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twf
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Interesting. I could have sworn I read that they weren’t marred in the Church. Good to know.
Is Mass regularly celebrated in the White House?
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CRM_Brother
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To answer your question, it depends upon the administration.
I’ve met the Catholic White House Chaplain under President George W. Bush and he gave us (we were part of the discernment group at Catholic University in DC) an overview of the various role the Catholic Chaplaincy has had over the years. Mass and access to the White House varies from president to president. The chaplains do, however, have a strict rule that Mass is never to be said privately for an individual, even if that individual is the president. Apparently, JFK had a problem with this. When the chaplain said that he would say a public Mass on Sunday for everyone at the White House, JFK raised a stink because he wouldn’t be given preference over the other members of the staff at the Mass. Instead, he opted to go to the DC Catholic Cathedral where the Archbishop allowed a number of pews at the front of the Church to be cordoned off for security reasons every Sunday.
Some administrations did not want any Mass to be celebrated on White House Grounds, some had the mass in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, while others had the Mass in the White House itself.
The White House chaplains are always on-call and given a certain level of security clearance due to their need to hear confessions in which a penitent may confess something he or she did in a classified situation. There were times when the Chaplain giving the talk had to wait outside the elevators to the tactical bunker for members of the staff to come up one at a time, give their confession, and then he would tell them to send the next one up once they reentered the bunker. He said that in those situations, it was always a long night. If the situation was bad enough that one staffer needed confession, then he knew that a good number of them would need the sacrament before the situation had passed.
I’ve met the Catholic White House Chaplain under President George W. Bush and he gave us (we were part of the discernment group at Catholic University in DC) an overview of the various role the Catholic Chaplaincy has had over the years. Mass and access to the White House varies from president to president. The chaplains do, however, have a strict rule that Mass is never to be said privately for an individual, even if that individual is the president. Apparently, JFK had a problem with this. When the chaplain said that he would say a public Mass on Sunday for everyone at the White House, JFK raised a stink because he wouldn’t be given preference over the other members of the staff at the Mass. Instead, he opted to go to the DC Catholic Cathedral where the Archbishop allowed a number of pews at the front of the Church to be cordoned off for security reasons every Sunday.
Some administrations did not want any Mass to be celebrated on White House Grounds, some had the mass in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, while others had the Mass in the White House itself.
The White House chaplains are always on-call and given a certain level of security clearance due to their need to hear confessions in which a penitent may confess something he or she did in a classified situation. There were times when the Chaplain giving the talk had to wait outside the elevators to the tactical bunker for members of the staff to come up one at a time, give their confession, and then he would tell them to send the next one up once they reentered the bunker. He said that in those situations, it was always a long night. If the situation was bad enough that one staffer needed confession, then he knew that a good number of them would need the sacrament before the situation had passed.
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Cirdan_XII
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Would any condemnation of sin not be a private matter between the person and their confessor, and thus not be the subject of any public announcement?
In other words, we wouldn’t know.
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Aulef
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Good question. In other times, the Holy Church would lose a whole nation instead of betraying the Christ teachings it guards. The most famous case is England, whose king wanted to divorce and become and adulterer and the Church said “no way, Christ never allows this”.
The president where I live is living with a woman who isn’t his original wife. She is officially the First Lady. I would really like to see him repent and change this situation…
The president where I live is living with a woman who isn’t his original wife. She is officially the First Lady. I would really like to see him repent and change this situation…
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John_Martin
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When a sin is public, notice of correction is also public. How many remarried Catholics will be caused to stumble if for Trump we pretend there is no adultery and publicly give communion? How many will think the Catholic church is all Republican politics? And why is a vice President held to a higher standard about not being allowed to receive communion publicly (Biden)?
According to these articles, Karen was married before (doesn’t say whether it was canonical form or not), then divorced, then married Mike in the Catholic Church.twf:
Mike and Karen are lapsed (“repurposed” is possibly a better adjective) Catholics.
[EDITED] I just now looked it up, and apparently they were married in the Catholic Church. So it’s all good, nothing to see here, their marriage is valid. We just need to get them back to Catholic practice, be as evangelical as you want to be within the bounds of Catholic orthodoxy, just come back to the sacraments. Prayers for both of them.
Karen and Mike Pence Struggled With Infertility. Shouldn’t They Be More Empathetic Around Reproductive Freedom?
Mike Pence and Karen Whitaker’s courtship was a whirlwind. Nine months after they started dating, the future vice president hollowed out two loaves of...
What?
Where did a cop enter this scenario, and where are you getting this about the president “swapping over to civilian clothes”? The president does not wear a uniform. All of his clothes are “civilian clothes”. We are not some military dictatorship with the comandante-en-jefe wearing epaulets and medals with the national sash over top of everything.
If done on a weekly basis, that would create massive ongoing security problems in today’s environment.
I didn’t know the White House had a Catholic chaplain. Good to know. As noted above, JFK’s scenario couldn’t happen today.
I know there is a school of thought that says “my sins, or anyone else’s, are none of anybody’s business”. But they are. Thomas Merton said that his sins were enough to cause the Second World War. If that were true, yep, I think the whole world would have definitely had a bone to pick with Thomas.John_Martin:
Would any condemnation of sin not be a private matter between the person and their confessor, and thus not be the subject of any public announcement?
In other words, we wouldn’t know.
In the General Judgment, everybody’s sins will be everybody else’s business — something about all secrets being known and none being hidden. When I sin, according to contemporary Catholic theology, I injure the entire Body of Christ. Modern concepts of confession have as one of their elements “reconciliation with the community”. And many sins have a visible, tangible effect upon others, even in this life. When people are publicly known to be divorced and invalidly married, they are telegraphing to the whole world “hey, this is okay, never mind what the Church teaches”. Scripture warns us not to scandalize the weak. Our Lord has very strong words about millstones.
There’s nothing about “publicly giving communion” here, but if there were, that would only underscore what I just said.
Canon 915. He is a public sinner in the matter of abortion if anyone ever were. This is not a judgment on his soul or conscience, just an objective fact. What if Hitler had gone to Mass and presented himself for communion? Would we say “not to judge, it’s nobody’s business”? Not hardly! And Hitler was Catholic, a pretty bad one, but still Catholic.
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rosejmj
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Even if Melania is Catholic, I would be surprised if she’s practicing. Even if she happened to attend mass with Trump, I doubt it would do anything to influence him. I’m sure he’d be respectful, but it’s just some random church service to him, I don’t think he takes Christianity too seriously. You already have to be open to Christianity and exploring it seriously before there is any way you have a chance to convert by your own will. Most people just aren’t that interested in religion to care enough or to see a reason to study religion or explore it to find the “true” one. Christianity is often just a cultural thing where people believe in Jesus and the Bible just because everyone around them does but often don’t go to Church or live any more moral lives than an atheist
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The first time I attended Mass, I didn’t take it too seriously either, and it was little more than just “some random church service” to me. Mass pours out graces like an open fire hydrant gushes water. You just never know.
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CRM_Brother
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Yes. I was surprised too. Under some presidents (including George W Bush), the Chaplain became somewhat of an unofficial advisor on the effect of legislation and judicial rulings to the president. Both George Bush Sr. and Jr. would sometimes call the Chaplain in for a gauge on how proposed legislation would impact the Catholic population. Jr. actually began to call the Chaplain in for spiritual advice as well, despite not even being Catholic.
This would give disciples of Paul Blanshard conniption fits, but it makes me very happy.HomeschoolDad:
Yes. I was surprised too. Under some presidents (including George W Bush), the Chaplain became somewhat of an unofficial advisor on the effect of legislation and judicial rulings to the president. Both George Bush Sr. and Jr. would sometimes call the Chaplain in for a gauge on how proposed legislation would impact the Catholic population. Jr. actually began to call the Chaplain in for spiritual advice as well, despite not even being Catholic.
Not to be pedantic, but GWB (“Dubya” or “43”) is not a “junior”. Dad was George Herbert Walker Bush. Son is George Walker Bush.
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John_Martin
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Yes he is,
Trump’s wife, as Catholic, is a public sinner in publicly marrying a thrice divorced man, Trump, if anyone ever were so publicly visible. This is not a judgement on her soul or conscience, just an objective fact visible to all Catholics everywhere who will see that they can be afforded the same leniency granted the visible objective reality in the white house.
We consider “unknowns” to the public eye to be public sinners if re-marriage apart from annulments, so what is the problem with this case?
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twf
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I hope for the conversion of all people…so that includes President Trump…but I have noticed some bizarre “wishful thinking” in some Catholic quarters when it comes to him. I remember Fr. Z had a blog post about how he (or someone he knew?) gave Trump a Rosary, and there was a poster who said something like “imagine the massive worldwide impacting decisions that might be made as he holds those Rosary beads!” Then we had someone here at CAF speculating that he might be wearing a scapular. I’m just left scratching my head…his public professions of Christianity are superficial and very generic at best. When he’s been pushed to quote or reference a favorite Bible verse, its clear he doesn’t have any real knowledge of the Bible at all. In an interview in 2016, he explicitly said he’s never asked God for forgiveness and sees no need to do so. He’s objectively a public adulterer. His tweets and other public statements are routinely very much at odds with basic Catholic charity. YES, I get it, he opposes most (but not all!) legalized abortion, and that is truly wonderful…but that doesn’t mean he’s suddenly a quasi-closet-Catholic. …of course, miracles can happen…but I still see a lot of “wishful thinking” on this topic.
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Pitcairn17
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Given the atmosphere then, I think the JFK issue is much more likely to have been reluctance to have any Mass in the White House, lest that be seen as the first Catholic president confirming the anti-Catholic paranoia of the times. Most have forgotten the “Vatican running the White House” concerns of the times.
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CRM_Brother
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If that was JFK’s intent, then he would actually be more likely to attend the regular (at that time) Mass at the White House. The White House Mass continued under JFK’s presidency, even when he did not attend them. There had been an official Catholic Chaplain since FDR and the Masses were already a semi regular occurance when JFK took office. If he was concerned about his public image as a Catholic, then he would not have publically attended Mass every Sunday when he was in DC at the Catholic Cathedral and had an area of the Church specifically reserved for him and his family.
I’m not clear what you are saying in this last sentence. We do not go to Mass so that other people will see us going, but it seems to me that he would want to be known as a practicing Catholic, and would not shy away from being seen in public at Mass. Back in those days, Catholics would have severely disapproved of a Catholic president not going to Mass, and would have been very edified to see him going. Actually, I thought he regularly attended St Stephen Martyr Church on Pennsylvania Avenue (a church I have attended myself).
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CRM_Brother
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The public concern over JFK being Catholic was the rumors that the Vatican was trying to manipulate JFK’s presidency. In the politics of the time, a president being “beholden” to the whims of the Pope through threat of excommunication was a somewhat widespread conspiracy theory among his opponents during his presidency. This was the public Catholic image I was referring to. He didn’t care if he was seen attending Mass on a regular basis, although this act was used as supposed “evidence” of his fealty to Rome. If he was concerned with these rumors, it would have been easier to just go to the White House Mass and hide his attendance from the public.
As to St. Stephen Martyr, that is usually where the White House Chaplain is stationed. JFK did, indeed, often go to Mass there. If he was present in DC and not in meetings, he would go with his family to the Cathedral for Sunday Mass. If he was traveling or had meetings scheduled for the family’s usual Mass time, then he would attend Mass alone either the day before or day after at St. Stephen Martyr. As it was a parish, it had the ability to schedule a Mass at whatever time the pastor wished, so JFK was able to fit it into his schedule. This option was not available to the Chaplain to the White House as it was not a formal parish.
As to St. Stephen Martyr, that is usually where the White House Chaplain is stationed. JFK did, indeed, often go to Mass there. If he was present in DC and not in meetings, he would go with his family to the Cathedral for Sunday Mass. If he was traveling or had meetings scheduled for the family’s usual Mass time, then he would attend Mass alone either the day before or day after at St. Stephen Martyr. As it was a parish, it had the ability to schedule a Mass at whatever time the pastor wished, so JFK was able to fit it into his schedule. This option was not available to the Chaplain to the White House as it was not a formal parish.
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Ah, yes, the old “fear of a Catholic majority” thing, accompanied by the idea of “we want to fit in and be like everyone else, we want everyone else to like us, we’re moving out to the suburbs and we want our piece of the American Dream”. Truth is, if you read the Catholic social encyclicals, and delve a bit into Catholic thought, as a non-Catholic, you come to realize that if Catholics follow the Church’s teachings, yes, they are going to try to “restore all things in Christ” according to a Catholic vision of society, and if they were ever a majority… shudder… so JFK had to jump through hoops to convince a skeptical electorate that no, your worst fever dreams will never come true. He really needn’t have bothered (other than to say the things that were needed to get elected) — it wasn’t long until “someone slammed the oven door”, and everything the Catholic Church had built in this country fell like a cake, compared to its glory days after WWII and through the 1950s. A couple more generations, and… but it was not to be.
The likes of a Paul Blanshard and his acolytes wouldn’t have much to fear anymore. Catholics pretty much do whatever they want to, and there are relatively few of us who want to work to bring Catholic and Christian principles into the social order. I’m sure they are very thankful that Catholic birth rates fell just like that cake I mentioned above.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
He went to Holy Trinity in Georgetown as a senator and probably sometimes after that. There is a commemorative marker for him there. I seem to recall it marks the pew where he sat with his family.
He also went to St. Stephen Martyr and St. Matt’s Cathedral.
Not sure why he would go clear over to St. Stephen Martyr when many other churches were closer. Maybe it was for security reasons.
He also went to St. Stephen Martyr and St. Matt’s Cathedral.
Not sure why he would go clear over to St. Stephen Martyr when many other churches were closer. Maybe it was for security reasons.
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I checked it out on a map (and from memory) and SSM probably is just about the closest church, or at least not much farther away, maybe a block or two, than any other, and it’s a straight shot down Pennsylvania Avenue. It is also a more modern church in terms of construction, and possibly had architectural elements that made it easier for Secret Service to use. Hard to say.
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