Our union with a particular branch of Christianity is only secondary.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Eh, that’s a rather touchy thing to say. I can almost guarantee that most Catholics and Orthodox would find exception with this statement.

In Christ,
Andrew

Not to mention fundamentalist “bible” Christians who would take exception of being lump in with Catholics

God bless

 

[2nd_Adam]

Not to mention fundamentalist “bible” Christians who would take exception of being lump in with Catholics

God bless

I am catholic without being Catholic. Yet, I know there are Catholics (the remnant) who are part of my understanding of being catholic.

 

[Harpazo]

I am catholic without being Catholic. Yet, I know there are Catholics (the remnant) who are part of my understanding of being catholic.

Okay. So you want to say you are a part of the Body of Christ, but you don’t want to “stand firm and hold to the teachings” of Apostolic Christians? That is spiritual schizophrenia!

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Yep… .let me add that those who are in Christ belong to one body, which Christ is the head, and in spiritual reality… there is no distinction between Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglicans, etc. Please check out the In Christ thread and comment on it.

Perhaps it is better to say there is no distinction of doctrine among the saints in Heaven, as there God has freed them from the sin of doctrinal error. May we all be unified there someday.

In the meantime, the body is divided and not everyone who cries, “Lord, Lord,” is a Christian.

Edit: and it is perfectly correct to confess one’s church as the true Church of Christ on earth, established by the Apostles, which will persevere to the end. If you even believe Christ established such a church, that is.

Edit2: VVVVVVVVV Wow.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Okay. So you want to say you are a part of the Body of Christ, but you don’t want to “stand firm and hold to the teachings” of Apostolic Christians? That is spiritual schizophrenia!

In Christ,
Andrew

Apostolic Doctrine is contained within Holy Scripture. I do not believe in apostolic succession. It seems that the Orthodox Tradition has a different set of apostolic succession than Catholic Tradition. Now that’s confusing.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Perhaps it is better to say there is no distinction of doctrine among the saints in Heaven, as there God has freed them from the sin of doctrinal error. May we all be unified there someday.

In the meantime, the body is divided and not everyone who cries, “Lord, Lord,” is a Christian.

Edit: and it is perfectly correct to confess one’s church as the true Church of Christ on earth, established by the Apostles, which will persevere to the end. If you even believe Christ established such a church, that is.

Now, that’s a wise posting… but you are in the tradition of that wild boar. Happy Reformation Day to you! Maybe we have this in common?

monergism.com/directory/search.php?action=search_links_simple&search_kind=and&phrase=martin+luther

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Now, that’s a wise posting… but you are in the tradition of that wild boar. Happy Reformation Day to you! Maybe we have this in common?

You’re a few weeks early with that greeting. We confessional Lutherans are as far from you Calvinists as we are from Rome. I am hesitant to say we have anything in common when you deny the power of Christ in the Sacraments instituted by Him. Calvin did start out thinking he was a Lutheran, though.

Edit: So sorry, I did not mean to derail the thread. I, along with Martin Luther, have a high opinion of Mary and venerate her. Like Luther, I also think Catholics sometimes put her in the highest place and as the supreme example of charity.

 

[2nd_Adam]

You’re a few weeks early with that greeting. We confessional Lutherans are as far from you Calvinists as we are from Rome. I am hesitant to say we have anything in common when you deny the power of Christ in the Sacraments instituted by Him. Calvin did start out thinking he was a Lutheran, though.

We are joined at the hip connected by the 5 solas of the Protestant Reformation. In addition, you are part of the Reformed alliance. Check this out! We Reformed Christians considered the sacraments to be means of grace too. In addition, Calvinist Christians are always quoting Martin Luther.

alliancenet.org/

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, Inc > What is the Alliance?

What is the Alliance?

Who We Are
The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is a broad coalition of evangelical Christians from various denominations, including Baptist, Congregational (Independent), Anglican (Episcopal), Presbyterian, Reformed, and Lutheran. The purpose of the Alliance’s existence is to call the Church, amidst a dying culture, to repent of its worldliness, to recover and confess the truth of God’s Word as did the reformers, and to see that truth embodied in doctrine, worship, and life

 

[spoiltvictorian]

We are joined at the hip connected by the 5 solas of the Protestant Reformation. In addition, you are part of the Reform alliance. Check this out! We Reformed Christians considered the sacraments to be means of grace too. In addition, Calvinist Christians are always quoting Martin Luther.

alliancenet.org/

I am not a part of that website. A Presbyterian and I wouldn’t agree on several parts of Nicene Creed, so how can you say we both confess it? You mean we both recite the words and believe (our individual understanding of) the words are true?

As for the means of grace:

1. Do you think a baptized infant is now a Christian with the Holy Spirit indwelling?
2. Do you think that when you take Communion you are eating Jesus Christ and that you receive forgiveness of sins and assurance?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I am not a part of that website. A Presbyterian and I wouldn’t agree on several parts of Nicene Creed, so how can you say we both confess it? You mean we both recite the words and believe (our individual understanding of) the words are true?

As for the means of grace:

1. Do you think a baptized infant is now a Christian with the Holy Spirit indwelling?
2. Do you think that when you take Communion you are eating Jesus Christ and that you receive forgiveness of sins and assurance?

now this calls for popcorn



God bless you

 

[spoiltvictorian]

OK, to be fair, Gene Edward Veith is a member of that council. He is a member of the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod. Most of the other names I recognize are Presbyterian and Reformed Baptist, though.

 

[2nd_Adam]

I am not a part of that website. A Presbyterian and I wouldn’t agree on several parts of Nicene Creed, so how can you say we both confess it? You mean we both recite the words and believe (our individual understanding of) the words are true?

As for the means of grace:

1. Do you think a baptized infant is now a Christian with the Holy Spirit indwelling?
2. Do you think that when you take Communion you are eating Jesus Christ and that you receive forgiveness of sins and assurance?

I’ve never seen a Lutheran divide over such issues from other Protestants. I like the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals as a summary of my faith and unity.

alliancenet.org/

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, Inc > What is the Alliance?

What is the Alliance?

Who We Are

The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is a broad coalition of evangelical Christians from various denominations, including Baptist, Congregational (Independent), Anglican (Episcopal), Presbyterian, Reformed, and Lutheran. The purpose of the Alliance’s existence is to call the Church, amidst a dying culture, to repent of its worldliness, to recover and confess the truth of God’s Word as did the reformers, and to see that truth embodied in doctrine, worship, and life

 

[Alindawyl]

I’m not sure if I follow. How is Mary our queen as Christians? And, why should I have a queen if Mary is part of the creation. In comparison, Jesus is our King who is God in the flesh. As Christians, our affection has to be for our Triune God first and foremost.

Is your objection to Mary possessing the title of queen, or is it to what you think that title means?

Jesus was a Jew. When Jesus established his Church, the first members were Jews. The Old Testament was written by Jews. The New Testament was written by Jews who believed in Jesus as the messiah. It only makes sense that they would approach things from a Jewish perspective and use the term queen in the Jewish sense.

In the Old Testament, the kings of Israel had many wives. None of their wives were the queen. The queen was the MOTHER of the king.

Jesus is the king, descended from the line of David. Mary is his mother. Therefore Mary is the queen.

Also, the “job” of the queen of Israel was to serve as an advocate for the people. She was their intercessor, assisting them in bringing their concerns before her son the king.

Mary fulfills her role as intercessor still to this day, assisting us in bringing our concerns before her son Jesus.

That’s what Mary as our queen means. Not a co-ruler of heaven, but the mother of the king of heaven. The best advocate we could have whenever we bring our concerns to the king.

 

[2nd_Adam]

OK, to be fair, Gene Edward Veith is a member of that council. He is a member of the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod. Most of the other names I recognize are Presbyterian and Reformed Baptist, though.

LOL… you are joined deeply at the hip by the solas of the Protestant Reformation! Happy Reformation day in advance to you!

 

[2nd_Adam]

now this calls for popcorn



God bless you

CS Lewis was not Catholic…

 

[spoiltvictorian]

I’ve never seen a Lutheran divide over such issues from other Protestants. I like the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals as a summary of my faith and unity.

alliancenet.org/

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, Inc > What is the Alliance?

What is the Alliance?

Who We Are

The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is a broad coalition of evangelical Christians from various denominations, including Baptist, Congregational (Independent), Anglican (Episcopal), Presbyterian, Reformed, and Lutheran. The purpose of the Alliance’s existence is to call the Church, amidst a dying culture, to repent of its worldliness, to recover and confess the truth of God’s Word as did the reformers, and to see that truth embodied in doctrine, worship, and life

OK, look…

There are organizations and websites where individual Lutherans join with Presbyterian, Baptists, Catholics, Orthodox, etc. for the cause of unity and ecumenism. That doesn’t mean that their denominations agree. Sometimes the people in these organizations act like the only differences are minor and secondary, but isn’t necessarily true either.

I mean, I could start a Lutheran-Mormon alliance and find some Mormons to co-author a statement about confessing the supremacy of the Bible and the Nicene Creed. But he’s still a Mormon. Do we basically believe the same thing? Is the Lutheran Church or the Mormon church going to back up this organization? No!

So while you may like AllianceNet’s confession of faith, you need to also be aware that it does not confess the faith of any church - it’s just the opinions of several pastors and professors that some denominations hold a few things in common as starting points for discussion, and that they have common enemies in the world, the flesh and the devil.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

CS Lewis was not Catholic…

I think he would whole heartily disagree with you

And don’t try to keep me from my popcorn

God bless you