Is masturbation without lust a sin?

[Timi_Celcer]

I wonder, since i do not masturbate, why would masturbation without lust be so bad. I do not masturbate so every two months or so i have wet dreams followed by ejaculation. It seems like God planned for me to ejaculate every months or so. But since lusting is obviously a sin, don’t you think that it is better to mastrurbate without lust every 3 weeks than have lustfull wet dreams and a lust problems day before wet dreams?

 

[Bookcat]

Yes it is intrinsically gravely disordered. Such would be grave matter for mortal sin. It cannot be done.

 

[bben15]

The Catechism does not mention a distinction between masturbation with or without lust. Masturbation, period, is a mortal sin.

Don’t ever masturbate. It is very addicting. I am still struggling with it. Again, don’t ever masturbate.

 

[Bookcat]

Important to note that such dreams are not sins. For one is asleep and do not consent to them - do not want them. They happen involuntarily.

If one wakes during such an event -simply turn your attention as you wake to some other thing.

Unwanted Temptations to lust-- are temptations. Now of course one may need to avoid certain things -but as to temptations per se -they are temptations not sins.

Seeking lustful things…consenting to lustful desires…seeking to have lustful dreams…lustful thoughts …consenting to lust …that is gravely sinful.

But an out of the blue temptation that one sets aside is not a sin. One simply turns to something else that is good and ignores it.

 

[Amandil]

I wonder, since i do not masturbate, why would masturbation without lust be so bad. I do not masturbate so every two months or so i have wet dreams followed by ejaculation. It seems like God planned for me to ejaculate every months or so. But since lusting is obviously a sin, don’t you think that it is better to mastrurbate without lust every 3 weeks than have lustfull wet dreams and a lust problems day before wet dreams?

Without lust you would have no intrinsic desire to masterbate.

There is an obvious and essential link between any disordered sexual act and the sin of lust. The devils want you, or any of us, to rationalize away the sinfulness of any disordered pleasure and at the same time make sure that the pleasures which we seek are least natural, least redolent of our Maker, and least pleasurable.

I would suggest that whatever these dreams are that maybe you should lay them at the feet of Christ in prayer rather then indulge in something that your know is sinful.

 

[Mary_Ellen]

I wonder, since i do not masturbate, why would masturbation without lust be so bad. I do not masturbate so every two months or so i have wet dreams followed by ejaculation. It seems like God planned for me to ejaculate every months or so. But since lusting is obviously a sin, don’t you think that it is better to mastrurbate without lust every 3 weeks than have lustfull wet dreams and a lust problems day before wet dreams?

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

Without lust you would have no intrinsic desire to masterbate.

There is an obvious and essential link between any disordered sexual act and the sin of lust. The devils want you, or any of us, to rationalize away the sinfulness of any disordered pleasure and at the same time make sure that the pleasures which we seek are least natural, least redolent of our Maker, and least pleasurable.

I would suggest that whatever these dreams are that maybe you should lay them at the feet of Christ in prayer rather then indulge in something that your know is sinful.

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

 

[KrazyKat]

God made our body and all it’s functions. We have no control over what is referred to as “wet dreams”, this is a natural function created by God and is not sin.

Masturbation is sin.

 

[matt1917]

Thank you for the responses on this thread. I feel extremely guilty because I sometimes feel that it is healthy to relieve myself in that mortally sinful way rather than burn with passion which sometimes drives me insane.

Thank you for reminding me how sinful and disordered it is and to not take it lightly. It would be sad for a few minutes of pleasure to lead to eternal torture (damnation.)

Im hoping and praying that God finds me in a state of grace and then takes my life so that I dont die with mortal sin on my soul.

Every time I leave the confession booth I pray that God would take my life. I would rather die after being cleansed than to live with a filthy troubled soul that is constantly tempted to mortal sin.

 

[ClearWater]

Thank you for the responses on this thread. I feel extremely guilty because I sometimes feel that it is healthy to relieve myself in that mortally sinful way rather than burn with passion which sometimes drives me insane.

Thank you for reminding me how sinful and disordered it is and to not take it lightly. It would be sad for a few minutes of pleasure to lead to eternal torture (damnation.)

Im hoping and praying that God finds me in a state of grace and then takes my life so that I dont die with mortal sin on my soul.

Every time I leave the confession booth I pray that God would take my life. I would rather die after being cleansed than to live with a filthy troubled soul that is constantly tempted to mortal sin.

Oh, take it easy. Although it’s a sin, you are trying. Be patient with yourself, please.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The only cure for masturbation and porn.

THE DISCIPLE. Lord, one who desires perfection must make it his first task to keep his mind at all times set on heavenly things. By so doing, he can pass carefree through many troubles, not as one who has not the wit to realize the dangers that beset him, but in the strength of a free mind, unfettered by undue attachment to worldly things.
-The Imitation of Christ, Book 3, Chapter 26

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Oh, take it easy. Although it’s a sin, you are trying. Be patient with yourself, please.

I agree. This is a common struggle, especially for adolescent males. We make far too much of it and that just makes it all worse. The blessing of it is that it can bring humility. We realize just how weak and sinful we really are. Pretty difficult to have pride in the midst of failures.

 

[Amandil]

Thank you for the responses on this thread. I feel extremely guilty because I sometimes feel that it is healthy to relieve myself in that mortally sinful way rather than burn with passion which sometimes drives me insane.

Thank you for reminding me how sinful and disordered it is and to not take it lightly. It would be sad for a few minutes of pleasure to lead to eternal torture (damnation.)

Im hoping and praying that God finds me in a state of grace and then takes my life so that I dont die with mortal sin on my soul.

Every time I leave the confession booth I pray that God would take my life. I would rather die after being cleansed than to live with a filthy troubled soul that is constantly tempted to mortal sin.

I agree with Clearwater.

Beating yourself up over sin that you have been absolved of is almost as bad as committing the sin, your still falling into the trap of the devils by focusing on yourself and your own sinfulness, even after confession!?

Stop it! I’m serious, brother.

Realize this: You cannot do anything, anything, to make God love you any less than He loves you right now, or at that moment when you sin, or when you come out of confession. You are, in fact we all are, drenched in God’s love at every moment of every day. Its only because of our weakened natures that we forget or ignore this fact.

You’re not alone; we’re all tempted to sin. The thing with masturbation, or any disordered pleasure, is that it is subject to the law of diminishing returns; it forces you to crave it more while at the same time the more you do it the less pleasure you get from it.

When I’m confronted with it I pray. If nothing else I pray the Our Father, slowly, with a big emphasis on “give us this day our daily bread”. I finish by asking God to give me the daily and hourly grace and the strength to resist this temptation.

When I remember, and I pray this prayer, God’s answer is almost immediate.

I hope this helps.

 

[matt1917]

I agree with Clearwater.

Beating yourself up over sin that you have been absolved of is almost as bad as committing the sin, your still falling into the trap of the devils by focusing on yourself and your own sinfulness, even after confession!?

Stop it! I’m serious, brother.

Realize this: You cannot do anything, anything

, to make God love you any less than He loves you right now, or at that moment when you sin, or when you come out of confession. You are, in fact we all are, drenched in God’s love at every moment of every day. Its only because of our weakened natures that we forget or ignore this fact.

You’re not alone; we’re all tempted to sin. The thing with masturbation, or any disordered pleasure, is that it is subject to the law of diminishing returns; it forces you to crave it more while at the same time the more you do it the less pleasure you get from it.

When I’m confronted with it I pray. If nothing else I pray the Our Father, slowly, with a big emphasis on “give us this day our daily bread”. I finish by asking God to give me the daily and hourly grace and the strength to resist this temptation.

When I remember, and I pray this prayer, God’s answer is almost immediate.

I hope this helps.

Well you are all better and stronger in your faith than me. I would rather not exist than to live as a disgusting pervert. I feel much guilt when im around attractive women and the filthy thoughts enter my head.

I was addicted to porn before I went through puberty (nine years old). Fortunately, Porn is not an issue anymore. It probably would be if I had a computer with internet access (im at the Library).

However, when your mind is pornographic, it’s just as wicked as looking at the images.

Ted Bundy is an example of what pornography can do to a person. Almost every mass murderer that has been interviewed including guards at death camps like auschwitz were perverts or started out with pornography.

 

[Catolico65]

Well you are all better and stronger in your faith than me. I would rather not exist than to live as a disgusting pervert. I feel much guilt when im around attractive women and the filthy thoughts enter my head.

With all due respect God has made us male and female, and as such each is generally innately interested in the opposite sex, therefore you aren’t a “pervert” by any means if you are interested in attractive women. I’m not condoning going to far but there is no wrong in having an innate interest. In fact if men didn’t have this there would be no one around.

I just like you have had problems containing my thoughts regarding what I perceived to be inappropriate thoughts of women, to the point of never wishing to have been born as well. I still struggle with this as you do, although less than before since I have been married. Nonetheless, I turned out to be a very loving father whom my daughters love very much, and I expect you would be as equally a good father and husband so maybe it is something we have inside that needs to be channeled correctly. God bless.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

I find it funny that people keep posting these masturbation questions as if they are looking for some loophole or technicality that would allow them to do it without committing a sin.

 

[Amandil]

Well you are all better and stronger in your faith than me.

No, I am not. It has been a great struggle, and it is something that I still struggle with daily.

I would rather not exist than to live as a disgusting pervert. I feel much guilt when im around attractive women and the filthy thoughts enter my head.

Brother, that just means that you’re human. You possess an appreciation for the beauty of women and in that an appreciation for the beauty of God’s creation.

There is a common story of a Pope(I can’t recall which one) walking with several cardinals through Rome, and they as a group come upon a courtesan. Immediately the other cardinals divert their eyes away from her, while the Pope looks at her intently. The Pope then rebukes the cardinals in their shame, “Why do you look away, brothers? She is a child of God, made in His image and likeness. Appreciate His image in her, do not shun her!”

That Pope’s recognition of her true inner beauty caused her to become a nun.

The point of the story is that all women have that image of the infinite beauty of God in them. Try to make a practice of glorifying God in their beauty.

It won’t come immediately, but if you make a practice of it, along with prayer, you may find yourself not looking at them not as an object but as another person full of her own infinite dignity and worth.

I was addicted to porn before I went through puberty (nine years old). Fortunately, Porn is not an issue anymore. It probably would be if I had a computer with internet access (im at the Library).

However, when your mind is pornographic, it’s just as wicked as looking at the images.

I saw my first porn mag when I was ten.

And St. Francis of Assisi was constantly hounded and haunted by pornographic images. In one instance he was under such an assault that to free himself of the thoughts he threw himself into a thorn bush.

Ted Bundy is an example of what pornography can do to a person. Almost every mass murderer that has been interviewed including guards at death camps like auschwitz were perverts or started out with pornography.

Brother, I just don’t think that that is a healthy nor helpful perspective to assume when thinking about your situation. You’re just not being fair to yourself.

You have to forgive yourself. Another thing is that you have to accept the fact that you’re human, which means that you have to accept the fact of your own weakness.

Look at Peter, who openly rejected that he even knew Jesus, and wept bitter tears for that sin. Yet when he saw the Lord he couldn’t wait for the boat to come to shore but instead jumped into the water and swam to Christ because of his repentance and need for forgiveness.

Keep going to confession. Try to keep track of the causes or sources of anxiety in your life. Anxiety is a choice weapon that the devils exploit in order to induce sexual temptation, especially during trough periods. You may find that the times when your anxiety is high are the same times that you find yourself assaulted by these pornographic images.

Or otherwise when you feel that things in your life are dull or drab or empty. The temptation during these times is always to reach for something to make you feel better, to take you to an emotional “peak”, rather than to accept the dryness or emptiness as an invitation to seek Christ more earnestly.

C.S. Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters” have been a great help in this regard. I suggest you take a look at them. He specifically intended them to be an insight into the psychology of temptation, but from the other side.

Focus on the Family also has a dramatic presentation of them that you can download fro free on mp3.

I’ll be praying for you as well.

May God bless you with the grace of freedom that you so desire.

Amandil

 

[matt1917]

Well obvioulsy you speak much wisdom but putting it into practice is different.

I dont know about screw tape letters because it was written by a noncatholic and I dont like fiction or novels. I just like to get to the point with as few words as possible. That is why I like Dave armstrongs “one minute Apologist”. Right to the point in few but eloquent words.

I dont retain things if it isnt.

As far as appreciating beauty that GOd has made, Sexually perverted fantasies are dark, from Hell, and an the desire is an act of violence and debauchery against the person made in the image an likeness of God. Degradation of the person, who is a temple of God, is not appreciating and glorifying God’s work.

That is the whole point. I cant look at attractive women and see them as you should see a human being.

So id rather not have been born. Not just because of this issue however. God bless!

 

[Amandil]

Well obvioulsy you speak much wisdom but putting it into practice is different.

I dont know about screw tape letters because it was written by a noncatholic and I dont like fiction or novels. I just like to get to the point with as few words as possible. That is why I like Dave armstrongs “one minute Apologist”. Right to the point in few but eloquent words.

C.S. Lewis is the most Catholic “non-Catholic” you will ever have the privilege of reading. He was heavily influenced by one of his closest friends: J.R.R. Tolkien.

I beg you to at least give him a chance! He’s been a great help to me.
matt1917;11547087:

As far as appreciating beauty that GOd has made, Sexually perverted fantasies are dark, from Hell, and an the desire is an act of violence and debauchery against the person made in the image an likeness of God. Degradation of the person, who is a temple of God, is not appreciating and glorifying God’s work.

That is the whole point. I cant look at attractive women and see them as you should see a human being.

I’m not disagreeing with you. But I’m trying to confirm to you that you are still loved by Christ. He is with you even in those instances where your fantasies are the darkest.

I’m also trying to show you that there is no reason why you have to feel or think that you have to be conquered by them. The fantasies are not sinful in themselves, they are attacks by devils to prey on your weakness. Its what you do with them which is sinful.

Do you entertain them? Or do you go to God for relief?

God gives all of us sufficient grace to overcome these things. And He always provides a way of escape.

Again, look at St. Francis. There is absolutely no reason why you should think that you “should not have been born”. There is nothing supernatural about what St. Francis did when he was attacked with pornographic images, the same attacks that you yourself suffer.

I KNOW, the Lord knows that I know, that it is not easy. Its takes daily prayer, and practice, and frequent confession. Its like doing spiritual pull-ups. You have to start with one.

But if you just give up on yourself, your “can’t” becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Christ believes in you, and He will not give up on you! So don’t give up on Him!

And don’t give up on yourself!

 

[matt1917]

C.S. Lewis is the most Catholic “non-Catholic” you will ever have the privilege of reading. He was heavily influenced by one of his closest friends: J.R.R. Tolkien.

I beg you to at least give him a chance! He’s been a great help to me.

I’m not disagreeing with you. But I’m trying to confirm to you that you are still loved by Christ. He is with you even in those instances where your fantasies are the darkest.

I’m also trying to show you that there is no reason why you have to feel or think that you have to be conquered by them. The fantasies are not sinful in themselves, they are attacks by devils to prey on your weakness. Its what you do with them which is sinful.

Do you entertain them? Or do you go to God for relief?

God gives all of us sufficient grace to overcome these things. And He always provides a way of escape.

Again, look at St. Francis. There is absolutely no reason why you should think that you “should not have been born”. There is nothing supernatural about what St. Francis did when he was attacked with pornographic images, the same attacks that you yourself suffer.

I KNOW, the Lord knows that I know, that it is not easy. Its takes daily prayer, and practice, and frequent confession. Its like doing spiritual pull-ups. You have to start with one.

But if you just give up on yourself, your “can’t” becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Christ believes in you, and He will not give up on you! So don’t give up on Him!

And don’t give up on yourself!

As far as “do I entertain them or go to God for relief”? I used to be more of a soldier but recently do to despair, I’ve been more lukewarm. Im actually going through a major trial of my faith. Possibly the worst since my conversion. Say a Hail Mary and the Lord’s prayer for me.

 

[sirach2v4]

Yes it is intrinsically gravely disordered. Such would be grave matter for mortal sin. It cannot be done.

iintrinsically grave matter is a necessary requisite for a mortal sin but it is not sufficient.

consider what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says

1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.

So… masturbation is not necessarily a mortal sin, when modified by any of these conditions.

When these conditions may apply, (as I have said many times in these forums) I don’t think you even have to confess it as a sin, as venial sins do not have to be confessed before receiving Holy Communion.

There are different circumstances of masturbation (I’ll leave it at that) and those might affect which category of exception may apply.

I have read a good share of Jewish commentaries and books on spirituality. In the pursuit of earthly perfection, we should be oriented towards resisting all urges of the flesh. We should be guided by our intellect and free will to choose not to sin. The Rabbis prescribe that a prayer be said before performing a (positive or negative) mitzvah [command], so this practice of prayer – in this case, prayer over the sacrifice of self-will to masturbate-- should be said sincerely and perhaps repeated until the urge to sinful action has passed. We should concentrate on the positive commands to love and serve God.

Jews and Christians have developed theological and philosophical castles in the air to distinguish themselves from each other. don’t kid yourself. Read what Jesus says at the end of Mt’s gospel, about teaching all nations to observe (obey) what he has commanded.

We should be people who are experts on knowing and doing what Christ has commanded us to do.