Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?

[JonNC]

Okay, I see what you meant. As someone else posted above, after the Resurrection He went out of His to illustrate He still had a body. Now, if you don’t believe in the Resurrection, then I see how you arrive at not believing Jesus has a body.

John 20

• 26Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” *

He had a body.

Jon

 

[Randy_Carson]

“Whom is my mother ?”

Matthew 12:46-50 – Who is my Mother?

Matthew 12:46-50
46While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother” (cf. Mark 3:31-35; Luke 8:19-21).

On another occasion, "A woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” 28He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:27-28).

In these two passages, it seems that Jesus Himself depreciated the dignity of His Blessed Mother. In reality, Jesus places the bond that unites the soul with God above the natural bond of parentage which unites the Mother of God with her Divine Son. The latter dignity is not belittled by this, but because we naturally appreciate the family connection more easily, it is employed by Our Lord as a means to make known the real value of holiness. In actuality, therefore, Jesus praises His mother in a most emphatic way for she exceeded the rest of men in holiness not less than in dignity.

Most probably, Mary was found also among the holy women who ministered to Jesus and His apostles during their ministry in Galilee (cf. Luke 8:2-3); the Evangelists do not mention any other public appearance of Mary during the time of Jesus’ journeys through Galilee or Judea. But we must remember that when the sun appears, even the brightest stars become invisible.

Since Mary *was *Jesus’ mother *and *she did the will of the Father in heaven, she is *doubly *blessed.

 

[Randy_Carson]

It is all in the eye of the beholder. You see John 2 as part of her influential "Gebirah"ship,“Queen” etc .Others see it as the opposite, where Jesus makes it quite clear that he will do what he must do when it is His time, and not by any deference to His mother (much like Solomon and Bathsheba) .“Woman (not what he called her at the cross), what have I do with you ? My time has not yet come”. Why did he say this if he knew he was gonna do what he did ? Why? Some would say he puts the whole “Gebirah” thing into question, not to mix up earthly traditions with kingdom heirarchy. For sure we know it was His time. For sure we know she prodded Him but we don’t know other than to get/buy more wine. We don’t know if she understood what Jesus said to her, or that she was demanding a miracle. I would suspect Jesus was “man of the house” and took care of things for Mary previously, without miracles.

Heh.

And then what did Jesus do?



That’s right…he made wine out of water as His mother requested.

 

[JonNC]

Heh.

And then what did Jesus do?



That’s right…he made wine out of water as His mother requested.

I can see her raise her eyebrow at Him, in a way mothers do, after His comment her. Then she turns to tell the servants to do what He tells them.
I have no way of knowing, nor is there any theological confirmation, but I have always considered this a rather interesting, almost teasing, between them.

Jon

 

[Randy_Carson]

I can see her raise her eyebrow at Him, in a way mothers do, after His comment her. Then she turns to tell the servants to do what He tells them.
I have no way of knowing, nor is there any theological confirmation, but I have always considered this a rather interesting, almost teasing, between them.

Jon

Even more intriguing…how did she know to ask?

Kinda makes you wonder what else he had been doing around the house for her?

 

[pocohombre]

Heh.
And then what did Jesus do?

We all know what He did. .It is good speculation that can lead to opposing views (Gebirah effect vs. not).

That’s right…he made wine out of water as His mother requested.

We have no record that Mary asked Jesus to turn water into wine.

 

[Reuben_J]

We have no record that Mary asked Jesus to turn water into wine.

Just an aside. It is this kind of relationship between Mary and Jesus that makes Catholics love her so much.

It is the intuitive almost telepathic understanding between them, which most probably developed during the long years of mother and son relationship, that makes Mary a perfect intercessor.

Mary did not order Jesus around nor she tell him what to do - she merely bring up the matter and then trust in Jesus’ decision and action in solving it. “Do what he tell you,” was what she said - a complete trust in her son knowing that he would do the needful. And how he would do it, it would be always according to his ways.

 

[Randy_Carson]

We all know what He did. .It is good speculation that can lead to opposing views (Gebirah effect vs. not).
We have no record that Mary asked Jesus to turn water into wine.

Yeah, right.

John 2:1-5
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” 4 “Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Mary sees the newlyweds are in trouble…they have run out of wine for their guests. She tells Jesus about this situation, and His response suggests that she was not making an off-hand observation. “Oh, gee…they’ve run out of wine. Bummer.”

Then Jesus’ response is: “Why do you want me to get involved? The time for me to reveal who I am has not yet come.” Jesus clearly understood that Mary wanted Him to DO something about the situation…He was just reluctant to go public with His big secret just yet. But Mom knew.

So, did He answer her request? You bet He did…with 120 gallons’ worth of the finest “Yes, Ma’am!” ever tasted in Galilee.

By the way, was Mary confident that Jesus was gonna answer her request? Boy, howdy! She told the servants, “Follow my son’s instructions very carefully…this party is about to rock!”

 

[pocohombre]

]Matthew 12:46-50 – Who is my Mother?

Matthew 12:46-50
46While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother” (cf. Mark 3:31-35; Luke 8:19-21).

On another occasion, "A woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” 28He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:27-28).

In these two passages, it seems that Jesus Himself depreciated the dignity of His Blessed Mother.

Only if you over appreciate it in the first place. I am sure Jesus was aware of female cults etc. Early saints who extol Mary also warn against over extoling.

In reality, Jesus places the bond that unites the soul with God above the natural bond of parentage which unites the Mother of God with her Divine Son.

Actually I think he is saying we much each have that bond and do the Fathers’ bidding (which of course Mary did). Yes the spiritual bond is above and should rule the natural bond.

The latter dignity is not belittled by this, but because we naturally appreciate the family connection more easily, it is employed by Our Lord as a means to make known the real value of holiness.

I think he is trying to get away, or above the “family connection”.

In actuality, therefore, Jesus praises His mother in a most emphatic way for she exceeded the rest of men in holiness not less than in dignity.

Don’t see that in these scriptures.The annunciation scriptures do that, and Jesus says focus now on the spiritual nature of our relationship.

Most probably, Mary was found also among the holy women who ministered to Jesus and His apostles during their ministry in Galilee (cf. Luke 8:2-3); the Evangelists do not mention any other public appearance of Mary during the time of Jesus’ journeys through Galilee or Judea. But we must remember that when the sun appears, even the brightest stars become invisible.

One must recall Mary and His brethren wanting to bring Jesus back home, being “perplexed” by His beginning ministry.

Since Mary *was *Jesus’ mother *and *she did the will of the Father in heaven, she is *doubly *blessed.

For sure.

 

[pocohombre]

Yeah, right.

John 2:1-5
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” 4 “Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Mary sees the newlyweds are in trouble…they have run out of wine for their guests. She tells Jesus about this situation, and His response suggests that she was not making an off-hand observation. “Oh, gee…they’ve run out of wine. Bummer.”

Then Jesus’ response is: “Why do you want me to get involved? The time for me to reveal who I am has not yet come.” Jesus clearly understood that Mary wanted Him to DO something about the situation…He was just reluctant to go public with His big secret just yet. But Mom knew.

So, did He answer her request? You bet He did…with 120 gallons’ worth of the finest “Yes, Ma’am!” ever tasted in Galilee.

By the way, was Mary confident that Jesus was gonna answer her request? Boy, howdy! She told the servants, “Follow my son’s instructions very carefully…this party is about to rock!”

I like your enthusiasm but respectfully disagree with your speculation that Mary was asking for a miracle, as if there were no wine in all of Cana. Remember, it is known as the first miracle.

 

[petra22]

I can see her raise her eyebrow at Him, in a way mothers do, after His comment her. Then she turns to tell the servants to do what He tells them.
I have no way of knowing, nor is there any theological confirmation, but I have always considered this a rather interesting, almost teasing, between them.

Jon

Lately I have been reading the scenes from the bible with the sense that there is much love and laughter between Jesus and Mary. And suddenly those scenes take on a different flavor. Just like the scene at the wedding. And at the temple when he was lost for three days. The words don’t strike a questioning, hostile mood anymore but just love and laughter.
Just an interesting way to look at it in mho.

 

[petra22]

Even more intriguing…how did she know to ask?

Kinda makes you wonder what else he had been doing around the house for her?

I wondered about that too!!!

 

[pablope]

I like your enthusiasm but respectfully disagree with your speculation that Mary was asking for a miracle, as if there were no wine in all of Cana. Remember, it is known as the first miracle.

Poco…do you think Jesus is God? Do you think Jesus did not understand or know what Her mother was hinting at?

And…there is 2000 year of tradition…that Mary asked for the changing of water into wine…so you you really think 2000 yrs of tradition of understanding this has been all wrong for the last 2000 years?

And your recent interpretation is correct? Was this a revelation to you somehow?

 

[Reuben_J]

I think he is trying to get away, or above the “family connection”.

I can see where you based you logic on but I would see this more on the generosity of God that we are invited into God’s family when we believe (hear and put the word into action).

I would always feel uncomfortable with the idea that Jesus would accept one virtue at the expense of the other - obedience to the word at the expense of the family connection. I do not believe the passage means that but rather that God opens his family membership to anyone (who believe and act on the word).

Being a member of the family of God is a great gift that now we become an addition to the family that he already has. OR in a spiritual way, the family of the Trinity - the Father and the Son (and the Holy Spirit).

Rom 6 would be a good reference - that we become heir to what Jesus has. And since he becomes the Son, and so too we are. But this do not mean that Jesus own family has taken on second in importance to him - they are still members of his family. It only means we can become members of the family of God by our obedience to His word.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I like your enthusiasm but respectfully disagree with your speculation that Mary was asking for a miracle, as if there were no wine in all of Cana. Remember, it is known as the first miracle.

So, when Mary told Jesus about the shortage, was she really suggesting that He and the guys run out to the liquor store?

 

[pablope]

So, when Mary told Jesus about the shortage, was she really suggesting that He and the guys run out to the liquor store?

well…its as if they could just get wine anywhere…at that time…isn’t it?

 

[pocohombre]

well…its as if they could just get wine anywhere…at that time…isn’t it?

umm, where did they get the initial wine in the first place? Didn’t wedding celebrations last a week ( unlike ours which are one day /evening) ?..Again, as I stated earlier, and others agree, it is all good speculation, both ways.

 

[Sam_777]

Yeah, right.

John 2:1-5
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” 4 “Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Mary sees the newlyweds are in trouble…they have run out of wine for their guests. She tells Jesus about this situation, and His response suggests that she was not making an off-hand observation. “Oh, gee…they’ve run out of wine. Bummer.”

Then Jesus’ response is: “Why do you want me to get involved? The time for me to reveal who I am has not yet come.” Jesus clearly understood that Mary wanted Him to DO something about the situation…He was just reluctant to go public with His big secret just yet. But Mom knew.

So, did He answer her request? You bet He did…with 120 gallons’ worth of the finest “Yes, Ma’am!” ever tasted in Galilee.

By the way, was Mary confident that Jesus was gonna answer her request? Boy, howdy! She told the servants, “Follow my son’s instructions very carefully…this party is about to rock!”

well I agree with your concept, but I think the wine was a non-alcoholic one (aka. A perfectly heavenly one).

 

[WaitingForJesus]

So, when Mary told Jesus about the shortage, was she really suggesting that He and the guys run out to the liquor store?

 

[rinnie]

So, when Mary told Jesus about the shortage, was she really suggesting that He and the guys run out to the liquor store?