Is Mary the queen of heaven?

[Mannyfit75]

Matthew 1:24-25
24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Matthew 13:54-56
54 He came to His hometown and began teaching them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers? “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? “And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”

Mark 6:3
3 “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?” And they took offense at Him.

John 7:5
5 For not even His brothers were believing in Him.Don’t those verses speak more to Mary having had other children, and not at all about a body and soul assumption into heaven?There is a lot of talk about a “Queen Mother,” and about a “Queen of Heaven” on this thread. Now some Queen Mothers were good, and others not so good; as far as the Queen of Heaven, she is never good, and Israel, according to Jerermiah, is punished for their devotion to her; and if one allows scripture to interpret scripture…

Also, in the NT, there are only three queens mentioned, as I recall: the Queen of the South, mentioned twice; and the queen of the Ethiopians, mentioned once; and a queen in Rev. 18 which is most probably “Babylon.”

Furthermore, there are no texts which refer to Mary as either “Queen Mother,” or “Queen of Heaven.”

Perhaps that is because there is only a King in heaven?

Jesus is from the Davidic Kingdom and during the Davidic Kingdom all Jewish Kings had mothers as their Queen. Therefore, Mary is the Queen of Heaven. Jesus belongs to the Davidic Line and he inherited the Kingdom.

I don’t think Jesus would discontinue this tradition. In Revelations 12, the Bible stats that John saw a woman clothed with the sun crowned with Twelve Stars who gave birth to child who will rule the Earth.

This child is Jesus. Who is the mother of Jesus? Mary. Who wears a crown? A Queen. So Mary is the Queen of heaven.

h

 

[sandusky]

Jesus is from the Davidic Kingdom and during the Davidic Kingdom all Jewish Kings had mothers as their Queen. Therefore, Mary is the Queen of Heaven. Jesus belongs to the Davidic Line and he inherited the Kingdom. I don’t think Jesus would discontinue this tradition.

Actually, Jesus is from the kingdom of God, and His kingdom is the kingdom of God.

You did not respond to my statement about scripture interpreting scripture; in this case, the “queen of heaven,” scripture defines that term negatively in its only use of the term in Jer 7
and 44.

Mannyfit75:

In Revelations 12, the Bible stats that John saw a woman clothed with the sun crowned with Twelve Stars who gave birth to child who will rule the Earth.

This child is Jesus. Who is the mother of Jesus? Mary. Who wears a crown? A Queen. So Mary is the Queen of heaven.

That is certainly an interesting interpretation, but what happens to the woman as the chapter continues makes that questionable; it is, after all, a “sign” symbolizing something; what follows is the woman fleeing to the wilderness where she is cared for by God for three-and-one-half years as the adversary pursues her; do you believe that Mary will be returning to the earth bodily at some point for three-and-one-half years to be pursued by Satan and protected by God?

 

[Le_Cracquere]

Good questions here. First of all, you use the term “end run.” Catholic teaching does not imply that any end runs need to be made. We can and do go straight to Jesus with anything on our hearts…

Many thanks for the thoughtful and enlightening responses. I believe that I see the Catholic position a little more clearly. I also agree that “end run” is a loaded phrase; my point is that someone not raised Catholic, even a convert, may have a hard time avoiding such an impression–at the visceral level, even if not intellectually.

As for Question #3, a role played by Mary that isn’t touched upon by the Triune God? Good question here, but we’d have to get into semantics to answer it, and that would bring up more debate than anything else. We might start talking about Mary the Mother of God, as opposed to God the Father or God the Son or God the Paraclete. But it’s a little academic.

Perhaps. But as the 1st-millennium councils sometimes demonstrated, crucial things can hang upon an academic question. And if a question poses a stumbling block for other Christians, then it probably needs addressing, however academic.

I think that the thrust of your question is “What’s the point of praying to Mary when you can pray to Jesus himself?”

Oh dear–what an old Protestant debating point. And how unoriginal I suddenly feel! I’d hoped to be a little subtler than that (no law against hoping). In my defence, if that’s really the question I’m asking, I’m not asking it rhetorically or dismissively: is there, in the view of Catholic dogma or popular belief, something to be gained from Mary’s intercession that would be an iffier proposition if we merely prayed to her Son? If so, what?

Any thoughts on Adoni’jah?

Only this: without denying the worth of OT typology, I’d say that a Davidic precedent isn’t an ironclad guarantee of doctrinal soundness. Some OT persons or institutions can justly be considered types of something else in the New Covenant, but no one imagines the parallels to be perfect, and no one can systematically enumerate where the parallels begin and end. The Davidic precedent enriches our perceptions of Christ, but using it to prove theological points seems like a dubious business.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Jesus is from the Davidic Kingdom and during the Davidic Kingdom all Jewish Kings had mothers as their Queen. Therefore, Mary is the Queen of Heaven. Jesus belongs to the Davidic Line and he inherited the Kingdom. I don’t think Jesus would discontinue this tradition.

Actually, Jesus is from the kingdom of God, and His kingdom is the kingdom of God.

You did not respond to my statement about scripture interpreting scripture; in this case, the “queen of heaven,” scripture defines that term negatively in its only use of the term in Jer 7
and 44.

Non-Catholic often use the term in Jer 7 and 44 to cite refute the Catholic claim of Mary as the Queen of Heaven, which is not true. You should also read the context of Jer 7 at the time it was written and not place modern intrepretation of today.

Correct me if I misunderstood you.

That is certainly an interesting interpretation, but what happens to the woman as the chapter continues makes that questionable; it is, after all, a “sign” symbolizing something; what follows is the woman fleeing to the wilderness where she is cared for by God for three-and-one-half years as the adversary pursues her; do you believe that Mary will be returning to the earth bodily at some point for three-and-one-half years to be pursued by Satan and protected by God?

The book of Revelation is full of symbolism. The interpretation of the woman clothed with the sun is Mary is correct. In other intrepretation this woman can also be the Church, which is viewed often as the Bride of Christ.

I believe that EVERYONE will be reunited with their bodies and be judge by God according to their deeds. Jesus will return just as he promised.

You are correct that Jesus’ Kingdom is the Kingdom in Heaven.

Mary who was bodily assumed into heaven and the saints are in heaven. The question of her returning is not taught in the Catholic Church. In fact this is the first I heard such claim.

David Currie’s book RAPTURE: The End Times Error That Leaves The Bible Behind intreprets the woman as both Mary and the Church.

Currie’s intrepretation states that the woman is the Church runing away from Emperor of Rome, Nero. He was the first Emperor who blamed Christians for the fire in Rome. The Jewish Leaders at the time were envies of the Christians and conspire to make Christians as the scap coat. Nero persecuted the Christians until the Emperor himself descretated the Jewish Temple by putting a statue of himself and demanded to be worship.

This started the Jewish Revolt in 68 A.D (unsure about the date).

The Emperor stop the Christian persecution and send his Army to invade Judea and suppressed the Rebellion. Nero died when the Roman Praetorian Guard assassinated him. He was succeeded by another Emperor who in 70 A.D destroyed the Temple.

During the Jewish Revolt, all the Christians fled and not one Christian was killed. The Church was protected just as the Revelation stated and this prohecy was fulfilled.

If you want to go in-dep in the book you can read the book. amazon.com/Rapture-End-Times-Error-Leaves-Behind/dp/1928832725/sr=1-2/qid=1158374441/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-7561705-0879308?ie=UTF8&s=books.

I don’t expect you to be converted by David Currie who was a Former Evangelical Christian turn Catholic makes very convincing remarks of the Rapture Theory and End Times Scenario.

 

[sandusky]

Mannyfit75:

Non-Catholic often use the term in Jer 7 and 44 to cite refute the Catholic claim of Mary as the Queen of Heaven, which is not true. You should also read the context of Jer 7 at the time it was written and not place modern intrepretation of today.

You misunderstand me with regard to Jer 7 & 44; I am not using them to refute anything about Mary; what I am saying is that if you believe in scripture interpreting scripture, and in scripture defining terms, then your use of the term “queen of heaven” is striking; scripture defines “queen of heaven” negatively, and God punished those devoted to the “queen of heaven.”

Mannyfit75:

The book of Revelation is full of symbolism. The interpretation of the woman clothed with the sun is Mary is correct. In other intrepretation this woman can also be the Church, which is viewed often as the Bride of Christ.

Mary who was bodily assumed into heaven and the saints are in heaven. The question of her returning is not taught in the Catholic Church. In fact this is the first I heard such claim.

Your interpretation of the woman in Rev 12 is a Catholic presupposition, as is your interpretation that the woman is the church. That is why I asked you if you believe that Mary will be returning to earth bodily, and fleeing to the wilderness for 3 ½ years to be protected by God, as the woman in Rev 12 does.

As far as the woman being the church, I doubt it; again, if we use scripture to interpret and define scripture, then the woman cannot be the church as the church is never referred to as “a woman,” but as Christ’s “body,” and His “bride.”

Israel is referred to as a woman (Is 54:5, 6; Jer 3:6, 8; 31:32; Eze 16:32; Hos 2:16), and is also the giver of Christ and is often described as a mother giving birth (Is 26:17, 18; 54:1; 66:7-12; Hos 13:13; Mic 4:10; 5:2,3; Mt 24:8). My vote for the woman in Rev 12 is Israel at the mid-point of the seven year tribulation, the “time of Jacob’s trouble.”

Mannyfit75:

David Currie’s book RAPTURE: The End Times Error That Leaves The Bible Behind intreprets the woman as both Mary and the Church.

Currie’s intrepretation states that the woman is the Church runing away from Emperor of Rome, Nero. He was the first Emperor who blamed Christians for the fire in Rome. The Jewish Leaders at the time were envies of the Christians and conspire to make Christians as the scap coat. Nero persecuted the Christians until the Emperor himself descretated the Jewish Temple by putting a statue of himself and demanded to be worship.

During the Jewish Revolt, all the Christians fled and not one Christian was killed. The Church was protected just as the Revelation stated and this prohecy was fulfilled.

Sounds like Mr. Currie is a preterist; I am not, and I believe that those events spoken of in revelation have yet to happen.

As far as not one Christian being killed in Nero’s persecution, that is false; many Christians died at Nero’s hand.

 

[Mannyfit75]

You misunderstand me with regard to Jer 7 & 44; I am not using them to refute anything about Mary; what I am saying is that if you believe in scripture interpreting scripture, and in scripture defining terms, then your use of the term “queen of heaven” is striking; scripture defines “queen of heaven” negatively, and God punished those devoted to the “queen of heaven.”

Your interpretation of the woman in Rev 12 is a Catholic presupposition, as is your interpretation that the woman is the church. That is why I asked you if you believe that Mary will be returning to earth bodily, and fleeing to the wilderness for 3 ½ years to be protected by God, as the woman in Rev 12 does.

As far as the woman being the church, I doubt it; again, if we use scripture to interpret and define scripture, then the woman cannot be the church as the church is never referred to as “a woman,” but as Christ’s “body,” and His “bride.”

Israel is referred to as a woman (Is 54:5, 6; Jer 3:6, 8; 31:32; Eze 16:32; Hos 2:16), and is also the giver of Christ and is often described as a mother giving birth (Is 26:17, 18; 54:1; 66:7-12; Hos 13:13; Mic 4:10; 5:2,3; Mt 24:8). My vote for the woman in Rev 12 is Israel at the mid-point of the seven year tribulation, the “time of Jacob’s trouble.”

Sounds like Mr. Currie is a preterist; I am not, and I believe that those events spoken of in revelation have yet to happen.

As far as not one Christian being killed in Nero’s persecution, that is false; many Christians died at Nero’s hand.

You mis-quoted me. I said that Christian Presecution started with Nero and briefly ended when the Jewish revolt errupted in 67-70 A.D. I did fail to mention that Christians were persecuted.

But in David Currie’s book, in Jerusalem not one Christian was killed in then Jewish War. There are historical reference that support this. The Romans beliefly stop the Christian persecution but resumed again after the successor of Nero.

After Nero, he was succeeded by another emperor and resume presecution. Christian prersecution ended when Emperor Constantine issued the Eddict that gave Christians freedom to worship.

David Currie’s book cite sources that most of the Revelation is fulfilled with the exception of Jesus Christ Second Coming.

I do recommend the book. I don’t expect you to be convince but he makes a good intrepretation on the Book of Daniel and Book of Revelation.

 

[Mannyfit75]

You misunderstand me with regard to Jer 7 & 44; I am not using them to refute anything about Mary; what I am saying is that if you believe in scripture interpreting scripture, and in scripture defining terms, then your use of the term “queen of heaven” is striking; scripture defines “queen of heaven” negatively, and God punished those devoted to the “queen of heaven.”

Your interpretation of the woman in Rev 12 is a Catholic presupposition, as is your interpretation that the woman is the church. That is why I asked you if you believe that Mary will be returning to earth bodily, and fleeing to the wilderness for 3 ½ years to be protected by God, as the woman in Rev 12 does.

As far as the woman being the church, I doubt it; again, if we use scripture to interpret and define scripture, then the woman cannot be the church as the church is never referred to as “a woman,” but as Christ’s “body,” and His “bride.”

Israel is referred to as a woman (Is 54:5, 6; Jer 3:6, 8; 31:32; Eze 16:32; Hos 2:16), and is also the giver of Christ and is often described as a mother giving birth (Is 26:17, 18; 54:1; 66:7-12; Hos 13:13; Mic 4:10; 5:2,3; Mt 24:8). My vote for the woman in Rev 12 is Israel at the mid-point of the seven year tribulation, the “time of Jacob’s trouble.”

That intrepetation is also correct. Like I said the Book of Revelation is filled with symbolic term meaning. If you do put the Dragon, the Child, and Woman in individual terms, you can easily identify them as Satan, Jesus, and Mary.

If you look further down the text, the Child is the King of Kings, Lord of Lords. Who is the King of Kings? Jesus Christ.

Sounds like Mr. Currie is a preterist; I am not, and I believe that those events spoken of in revelation have yet to happen.

As far as not one Christian being killed in Nero’s persecution, that is false; many Christians died at Nero’s hand.

I don’t expect you to believe but consider reading the book. I assumed you believe in the Rapture Theory.

 

[valient_Lucy]

5th Decade of the Glorious Mysteries of the Holy Rosary: The Ordination of Mary, Queen of Heaven.
Yep - she is.

Mary was Assumed to Heaven, but she was NOT ordained.

 

[LilyM]

The correct term is Coronation (as in every Queen gets crowned in a Coronation ceremony!)

Being from a country which (sadly) is still a monarchy we know these sort of things

 

[Hastrman]

Being from a country which (sadly) is still a monarchy we know these sort of things

Two words: Hanoverian succession.

Anyway, of course Mary is Queen of Heaven if her Son is the King–what Jewish man, ascending to a high post, would not take care of his mother? Or, as I once explained Mary’s intercessory power, Jesus is a good Jewish boy who listens to His mother.

Aside, of course, from the more subtle and intelligent answers concerning her status as Theotokos and Mediatrix of All Graces, Highest of Created Things, and (my personal favorite) Queen Who Crushes the Head of the Snake.

Also, she identified herself as Queen to St. Juan Diego, when she told him to say In tlatoca ciuapilli–this is the image of the Queen–when presenting the tilma bearing her image to the Bishop. The Guadalupana’s Nahuatl title is Ciuapiltzin Coatlaxopeuh, Honored Queen Snake’s-Head-She-Crushes.

 

[LilyM]

Two words: Hanoverian succession.

Two other words: Republican [CENSORED] referendum … in 1999, what a debacle that was

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Wouldn’t that be a requisite?

To be the mother of a king, she must be a queen.

Possibly repeating a previous post, but it works for me.

Z

Not necessarily - King David was a king, but his mother was not a queen.​

In that world, kingship by could be by:

• succession to kingship by the firstborn (some kings of Judah)
• choice of his successor by a reigning ruler (David chose Solomon)
• election by a god (as with David)
• usurpation (some of the kings of Israel; such as Jehu)
• the human politics could be presented as the action of a god: so there are even more possibilities
  Succession by birth, and the legitimacy it conferred, could easily be got over by saying that a reigning monarch or reigning family was hateful to the national god; success in dethroning a monarch could then be interpreted as acceptance of the usurper by the god(s). The kingship of Jesus is founded as much upon his election by God, as upon his descent, which complicates things.

Israelite royal theology was based not only upon the promises made by a god, but also upon a covenant: especially that made with David; which is one of the roots of the Messianic idea.

Mary seems not to be treated as queen mother even in Matthew’s gospel, which is full of hints that Jesus is King & Messiah. Luke’s first chapter presents her visit to Elizabeth as like the entrance of the Ark of the Covenant into Jerusalem (2 Samuel 6). ##

 

[kleary]

i’m not sure she is.
i haven’t really found anything in the bible saying that Mary is the queen of heaven or she ascended into heaven instead of dying either

2 timothy 3:16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Hi Benni - you forgot to show us where Scripture says that all truth revealed by God is in Scripture. I am still trying to find the table of contents that will tell me what books contain Scripture… oh here it is on page #1 - Look Benny - I found a truth revealed by God on page #1 and IT IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE.

So for you to say “I do not think she is because it says nothing about it in Scripture” is to use a false premise to identify truth. It would be somewhat different if you could find a page in Scripture that would identify which books are Scripture.

Ken

 

[JoeyWarren]

Originally Posted by BennyD
i’m not sure she is.
i haven’t really found anything in the bible saying that Mary is the queen of heaven or she ascended into heaven instead of dying either

Let’s remedy your ignorance and misinformation, I can guess you are getting your information from Satanic Sources.

It is true that Mary did not ascend into heaven, because that is not what the RCC teaches.

The RCC teaches that she was ASSUMED into heaven. Only Christ ASCENDED into Heaven.

The RCC does not teach that she did not die. The RCC teaches that she did not undergo the corruption of the grave.

Yes there is evidence in the Bible that Mary is Queen of Heaven.
It’s in the 12th Chapter of Revelations. She is shown immediately after the Ark of the Covenant is shown.

We know from history that the Ark dissappeared and later John shows us in Revelations that it is in the Temple of God in Heaven. So assumption goes that it was Assumed into Heaven.

The Ark of the Covenant is the foreshadowing of Mary.

Actually there is but it is gleamed from scripture just as the Belief in a Trinitarian God is gleamed from scripture.