Is Masturbation a sin?

[Primrose]

Thankyou Grace.

It isn’t an easy subject but I’m glad we can talk about it. It is one things that the Catholic church can be proud of, They’re not afraid to tell people God’s rules and advice on those subjects other denominations don’t want to touch.

Primrose

 

[jweich]

I am saying, that sex is becoming something hidden in our society.

Pax Christi

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I’m sorry for jumping in here, I didn’t read to the end of the thread, but I started from the beginning and came upon this… and almost fell out of my chair.

Turn on any television, look at any billboard, open any magazine, any newspaper, or talk to any high schooler or college student… in essence, open your eyes to the reality of the world outside your front door, and this assertion will be blasted to bits in a matter of seconds. You can probably see more skin, and hear more talk about sex (usual casual, promiscuous sex) by opening your ears and eyes today than at few points before in human history. Our culture has defined itself by making sex a cheap, available commodity. Hidden and secretive, it is definitely not.

Sex, as our culture sees it, has become something distorted, ugly, and selfish. But one thing it is definitively and decidedly not, is hidden. This is a baseless, and typically liberal, assertion, that those of us with conservative sexual mores are interested in shrinking from or hiding from the truth about sex, when really I think its the other way around. I think the liberal view shrinks from the reality that human beings that are more than just sex objects, and have ‘needs’ that are more than just physical.

Sheesh. Maybe this was addressed, and if so, I’m sorry. I seriously almost fell out of my chair at the idea that sex is ‘hidden’ in our culture. If only. More of a sense that it is a private matter would only help our situation.

 

[jweich]

Don’t dismiss the writings of Rev. Charles Curran. He has many valid points as to why the Church hierarchy has been unwilling to take a new look at the many rules that have been pronounced regarding sexual morality.
QUOTE]

There are no “new rules” regarding sexual morality.

There is only the reality that God created us male and female for union. We are meant to love as God loves. Our sexuality is intended that we can image God’s love for another in life-giving self gift.

Every ‘rule’ is really just defining an aspect of that reality. If it contradicts that reality, as do sexual acts not ordered toward marital union, then it hurts us spiritually, offends God, and makes us worse off. If it isn’t oriented toward the potential to co-create with God, then its inverted, selfish, and contrary to human nature.

We need to reject the idea that we “aren’t allowed” to do something that could be potentially beneficial. If it separates us from God, and makes us less than fully human, then it isn’t beneficial, in any sense.

 

[Joe_5859]

Sinning in order to relieve tension… its like drinking salt water in order to relieve thirst.

I just have to say that this is an awesome analogy! It pretty much sums the whole thing up.

Just because something is difficult does not mean that it still isn’t the right thing to do. I can understand and sympathize with those who have wives with sex drives much lower than their own. I also sympathize with those who are older and accustomed to a certain amount of marital intimacy who find themselves in situations (through death or sickness) where it is not possible to partake of the marital embrace with as great a frequency.

But our age or our individual situation does not somehow dispense us from the serious moral obligation to exercise self-control and live a moral life. Can it be hard to overcome this sin? Absolutely! Sin is often difficult to overcome. But that doesn’t somehow make a sin anything other than a sin!

I’m speaking generally here, so please don’t think I’m singling out anyone in particular. Of course, if we do sin, we certainly should not despair. We simply go to the Sacrament of Confession and keep trying to do better!

 

[PennitentMan]

Dear pennitentman…

So now you teach “sola scriptura”, is that it?
.

Hi Grace.

You are right.

I think I have been hurt far too much to offer any sort of feedback or (name removed by moderator)ut.

To the OP: I appologise for my post, leading you astray, please disregard.

In Christ,
PM

 

[jweich]

The fact that the sin is so obscurely reasoned out as being immoral,

This is kind of a paradox. To say something is sin is to say that it is immoral; it’s two ways of saying the same thing.

the fact that people and marraiges suffer becasue of this rigorous affirmations, shows me that maybe they can care a bit more…

This poor man is aching and yearning and there is no hope for finding peace in these teachings.

The crux of this argument is here, in the suggestion that it would be helpful to this man, and to marriages in general, if this “rule” didn’t exist. Like I said before, this isn’t about rules, per se. The “rules” spring from a particular, and fundamentally Christian, way of looking at the human and body, and why* God made us male and female. We believe that physical sexual gratification is no end in itself - and if we try to make it so, we end up emptier and more lonely, because we have used this capacity for union that we have in us as sexual beings, for a purpose other than union.

The deepest human desire, from a Christian perspective, is for union, and our sexual urges indicate as much. When we seek satisfaction outside of that goal, outside of that expression of union, we not only fail to achieve that deepest of human desires, but lead ourselves further away from it.

I do also find it interesting when people claim that Church teaching on sexuality has done so much harm, when all the harm that they point to - sexual abuse, disrespect of women, clergy abuse - are definitively deviations from that very teaching.

There is hope for all of us in the teaching to view our bodies with a radical potential for life-giving love, the denial of which leaves us without that love; it is out of fear and lack of faith to think otherwise.

I should make this quote my signature, as it is so good but unfortunately so often used it becomes cliche. Ponder it again: “The Christian ideal hasn’t been tried and failed, it has been found difficult and left untried.” - My idol G.K.C.

This is rarely truer than in the realm of human sexual relations.*

 

[GraceDK]

Pennitentman… :console:
brother… I hurt for you, I really do. And I don’t mean to sound harsh. I do not judge you for being exhausted from all the trial…
but I wish you find peace somewhere.

As for me… I think that if I accept masturbation then the logical consequence is that I must also accept homosexual men and women having sex with one another. that is the logic I have which is why I am also strongly against it…
not only because I feel in my gut that it is wrong.

Jesus bless you… I wish you rest in his arms.

Grace …

 

[eudaimoniaisnow]

The Church says that Masturbation is a sin because is violates the natural law because natural law demands that an act must be in accord with its essence. Viz… Sexuality is for the purposes of procreation. Just like eating is for nutrition.

However I have a problem with this idea.

Wet Dreams.
For starters, Masturbation is a part of nature. We have Wet Dreams. Yet St. Augustine says we do not sin in our sleep. But yet St. Thomas tells us all acts either give glory to or are displeasing to God. Since, it is not possible for unconscious acts to displease God, that must mean that unconscious acts give glory to God. Therefore when we masturbate in our sleep we give glory to God. Yet if we do it when we are awake we will go to hell???

Bubble Gum
Next, I have a problem with the idea that all sexuality must be for procreation. The notion that each act has a singular essence and to deviate from that essence breaks down when you take it to its logical extension. Eating for example. If the purpose of eating is for nutrition, then to eat for the pleasure of eating is sinful. For instance, chewing bubble gum should be considered a grave sin. How about having sex with your pregnant wife? Clearly she can’t conceive again, so your just having sex for the secondary effects of sex, and thus missing its “primary essence” so that should be wrong. Yet the Church teaches that one gains graces when one has sex in a marital relationship, even if your wife’ s pregnant.

You can’t just say because God says so
The reason the Church embraces Natural Law theory is because one must be able to come to moral conclusions using one’s reason. The problem with Divine Command Theory is that if you say something is wrong simply because God says so, is that what if God told you to go rape a little boy, would it be the right thing to do? But you may reply, God is all good, He would never tell us to do that. Okay, what if He told you to kill an entire population including women and innocent children? But He wouldn’t do that! Yes, He would because He did. Read the Old Testament.

 

[BRB]

Next, I have a problem with the idea that all sexuality must be for procreation. How about having sex with your pregnant wife? Clearly she can’t conceive again, so your just having sex for the secondary effects of sex, and thus missing its “primary essence” so that should be wrong. Yet the Church teaches that one gains graces when one has sex in a marital relationship, even if your wife’ s pregnant.

.

Just like Church accepts rhythm method of B.C. If done properly … rhythm method can be 90 % effective.

Now if God knows a couple is consistently using the Rhythm method when having sex … would He be upset with us ?

The primary factor of sex is the mutual aspect of it in marriage setting. God made sex to be pleasureable … for our enjoyment. Foreplay is not forbidden … that I’m aware of. Sooner or later one will make a mistake with the calendar … and a pregnancy will result. All well and good.

Any sex that is self-centered …or outside of marriage is sinful.

 

[eudaimoniaisnow]

My point was: You just the “primary purpose of sexuality” argument to say that masturbation is wrong because sex for pleasure in the context of the pregnant wife, is perfectly fine. Just like chewing bubble gum is perfectly fine.

 

[BRB]

My point was: You just the “primary purpose of sexuality” argument to say that masturbation is wrong because sex for pleasure in the context of the pregnant wife, is perfectly fine. Just like chewing bubble gum is perfectly fine.

IMO …if a man/wife are having foreplay and he spills seed … its probably not a sin. Onan intended to spill his seed … so his wrong intensions got him in trouble with God.

Couples shouldn’t make a habit of this … its only for occasions when for medical or other reasons, normal I.C. isn’t an option. Foreplay that can’t be controlled … is too out of control, and should be curtailed.

 

[larry85704]

Ok, you holders of western thought, consider this.

A priest once told me that western thought was concerned about the details, or events, or thoughts, in life. Eastern thought is concerned about things in a more holistic sense. When I think of sexuality, isn’t the western thought process one that makes you want every sexual encounter to produce an orgasm in both the man and (hopefully) woman? If somebody didn’t have an orgasm then the man, or (hopefully again) woman has a problem, or did something wrong.

My understanding of eastern thought would look at things differently. If the man and woman loves one another, and are happy with their sex life, before, during and after sex then there would be no problem. The presence or lack of orgasms is not important.

Now I don’t know which is right. I think they both have much merit. The Roman Catholic Church tends to use western thought. Perhaps there are times when a little eastern thought needs to be used. I think that if a young couple is taking a shower together and somebody drops a seed or two on the floor, well there are plenty more where that came from. I really don’t think God intended man to have sex only when his wife would get pregnant. If He did then why are there billions of seeds and only one egg?

I think all the teachings of the Church are right if you use western thought. But where is the teaching in the CCC that states a wife must make her husband happy that he is her lover? And where in the CCC does it say that a man must make his wife miss him when he is away?

A couple that have raised children that honor them and God, in my opinion, have used their sexuality as God desired it to be used. Couples that use sex as a weapon, or raise children that are not pleasing to God, have sinned. Frankly, I don’t see how masturbation enters into the subject. I do believe that sexuality is about more than playing with body parts, an it doesn’t matter who does what.

St. Augustine, a smart man for his time, never got the marriage, sex and love thing straight. You certainly cannot hold that against him. So many people today don’t get it either. But Augustine is simply not qualified to speak on something he knows nothing about.

 

[JCnMe]

…I just have to say no one is giving God credit for being able to speak to the individual - and surely an understanding God is perfectly capable of helping someone with pure intentions find comfort from whatever stresses the individual is dealing with…God made us sensory- and if masturbation resolves a need in a loving and caring relationship such as((( Juneboy and his wife)))-then there is no sin-God isn’t cruel…and the Church does not belong in the bedroom of two people who are trying to keep their love alive under very trying circumstances…keep in mind if you judge by the LAW-then by the Law you will be judged… Caring and Loving intent is not sin-but evidence of God’s Mercy for making such alternatives available in a time of need…be kind and merciful in all your ways…(((hugs)))God Bless

 

[averheyen]

Yes.

 

[melissajohn718]

I am 23 years old. I’ve never had a boyfriend… never even had my first kiss. There are many guys who ask me out on dates but I just didn’t like more than a friend so I decided to just stay single. Anyway, last week I actually tried to masturbate… I didn’t do it because I wanted sexual pleasure. I did it because I was just curious to see what was going to happen… I guess I was curious to see biologically what was going to happen if I stimulated that area a little. Kinda like an experiment if you will. I wasn’t intentionally looking to get an orgasm. I just did it for a little and I stopped after cuz I got scared… I started feeling some sort of pleasure and as soon as I did I stopped completely. I only tried it twice but like I said I stopped immediately because I felt guilty. The same day it happened I went to see a priest and I confessed face to face and I told him everything. I didn’t hold back at all and I even started crying. I told him it was curiousity but I stopped myself from going further. First of all, he said… he was shocked that I was 23 and I never did anything like that before. He told me that it was good that I stopped when i realized what I was doing. Would you say this was a grave sin? It doesn’t matter anymore I guess because I did confess the same day it happened but I’m just wondering… in my context, would you say that this took away my virginity?

 

[JCnMe]

((((melissajohn))))…this does not affect your virginity-and you really have to let it go now-this fear and guilt serves no purpose-you have confessed your curiosity and actions…-and need to realize God loves you…try to remember that… -you aren’t damaged goods(((hugs))) God Bless

 

[GraceDK]

Melissa.
Don’t be sad. You have done the right thing by confessing but now you have to do what confession requires: abandon the sin. leave the past behind.

You are right to think that virginity is more than physically having your virginity as some kind of proof. When I was naked with a man when I was 17 years old we did not have sex but only touching but after that I did not call my self a virgin anymore. I felt it would be a hypocritical lie.

You have something priceless in being able to call yourself a virgin. DONT SQUANDER IT. If you start having a masturbation habit you cannot truly call your self an innocent woman anymore.

Inoocense is really the thing that you must strive to keep. Think about it… would you not want your future spouse to take of himself in the same way?

Someone said: Virginity is not a virtue. Chastity is.
Both are priceless jewels… please understand that there are millions of us who would give the world to have what you have…

I give you a page here to encourage you and keep things in perspective…: www.pureloveclub.com

YOU ARE SO BLESSED.

Lots of love…
Grace <><

 

[melissajohn718]

Thank you so much for your love and support!

 

[Joe_5859]

Just like Church accepts rhythm method of B.C. If done properly … rhythm method can be 90 % effective.

FYI, just a point of clarification.

There is a difference between the “Rhythm method” and NFP (Natural Family Planning). Neither are inherently immoral, but one is certainly more effective than the other. The Rhythm method is not nearly as effective as NFP. It generally involves simply counting days and assuming that the woman has a consistent cycle that is the same as every other woman.

NFP involves many things, such as charting temperatures, looking at mucus levels, etc., and gives you a much, much better idea of when the woman is fertile and when she is not. NFP, when properly done, is more than 90% effective. It’s actually about 99% effective.

 

[BRB]

I am 23 years old. I’ve never had a boyfriend… never even had my first kiss. There are many guys who ask me out on dates but I just didn’t like more than a friend so I decided to just stay single. Anyway, last week I actually tried to masturbate…

The same day it happened I went to see a priest and I confessed face to face and I told him everything. I didn’t hold back at all and I even started crying. I told him it was curiousity but I stopped myself from going further. First of all, he said… he was shocked that I was 23 and I never did anything like that before. He told me that it was good that I stopped when i realized what I was doing. ?

Maybe he was more inspired than shocked.

Did he ask you to read Christopher West’s book on Theology of the Body … as part of your penance ?