Is masturbation a sin?

[Tim_D]

If one dies outside of the state of grace, in unrepented mortal sin. Hell is the destination.
That is as Catholic as it gets.
One must die in a state of grace for purgatory and/or heaven.
Do you understand it that way?

I think that I have said as much.

 

[Tim_D]

It means what I said.

That masturbation is a mortals sin - objectively.

God teaches us this through his Church.

This is not about subjective culpability.

But the nature of the act itself. Removed from any particular person. See my longer posts above.

No offense but I didn’t think that your post hit the mark the first time…going back to it isn’t going to help.

Sentence fragments do not make for a convincing argument, either.

 

[Bookcat]

Will Catholics ever get over this desire to parse all sins into being either “venial” or “mortal?”

Huh?

It is simply the truth and a very important truth.

It is quote important to know what is mortal sin and what is venial sin.

All sin is sin, though in differing degrees.

No actually not. Difference in kind. In reality.

There is an abyss that separates mortal sin and venial sin.

Like saying death from cancer is the same as a cut on the finger or a bad cold.

What you have listed above are sins of grave matter but the blanket term of “mortal” neither makes sense nor helps to understand the subject.

Yes grave matter.

And yes objectively mortal sin.

As I noted above the OP was not asking about culpability but about the nature of the sin.

And that is its nature.

And the other examples too.

This is the teaching of the Church and Catholic Moral Theology.

If we start mixing in the question of culpability - which is not what the OP asked - then that changes the question.

In this case, the Church considers all sins involving the misuse of the sexual act as being sins of grave matter. Depending upon the culpability of the person involved, however, the Church maintains that certain considerations of psychology or physiology can either diminish or reduce the the gravity of the act for the individual. In that case, then, masturbation was not a “mortal” sin. The blanket statement doesn’t work. In any event, it has aways been the Church’s position that it is unrepentant mortal sin that puts one’s soul at risk.

A single mortal sin that is *committed *(meaning here with full knowledge and deliberate consent)- already puts his soul at risk until it has been repented with the grace of perfect contrition (intending to confess ASAP) or been confessed and absolved.

That again is getting into not the question the OP asked. He asked about the sin itself. And it is a mortal sin.

As to culpability - the “committing” of mortal sin - yes more is involved then the nature of the sin itself.

Again there is a difference between the nature of the sin itself and the very different question of the culpability of the person involved.

Masturbation is itself a mortal sin. As is adultery etc.

A person who willfully commits murder and adultery has more to worry about than whether what they did was “mortal” or not; their actions are outward signs of their rejection of God which is not something most people who fall into masturbation intend.

As to the first part - yes that has to do with a “committed” mortals sin.

As to the second part - that is not entirely correct. One does not need to intend their actions to be signs of rejection of God in order to commit a mortal sin. Mortal sin is committed when for whatever reason a person chooses the grave matter with full knowledge and deliberate consent. They do not have to intend in any way to reject God (see Veritatis Splendor by Pope St. John Paul II).

 

[Bookcat]

Sentence fragments do not make for a convincing argument, either.

It is the way I often post. Everyone has his style. Like it or not.

 

[Bookcat]

Will Catholics ever get over this desire to parse all sins into being either “venial” or “mortal?”

Huh?

It is simply the truth and a very important truth.

It is quote important to know what is mortal sin and what is venial sin.

All sin is sin, though in differing degrees.

No actually not. Difference in kind. In reality.

There is an abyss that separates mortal sin and venial sin.

Like saying death from cancer is the same as a cut on the finger or a bad cold.

What you have listed above are sins of grave matter but the blanket term of “mortal” neither makes sense nor helps to understand the subject.

Yes grave matter.

And yes objectively mortal sin.

As I noted above the OP was not asking about culpability but about the nature of the sin.

And that is its nature.

And the other examples too.

This is the teaching of the Church and Catholic Moral Theology.

If we start mixing in the question of culpability - which is not what the OP asked - then that changes the question.

In this case, the Church considers all sins involving the misuse of the sexual act as being sins of grave matter. Depending upon the culpability of the person involved, however, the Church maintains that certain considerations of psychology or physiology can either diminish or reduce the the gravity of the act for the individual. In that case, then, masturbation was not a “mortal” sin. The blanket statement doesn’t work. In any event, it has aways been the Church’s position that it is unrepentant mortal sin that puts one’s soul at risk.

A single mortal sin that is *committed *(meaning here with full knowledge and deliberate consent)- already puts his soul at risk until it has been repented with the grace of perfect contrition (intending to confess ASAP) or been confessed and absolved.

That again is getting into not the question the OP asked. He asked about the sin itself. And it is a mortal sin.

As to culpability - the “committing” of mortal sin - yes more is involved then the nature of the sin itself.

Again there is a difference between the nature of the sin itself and the very different question of the culpability of the person involved.

Masturbation is itself a mortal sin. As is adultery etc.

A person who willfully commits murder and adultery has more to worry about than whether what they did was “mortal” or not; their actions are outward signs of their rejection of God which is not something most people who fall into masturbation intend.

As to the first part - yes that has to do with a “committed” mortals sin.

As to the second part - that is not entirely correct. One does not need to intend their actions to be signs of rejection of God in order to commit a mortal sin. Mortal sin is committed when for whatever reason a person chooses the grave matter with full knowledge and deliberate consent. They do not have to intend in any way to reject God (see* Veritatis Splendor* by Pope St. John Paul II).

 

[Bookcat]

YOUCAT 409: Is masturbation an offense against love?

Masturbation is an offense against love, because it makes the excitement of sexual pleasure an end in itself and uncouples it from the holistic unfolding of love between a man and a woman. That is why “sex with yourself” is a contradiction in terms. [2352]

Yes and it will reference the Catechism of the Catholic Church which gives a fuller presentation. As I noted it would not be contrary to such.

 

[truetofaith]

Just because something is a grave matter doesn’t make it a mortal sin. That’s only 1/3 of it.

There are some instances where the culpability for masturbation is reduced to non-mortal levels because of a lack of deliberate consent or full knowledge.

It appears you are saying once it becomes a habit it is no longer a mortal sin because there’s “a lack of deliberate consent or full knowledge.”

Then the first time someone robs a bank it’s a mortal sin but once they get into a string of bank robberies they no longer think about what they are doing wrong…so it’s no longer a mortal sin?

 

[Rau]

It appears you are saying once it becomes a habit it is no longer a mortal sin because there’s “a lack of deliberate consent or full knowledge.”

Then the first time someone robs a bank it’s a mortal sin but once they get into a string of bank robberies they no longer think about what they are doing wrong…so it’s no longer a mortal sin?

Addiction to bank robbery is certainly unusual. Addiction to excessive drinking, not so much. You think teens don’t fall into a hard to break habit? You were quoted a section of the catechism earlier that remarked on the consequences of force of habit. Do you reject this section?

Culpability is not diminished in the 50th transgression of a sin - just because it is the 50th - but in circumstances where the repetitions are harder to say no to by virtue of a hard to break habit.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It appears you are saying once it becomes a habit it is no longer a mortal sin because there’s “a lack of deliberate consent or full knowledge.”

Then the first time someone robs a bank it’s a mortal sin but once they get into a string of bank robberies they no longer think about what they are doing wrong…so it’s no longer a mortal sin?

Masturbate once, go to hell. Mastubate 100 times a month? Recoeve communion and go to heaven… sounds weird when you put it that way…

It also sounds like the old 99 percent do it and 1 percent lies about it line…

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Perhaps as many times until you get the correct answer.

It is grave matter. It can be a sin. Mortal? Only God can judge that.

I would prefer to err on the side of caution and presume that it is indeed mortal. Or at least that God is going to see it that way.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

I’m not condemning anyone…I just can’t believe people are trying to change a clearly mortal sin into an option.

I see so many people here who ask about masturbation and it seems like they want to be able to do it yet avoid the sin on some sort of technicality. (It’s a habit; I have psychological issues; etc.)

 

[h77750920]

Even if it was to just expel old sperm to make way for healthier sperm?

 

[Bookcat]

Even if it was to just expel old sperm to make way for healthier sperm?

Yes.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Even if it was to just expel old sperm to make way for healthier sperm?

That’s not how biology works!

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Objectively, yes, but that implies that the person who commits such a sin 1) knows that it’s serious sin, 2) have full knowledge of what it is they are doing and 3) deliberately choose to do it anyway. So, that right there already lets the air out of the “objectively sinful” balloon. The fact that the Church allows for psychological, physiological, force of acquired habit, etc. as legitimate reasons to mitigate the seriousness of the act tends to lesson the blanket declaration of being “mortal.”

Yes. It is grave matter, and not a mortal sin unless the other two components of mortal sin are present (knowledge and consent).

 

[Bookcat]

not a mortal sin unless the other two components of mortal sin are present (knowledge and consent).

If one is referring to the question of the *committing *of a mortal sin. To culpability.

As to the nature of masturbation (removed from the question of culpability) - yes that it is a mortal sin.

Objective nature and Subjective culpability.

Two different questions.

The original’ question was about the first - the nature of the act.

Masturbation, murder, adultery, fornication etc are examples of mortal sins.

 

[davidv]

If one is referring to the question of the *committing *of a mortal sin. To culpability.

As to the nature of masturbation (removed from the question of culpability) - yes that it is a mortal sin.

Objective nature and Subjective culpability.

Two different questions.

The original’ question was about the first - the nature of the act.

Masturbation, murder, adultery, fornication etc are examples of mortal sins.

Given that the usual connotation of mortal in the context of sin is that it applies to the impact on the person, it seems imprudent to me to use grave and mortal as synonyms in discussions such as this one. At minimum, doing so causes confusion.

 

[Bookcat]

Given that the usual connotation of mortal in the context of sin is that it applies to the impact on the person, it seems imprudent to me to use grave and mortal as synonyms in discussions such as this one. At minimum, doing so causes confusion.

Grave sin and Mortal sin ARE synonyms.

(see the term: “mortal sin” in the Catholic Dictionary -where it is noted that they are synonyms - and of course one can see the varies use in Church documents as well).

The Catholic Church uses them as such - as well as “serious sin” (all three terms are synonyms for the same sin).

And as to the actual question of the thread - there should be no confusion for I have explained clearly that there is the question of the sin itself (objective nature of it -which is what he asked about) and there is also then the question of culpability - as to when one “commits” a mortals in - is guilty of such seriously - and that too was explained (one needs also full knowledge and complete consent not only the act itself).

The original person was not asking about culpability but about the nature of the sin itself.

Hence the answer I gave. Though I then followed up too with the question of culpability - which was not asked.

If someone asks - how bad a sin is murder?

One can simply say “oh murder - that is a mortal sin”.

Then can discuss the question of culpability …which is a different question.

 

[truetofaith]

Masturbate once, go to hell. Mastubate 100 times a month? Recoeve communion and go to heaven… sounds weird when you put it that way…

It also sounds like the old 99 percent do it and 1 percent lies about it line…

Yeah, but I’m not saying it…only sarcastically repeating what is being said by the others.

 

[truetofaith]

Addiction to bank robbery is certainly unusual. Addiction to excessive drinking, not so much. You think teens don’t fall into a hard to break habit? You were quoted a section of the catechism earlier that remarked on the consequences of force of habit. Do you reject this section?

Culpability is not diminished in the 50th transgression of a sin - just because it is the 50th - but in circumstances where the repetitions are harder to say no to by virtue of a hard to break habit.

Jesse James would probably disagree with you.

Once you commit a mortal sin it doesn’t become less sinful when you are addicted . You still have the knowledge & consent…although it doesn’t take as long to consent.