Is modern music liturgical?

[GerardP]

As I said before, I think there’s room for many types of music and many different instruments - but I do think they belong each at their own Mass. That way, a traditionalist can attend the 10:00 AM mass for example, if he or she knows that the music is led with the organ and classical hymns or chant are used. Someone like me would attend the 6:00 PM Lifeteen Mass…I don’t think one style of worship fits all. I thank God that there is no exclusivity in this matter and accomodations for many styles are made in many parishes.

Peace,
Greg

The problem with that is there is only one Sacrifice on Calvary.
If you are doing something at Mass that you wouldn’t do at the foot of the Cross. You probably shouldn’t be doing it at Mass.

I’ve seen banjos and saxophones with strutting up and down the aisles. It has nothing to do with Christ’s sacrifice saving us from sin.

Make yourself learn to worship the way the Church has wisely developed forms of worship over the centuries. We have the rest of the week to accomodate ourselves according to our tastes. (Provided there is nothing intrinsically wrong with what we do)

 

[Sarabande]

I remember talking to a Protestant friend of mine and lamenting the music at my church (which has a great choir who’s talents are lost on rather poor music). He was shocked. He had assumed that a Catholic Church would have the best worship music considering our history and the legendary composers we’ve had and that was not to mention the Gregorian Chants.

I just nodded and said “you’d think so wouldn’t you?”

That’s funny, I’ve also had Protestant and Jewish friends who lamented the same thing to me. My former voice teacher, who is Jewish, always told me that she thought it was a tragedy to see so much of the Catholic repertoire from centuries past just tossed aside, especially during the 70s and 80s and even the 90s. I grew up after Vatican II, so didn’t know anything about our musical past. She was the one who helped spur a greater interest in our sacred music history and also taught me some chant as she was a cantor at her synogogue and knew how to chant very well.

 

[batteddy]

Contemporary hymns and such are NOT liturgical, by definition.

Theoretically modern music could be written that is liturgical, but the spirituals and hymns and nonsense we get…though nice in other spiritual settings (private prayers, processions, faith festivals)…are not liturgical, by definition.

Liturgical music is that set to the liturgical texts. “Liturgical music” means setting the Ordinary and Proper texts of mass to music. Traditionally, this was chant for the propers, and either chant or polyphony for the ordinary.

Current regulations give no reason why polyphony couldnt be extended to the propers (though it isn’t traditional) or why modern musical settings of the ordinary and propers can’t be composed…so they theoretically could be.

But extra-liturgical hymns inserted at the entrance, offertory, and communion…are not liturgical.

The only normal place for such extra-liturgical music would be at the recessional.

Liturgical music for the entrance, offertory, and communion…would by definition use the prescribed antiphon for those times.

Liturgical music means music set to the prescribed liturgical texts.

Those other songs we hear at the Novus Ordo at the entrance, offertory, and communion…are religious but not liturgical by definition. The Novus Ordo allows this instead of liturgical music, but it is not liturgical and not traditional.

Liturgical music technically means music set to the prescribed liturgical texts.

 

[j_grover_67]

Hi! I am newbie at this. I don’t know how to start this, but I am looking for some help.

At my parish we are trying to find new music hymnal, but I haven’t seen anything except for OCP and WLP. We would like to stay with a seasonal missalette, so they can be disposed of when they look old. Is there anything else out there that we can look at?

Thank you for the help.

 

[rlg94086]

Hi! I am newbie at this. I don’t know how to start this, but I am looking for some help.

At my parish we are trying to find new music hymnal, but I haven’t seen anything except for OCP and WLP. We would like to stay with a seasonal missalette, so they can be disposed of when they look old. Is there anything else out there that we can look at?

Thank you for the help.

If you can give me until the weekend, I will let you know on the missalettes. Father told me we will be an “OCP-free parish” at the start of the next liturgical year. I’m not sure what is coming, but I will ask.

As far as hymnals, we currently use the St. Michael Hymnal: stmichaelhymnal.com/

However, for our Latin Mass, we have an additional handout with the chants. The only hymns sung by the assembly are the entrance and recessional. The rest is chant or polyphony choir. The only music from our missalette right now is the Psalm response.

 

[bear06]

Does anyone know of any good Gregorian Chant or Polyphonic English Sacred Music resources? Thanks. I was born after Vatican II.

You might also want to check with Ignatius Press. My kids choir uses much of the Adoremus Hymnal which has chant and polyphony. Don’t think for a minute that teens won’t like it. My kids are into modern music for listening for fun but hate it for Mass. They understand that different occasions call for different types of music. For example, you don’t have tense music for a comedy movie. If you can learn how to teach polyphony/chant the kids will more than likely be excited about how professional they can sound singing it.

I loved modern music as a teen (still do) but I really appreciated the Church in town that sang tunes like Faith of Our Fathers and Panis Angelicus way better than my Church that did “Sing to the Mountains”.

 

[Warren_Stassi]

Thank God finally someone who remembers the Gregorian Chants.

 

[JFonseka]

It doesn’t matter what the type of music it is, as long as the focus of the song in that genre of music is on God.

So in essence, even if it is heavy metal or rap, if it’s glorifying God, there is nothing wrong with it. Some people relate to certain themes or subjects or God if they like the music, it makes no sense to play Gregorian chants to 14 year olds if they don’t really feel the music and hence don’t really connect with God.

 

[rlg94086]

It doesn’t matter what the type of music it is, as long as the focus of the song in that genre of music is on God.

So in essence, even if it is heavy metal or rap, if it’s glorifying God, there is nothing wrong with it. Some people relate to certain themes or subjects or God if they like the music, it makes no sense to play Gregorian chants to 14 year olds if they don’t really feel the music and hence don’t really connect with God.

So, you are in favor of a heavy metal or rap Mass?

 

[JFonseka]

So, you are in favor of a heavy metal or rap Mass?

I have a feeling I’m missing something here…do you mean to say the WHOLE mass is carried out in music? I thought this was about the songs or music that the choir usually plays every now and then during the mass.

 

[JFonseka]

I can’t say—modern music keeps changing. Here today gone tomorrow.

If it didn’t keep changing, it wouldn’t be modern music would it? So no point in stating the obvious

 

[rlg94086]

I have a feeling I’m missing something here…do you mean to say the WHOLE mass is carried out in music? I thought this was about the songs or music that the choir usually plays every now and then during the mass.

So, the rest of the Mass is Gregorian Chant?

Okay…so are you in favor of heavy metal or rap at anytime during Mass?

 

[JFonseka]

So, the rest of the Mass is Gregorian Chant?

Okay…so are you in favor of heavy metal or rap at anytime during Mass?

I don’t personally like rap, so I wouldn’t be too fond of it during the mass, but I do not see what’s wrong with it if it appeals to people who like that type of music. Recently in Sydney there was a priest called Father Stan who rapped, who played jazz, his prayers were often in the form of those two and he played the bass too.

As a result he drew a lot of people to come. There is not only one way to come to God through music, there are many different types of music and not everyone likes the same genre, I personally love gregorian chants and much of the old music, but many people don’t. Sticking with ‘tradition’ is what Jesus warned about didn’t he? Gregorian chants were probably the in thing hundreds of years ago, but not anymore, you have to accept it, the majority of the people in this day and age accepts God better when put in context of the modern day, it doesn’t mean you have to change the word of God or anything like that, it’s the same word but with a different exterior, the exterior being the instrumentation, the beat and the melody.

If you want to show modern kids about God, you are unlikely to get them if you start playing Gregorian chants They are likely to think that God is boring.

So in conclusion, yes I do not mind seeing heavy metal at mass, what is heavy metal? Distorted guitars, fast drum beat usually, strong rhythms, if the lyrics are about God and glorifying him, it helps people who do appreciate that music strengthen their faith and become more ‘involved’. The same goes for rap, there is not just one way to worship God…

That being said, I doubt there would be heavy metal at mass anytime soon because of all the old folk

 

[rlg94086]

Does Fr. Stan actually do Mass with rap? I’ve heard of him, but I am not familiar with his practices.

I think it is a terrible idea to have the music of the Mass vary as wildly as it would by appealing to all the different musical tastes.

As far as drawing kids/teens to God, it doesn’t have to be done with modern music at Mass.

As far as tradition - I believe we are supposed to “hold fast to traditions.”

I don’t personally like rap, so I wouldn’t be too fond of it during the mass, but I do not see what’s wrong with it if it appeals to people who like that type of music. Recently in Sydney there was a priest called Father Stan who rapped, who played jazz, his prayers were often in the form of those two and he played the bass too.

As a result he drew a lot of people to come. There is not only one way to come to God through music, there are many different types of music and not everyone likes the same genre, I personally love gregorian chants and much of the old music, but many people don’t. Sticking with ‘tradition’ is what Jesus warned about didn’t he? Gregorian chants were probably the in thing hundreds of years ago, but not anymore, you have to accept it, the majority of the people in this day and age accepts God better when put in context of the modern day, it doesn’t mean you have to change the word of God or anything like that, it’s the same word but with a different exterior, the exterior being the instrumentation, the beat and the melody.

If you want to show modern kids about God, you are unlikely to get them if you start playing Gregorian chants They are likely to think that God is boring.

So in conclusion, yes I do not mind seeing heavy metal at mass, what is heavy metal? Distorted guitars, fast drum beat usually, strong rhythms, if the lyrics are about God and glorifying him, it helps people who do appreciate that music strengthen their faith and become more ‘involved’. The same goes for rap, there is not just one way to worship God…

That being said, I doubt there would be heavy metal at mass anytime soon because of all the old folk

 

[JFonseka]

Does Fr. Stan actually do Mass with rap? I’ve heard of him, but I am not familiar with his practices.

I think it is a terrible idea to have the music of the Mass vary as wildly as it would by appealing to all the different musical tastes.

As far as drawing kids/teens to God, it doesn’t have to be done with modern music at Mass.

As far as tradition - I believe we are supposed to “hold fast to traditions.”

No…this is not what I meant, I am referring to the music during mass, did I say something else? I may have mixed up something, I am just referring to like when the choir comes in, you know, gospel acclamation, the music at the beginning of mass and at the end, i don’t mean that when the priest is saying the gospel rapping lol, I don’t agree with that, because that would rather distracting, if it’s not meant to be a song, then don’t make it one!

I am just referring to the MUSICAL PARTS during the mass

 

[rlg94086]

No…this is not what I meant, I am referring to the music during mass, did I say something else? I may have mixed up something, I am just referring to like when the choir comes in, you know, gospel acclamation, the music at the beginning of mass and at the end, i don’t mean that when the priest is saying the gospel rapping lol, I don’t agree with that, because that would rather distracting, if it’s not meant to be a song, then don’t make it one!

I am just referring to the MUSICAL PARTS during the mass

You are a little confused I think. Mass is not everything except the MUSICAL PARTS. When I ask if a certain music is used for the Mass, I’m talking about anywhere during the Mass - “gospel acclamation, the music at the beginning of mass and at the end,” etc.

 

[agapewolf]

Fr. STan does not rap during Mass. He is an amazing musician that draws teens in with rap and playing bass and guitar and looping.

BUT… he does Steubenville youth conferences…in which we do lifeteen type of music at Mass.

 

[JFonseka]

You are a little confused I think. Mass is not everything except the MUSICAL PARTS. When I ask if a certain music is used for the Mass, I’m talking about anywhere during the Mass - “gospel acclamation, the music at the beginning of mass and at the end,” etc.

Ok well, then that’s what I meant all along, I don’t see a problem with heavy metal during a mass as long as everyone in that mass doesn’t have a problem with it. There is more than one way to praise God and it doesn’t have to be a gregorian chant or something made in medieval europe, strictly speaking what the early early Christians did were probably quite different to what the europeans did for their first masses, so which one is right? I can easily argue their methods were quite different and they “held fast to their traditions” but the europeans changed it.

 

[rlg94086]

Ok well, then that’s what I meant all along, I don’t see a problem with heavy metal during a mass as long as everyone in that mass doesn’t have a problem with it. There is more than one way to praise God and it doesn’t have to be a gregorian chant or something made in medieval europe, strictly speaking what the early early Christians did were probably quite different to what the europeans did for their first masses, so which one is right? I can easily argue their methods were quite different and they “held fast to their traditions” but the europeans changed it.

You might be able to…if you hadn’t already argued that Jesus warned about sticking with tradition.

 

[4life4nfp]

Ath this time, I should re-phrase the question…
Is modern music Sacred?

I am not sure how the church is globally, but here in the States, at least in the south, I see more and more young people being attracted to the older sacred music. Not that anything is wrong with other genres of music. Can we agree that all are not appropriate for Mass. Does modern sacred music exist?

Chant to Polyphony to ??