Is masturbation a sin?

[Bookcat]

Meaningless.

It is not meaningless. But answered the question asked.

He was not asking about culpability but about the sin itself - by itself. *Objectively. *

It is a mortal sin. That is its nature.

Murder is a mortal sin.
Masturbation is a mortal sin.
Adultery* is* a mortal sin.
Fornication is a mortal sin.

They are all mortal sins (also the terms grave sin, serious sin, grevious sin, deadly sin can all be used for the sins “in themselves”).

If someone asks - is adultery a mortal sin - one can answer simply - Yes it is.

---

Your getting into a different question. That of culpability.

That of if Sam asks - “have I “*commited *a mortal sin” when I did such and such…”

Then one gets into if there was the needed knowledge and consent…

That is a very different question.

 

[Tim_D]

He was not asking about culpability but about the sin itself - by itself. *Objectively. *

If a person asks if speeding is illegal and punishable by a fine, it is usually because they have committed that particular violation of the law and wish to know what the possible consequences could be.

If a person asks if something is a mortal sin, it is usually because they have committed that particular sin and are trying to evaluate their situation.

The blanket objective statement that something is a “mortal sin” does very little to expound upon a person’s degree of culpability. And, ultimately, that is what many people are concerned about the most.

 

[Rau]

If a person asks if speeding is illegal and punishable by a fine, it is usually because they have committed that particular violation of the law and wish to know what the possible consequences could be.

If a person asks if something is a mortal sin, it is usually because they have committed that particular sin and are trying to evaluate their situation.

The blanket objective statement that something is a “mortal sin” does very little to expound upon a person’s degree of culpability. And, ultimately, that is what many people are concerned about the most.

The question has been asked and answered clearly and answers given to a couple of variations of interpretations of the question. It’s hard to see a need for more debate here.

 

[Bookcat]

If a person asks if speeding is illegal and punishable by a fine, it is usually because they have committed that particular violation of the law and wish to know what the possible consequences could be.

If a person asks if something is a mortal sin, it is usually because they have committed that particular sin and are trying to evaluate their situation.

The blanket objective statement that something is a “mortal sin” does very little to expound upon a person’s degree of culpability. And, ultimately, that is what many people are concerned about the most.

What did I answer the person?

I gave* both *aspects. The nature of the sin itself (it is a mortal sin) and also about culpability - even though he did not ask about that.

Lets look at my very first post to the OP on this thread.

Yes.

As to seriousness yes it is serious - it is a mortal sin.

(it is grave matter for mortal sin).

See Catechism in mortal and venial sin scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#IV

See The Catechism section 2352 on your question.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#II

(ones confessor can help judge culpability and going struggles and can help advise one in overcoming such–see the section there in the Catechism and ones Confessor.)

In any case if one should fall - repent and get to confession and know that Jesus loves you and desires to forgive you forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14493955&postcount=9

It is post #3 forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14526885&postcount=3

 

[Bookcat]

If.

Is it correct to say that sin Y is a mortal sin?

Yes.

That is discussing the sin itself. That is fine and the way it is done.

Then one can get into the culpability - the question is someone serious guilty of committing a mortal sin when they did Y.

This too is how a Priest from Catholic Answers Staff answered a question:

Is It a Mortal Sin to Receive Communion on the Hand?

Fr. Charles Grondin

January 29, 2017

Full Question

Is it a mortal sin to receive Communion on the hand?

Answer

No, it is not a mortal sin to receive communion in the hand. The Church officially permits this practice and the Church would not allow it if it was a mortal sin.

catholic.com/qa/is-it-a-mortal-sin-to-receive-communion-on-the-hand

 

[Bookcat]

If.

And to add even a better witness to this usage:

When discussing the sin itself. That is fine and the way it is done.

Then one can get into the culpability - the question is someone serious guilty of committing a mortal sin when they did Y. (which I then did in my first post and others–pointing the person to the section in the Catechism and to their confessor …but then again the person did not say were asking the question about themselves - they asked the question in general…is it a sin and if so how serious is it.).

For example:

Is torture a mortal sin?

Yes.

It is complete correct to answer that way. Indeed that is how the Pope stated it.

“Torturing people is a mortal sin!”

~ Pope Francis (Angelus - June 2014)

“And to Catholics, I say: to torture a person is a mortal sin…”

~ Pope Francis (in an inflight interview)

Or again he in discussing the sins of the media he said the same about other sins:

“In my view, the sins of the media, the gravest, are those that go along the road of lies and falsehood, and there are three: misinformation, calumny and defamation. The last two are very grave! but not as dangerous as the first. Why? I will explain. Calumny is a mortal sin, but one may clarify and come to know that it is calumny. Defamation is a mortal sin, but one can arrive at saying: this is an injustice, because this person did that a long time ago, but he repented, he changed his life. But misinformation is telling only half of the story, the half that is more convenient for me, and not telling the other half. And so the person who is watching TV or listening to the radio cannot judge correctly, because he doesn’t have all of the facts and they aren’t given to him. Please flee from these three sins. Misinformation, calumny and defamation.”

~ Pope Francis (Clementine Hall 22 March 2014)

(vatican.va/)

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If a person asks if speeding is illegal and punishable by a fine, it is usually because they have committed that particular violation of the law and wish to know what the possible consequences could be.

If a person asks if something is a mortal sin, it is usually because they have committed that particular sin and are trying to evaluate their situation.

The blanket objective statement that something is a “mortal sin” does very little to expound upon a person’s degree of culpability. And, ultimately, that is what many people are concerned about the most.

No. People ask what the speed limit is and what the fine is because they wish to obey the law and make an informed decision on keeping it or breaking it.

One wonders what your purpose of argument here is.

 

[Tim_D]

One wonders what your purpose of argument here is.

Oh, I don’t know…perhaps because I don’t wish to see young (and maybe not so young) men eat themselves up with anxiety over the thought that because they did something that damn near every other male in the world has done, that they are going straight to hell because it is a “mortal sin.” Or that they may even abandon the faith and the Church because they think that they are somehow less worthy than any others because they did a certain “deed” which is, as we have been reminded over and over, is a “mortal” sin, a sin for which they will go to hell if they don’t make it to confession before they die.

True story; I went to confession one day with the priest here who was facing going to jail over not revealing the details of a confession (and who was lauded as a hero on CAF). I asked him straight up, is self abuse a mortal sin? His reply, “is it a serious sin? Yes. Will you go to hell if you do it? No.” It just made sense. It was a far, far better answer than Bookcats incessant mantra of “mortal, mortal, mortal.” I think it sad that some people may have gotten themselves into a position of exaggerated fear of God instead of knowing Him and loving Him as He wants. Pope Benedict said that the parable of the Prodigal Son could just as easily have been titled The Good Father. I think he has a good point.

 

[truetofaith]

Oh, I don’t know…perhaps because I don’t wish to see young (and maybe not so young) men eat themselves up with anxiety over the thought that because they did something that damn near every other male in the world has done, that they are going straight to hell because it is a “mortal sin.” Or that they may even abandon the faith and the Church because they think that they are somehow less worthy than any others because they did a certain “deed” which is, as we have been reminded over and over, is a “mortal” sin, a sin for which they will go to hell if they don’t make it to confession before they die.

True story; I went to confession one day with the priest here who was facing going to jail over not revealing the details of a confession (and who was lauded as a hero on CAF). I asked him straight up, is self abuse a mortal sin? His reply, “is it a serious sin? Yes. Will you go to hell if you do it? No.” It just made sense. It was a far, far better answer than Bookcats incessant mantra of “mortal, mortal, mortal.” I think it sad that some people may have gotten themselves into a position of exaggerated fear of God instead of knowing Him and loving Him as He wants. Pope Benedict said that the parable of the Prodigal Son could just as easily have been titled The Good Father. I think he has a good point.

Ask the priest if stealing an I-pod is a mortal sin. I guess he would say yes…but you won’t go to hell if you do it.
A lot of folks could use an I-pod with no cash or sin involved.

 

[Tim_D]

Ask the priest if stealing an I-pod is a mortal sin. I guess he would say yes…but you won’t go to hell if you do it.
A lot of folks could use an I-pod with no cash or sin involved.

What a silly example.

There is a gulf of difference between stealing an i-pod and acting on physiological and psychological impulses, driven by hormones, testosterone, immaturity, stress and natural curiosity.

 

[davidv]

What a silly example.

There is a gulf of difference between stealing an i-pod and acting on physiological and psychological impulses, driven by hormones, testosterone, immaturity, stress and natural curiosity.

Not as big a gulf as you think. All sin is rooted in a disordered desire. It does not matter if the desire is sexual or not.

 

[truetofaith]

What a silly example.

There is a gulf of difference between stealing an i-pod and acting on physiological and psychological impulses, driven by hormones, testosterone, immaturity, stress and natural curiosity.

My example is not that silly…sarcastic, maybe…Hey even murder can be accepted because it was driven by stress or psychological impulses!

Let’s do away with the 10 Commandments.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Oh, I don’t know…perhaps because I don’t wish to see young (and maybe not so young) men eat themselves up with anxiety over the thought that because they did something that damn near every other male in the world has done, that they are going straight to hell because it is a “mortal sin.” Or that they may even abandon the faith and the Church because they think that they are somehow less worthy than any others because they did a certain “deed” which is, as we have been reminded over and over, is a “mortal” sin, a sin for which they will go to hell if they don’t make it to confession before they die.

True story; I went to confession one day with the priest here who was facing going to jail over not revealing the details of a confession (and who was lauded as a hero on CAF). I asked him straight up, is self abuse a mortal sin? His reply, “is it a serious sin? Yes. Will you go to hell if you do it? No.” It just made sense. It was a far, far better answer than Bookcats incessant mantra of “mortal, mortal, mortal.” I think it sad that some people may have gotten themselves into a position of exaggerated fear of God instead of knowing Him and loving Him as He wants. Pope Benedict said that the parable of the Prodigal Son could just as easily have been titled The Good Father. I think he has a good point.

That’s an example of loving others to hell. And misplaced compassion.
The Church is clear. You just disagree with Her.

 

[Bookcat]

Oh, I don’t know…perhaps because I don’t wish to see young (and maybe not so young) men eat themselves up with anxiety over the thought that because they did something that damn near every other male in the world has done, that they are going straight to hell because it is a “mortal sin.”

Who says they are going straight to hell? Are they dead yet?

No one said that.

Yes if they do commit a mortal sin (again there can be aspects that can reduce culpability where no mortal sin was committed in a particular case))- is that a danger if they do not repent and turn from their choice to the mercy and love of God - yes. That is the reality of mortal sin. Our Lady was very sad at Fatima about so many making the choice of hell. It is a very real reality. Part of her reason to show the Children this vision of hell was to ask for prayer and penance for those in mortal sin.

So yes that is a very real reality.

Also a very real reality- and even more so - is the love and mercy of God! Jesus desires to forgive them - to return them to true life.

As Pope Frances noted:

"Let me say this once more: God never tires of forgiving us; we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy.

Christ, who told us to forgive one another “seventy times seven” (Mt 18:22) has given us his example: he has forgiven us seventy times seven. Time and time again he bears us on his shoulders.

No one can strip us of the dignity bestowed upon us by this boundless and unfailing love. With a tenderness which never disappoints, but is always capable of restoring our joy, he makes it possible for us to lift up our heads and to start anew. Let us not flee from the resurrection of Jesus, let us never give up, come what will. May nothing inspire more than his life, which impels us onwards!" w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html#I.%E2%80%82A_joy_ever_new,_a_joy_which_is_shared

Or that they may even abandon the faith and the Church because they think that they are somehow less worthy than any others because they did a certain “deed” which is, as we have been reminded over and over, is a “mortal” sin, a sin for which they will go to hell if they don’t make it to confession before they die.

The Church not only teaches that it is a mortal sin - but that Jesus is waiting for them with great love and mercy - wanting to give them true life. Giving them grace to turn back to God and away from their sin. This is part of the reality of the Gospel! Of the good news! Life!

What they need to hear is the Gospel and yes the reality of sin - and the greater reality of mercy and true life in Christ.

True story; I went to confession one day with the priest here who was facing going to jail over not revealing the details of a confession (and who was lauded as a hero on CAF). I asked him straight up, is self abuse a mortal sin? His reply, “is it a serious sin? Yes. Will you go to hell if you do it? No.” It just made sense. It was a far, far better answer than Bookcats incessant mantra of “mortal, mortal, mortal.”

I do not give an “incessant matra of mortal mortal mortal” - that would be a mischaracterization. The only reason I have to repeat was out of necessity to continue to explain the teaching of the Church. Please read again even my first answer - it pointed to both realities - the objective and the subjective. Perhaps your reading too fast and thinking I am saying something I am not. I even gave you examples of the Priest at Catholic Answers and the Pope speaking the same way when discussing the nature of the sin itself. I have done nothing out of usual - only had to to continue to argue my point (the Church’s point).

As to the words of the Priest in the past- we can assume he meant was while it was a mortal sin - you were there repenting - going to confession - being restored to life! So no your not going to hell. That the mercy of God is here to restore you. To give you true life again.

 

[Bookcat]

I think it sad that some people may have gotten themselves into a position of exaggerated fear of God instead of knowing Him and loving Him as He wants. Pope Benedict said that the parable of the Prodigal Son could just as easily have been titled The Good Father. I think he has a good point.

Yes indeed brother.

And as let us together love one another, forgive anything needful and all praise the mercy of God.

And further more from him and Pope Francis - here is a post I have posted repeatedly in these forums -but it does well to post it yet again.

---

Let us remember Jesus of Nazareth is The Lamb and the Good Shepherd …

"Jesus is called the Lamb: He is the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. Someone might think: but how can a lamb, which is so weak, a weak little lamb, how can it take away so many sins, so much wickedness? With Love. With his meekness. Jesus never ceased being a lamb: meek, good, full of love, close to the little ones, close to the poor. He was there, among the people, healing everyone, teaching, praying. Jesus, so weak, like a lamb. However, he had the strength to take all our sins upon himself, all of them.

“But, Father, you don’t know my life: I have a sin that…, I can’t even carry it with a truck…”.

Many times, when we examine our conscience, we find some there that are truly bad! But he carries them. He came for this: to forgive, to make peace in the world, but first in the heart. Perhaps each one of us feels troubled in his heart, perhaps he experiences darkness in his heart, perhaps he feels a little sad over a fault… He has come to take away all of this, He gives us peace, he forgives everything. “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away sin”: he takes away sin, it’s root and all! This is salvation Jesus brings about by his love and his meekness. And in listening to what John the Baptist says, who bears witness to Jesus as the Saviour, our confidence in Jesus should grow. Many times we trust a doctor: it is good, because the doctor is there to cure us; we trust in a person: brothers and sisters can help us. It is good to have this human trust among ourselves. But we forget about trust in the Lord: this is the key to success in life. Trust in the Lord, let us trust in the Lord! “Lord, look at my life: I’m in the dark, I have this struggle, I have this sin…”; everything we have: “Look at this: I trust in you!”. And this is a risk we must take: to trust in Him, and He never disappoints."

~Pope Francis

vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/homilies/2014/documents/papa-francesco_20140119_omelia-parrocchia-sacro-cuore-gesu_en.html

"Jesus is the “Good Shepherd” who goes in search of lost sheep, who knows his sheep and lays down his life for them (cf. Mt 18:12-14; Lk 15:4-7; Jn 10:2-4, 11-18). He is the way, the right path that leads us to life (cf. Jn 14:6), the light that illuminates the dark valley and overcomes all our fears (cf. Jn 1:9; 8:12; 9:5; 12:46).

He is the generous host who welcomes us and rescues us from our enemies, preparing for us the table of his body and his blood (cf. Mt 26:26-29; Mk 14:22-25); Lk 22:19-20) and the definitive table of the messianic banquet in Heaven (cf. Lk 14:15ff; Rev 3:20; 19:9). He is the Royal Shepherd, king in docility and in forgiveness, enthroned on the glorious wood of the cross (cf. Jn 3:13-15; 12:32; 17:4-5)."

~Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2011/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20111005_en.html

"I invite all Christians, everywhere, at this very moment, to a renewed personal encounter with Jesus Christ, or at least an openness to letting him encounter them; I ask all of you to do this unfailingly each day. No one should think that this invitation is not meant for him or her, since “no one is excluded from the joy brought by the Lord”.[1] The Lord does not disappoint those who take this risk; whenever we take a step towards Jesus, we come to realize that he is already there, waiting for us with open arms.

Now is the time to say to Jesus: “Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love, yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you. I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”. How good it feels to come back to him whenever we are lost!

Let me say this once more: God never tires of forgiving us; we are the ones who tire of seeking his mercy.

Christ, who told us to forgive one another “seventy times seven” (Mt 18:22) has given us his example: he has forgiven us seventy times seven. Time and time again he bears us on his shoulders.

No one can strip us of the dignity bestowed upon us by this boundless and unfailing love. With a tenderness which never disappoints, but is always capable of restoring our joy, he makes it possible for us to lift up our heads and to start anew. Let us not flee from the resurrection of Jesus, let us never give up, come what will. May nothing inspire more than his life, which impels us onwards!"

~ Pope Francis

APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
EVANGELII GAUDIUM

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html#I.%E2%80%82A_joy_ever_new,_a_joy_which_is_shared

 

[Tim_D]

That’s an example of loving others to hell. And misplaced compassion.
The Church is clear. You just disagree with Her.

So, what do you say when a friend has a relative who has committed suicide? Suicide is a mortal sin. Do you tell him what the Church teaches, that only God can know the motivation of someone who takes his own life so we leave it up to Him or do you tell him that suicide is a mortal sin and that punishment for mortal sin is hell? Do you *love him to hell *or offer misplaced compassion? After all, the Church is clear but she does say more than what you will allow.

Actually, the catechism is very clear in the entry about masturbation; YOU are the one who disagrees.

 

[truetofaith]

So, what do you say when a friend has a relative who has committed suicide? Suicide is a mortal sin. Do you tell him what the Church teaches, that only God can know the motivation of someone who takes his own life so we leave it up to Him or do you tell him that suicide is a mortal sin and that punishment for mortal sin is hell? Do you *love him to hell *or offer misplaced compassion? After all, the Church is clear but she does say more than what you will allow.

Actually, the catechism is very clear in the entry about masturbation; YOU are the one who disagrees.

Suicide is different. There is no chance of confessing the sin…so it must be left to God for the person’s motivation.

 

[Tim_D]

Suicide is different. There is no chance of confessing the sin…so it must be left to God for the person’s motivation.

Masturbation is a mortal sin. Suicide is a mortal sin. Objectively, there is no difference. And yet, you are now allowing for a person’s motivation? How does that square with this:

…when a person keeps committing the same sin that was said to be mortal…he knows it is still mortal 50 times later and has already consented without thinking about it.

 

[truetofaith]

Masturbation is a mortal sin. Suicide is a mortal sin. Objectively, there is no difference. And yet, you are now allowing for a person’s motivation? How does that square with this:

It’s obvious, unless the person kept trying to commit suicide.

 

[BornInMarch]

It’s a grave matter. That means that if it is done with full knowledge and deliberate consent then it is a mortal sin.

If the knowledge or deliberate consent is missing than the culpability is reduced.

Anybody who says “It’s a mortal sin, end of discussion” is making the mistake of assuming that full knowledge and deliberate consent go without saying.