Is "Moral Theology" a good idea?

[Lee44]

Hi,

It seems to me that many posters come to this section of the forum for guidence. I could be wrong, but I did when I joined this forum. What worries me are people looking for justification from the “Internet” for certain acts. Its like the pose a moral question and count all the yea’s or nea’s and its all taken care of. Is there not some danger in this. For me it was. I got totally confused and angry, but all it took in real life for me was to confess my sins to a Priest and I am also undergoing counseling. Does anyone understand where I am coming from?

Peace,
Lee44

 

[Creiddylad]

I feel it’s dangerous to people’s mental states to come on this board and require justification and validation that every single thing they are doing isn’t considered “sinful” to everyone else. It actually scares me greatly that people need guidance that every action they’re taking in life isn’t violating some sort of moral code.
I find it very sad indeed that some people are like this, living in fear their entire lives that they’re doing something wrong and they’re not free to do anything until they’ve gotten some form of validation. I feel people need to make their own decisions, rather than relying on others to make them for them. It seems like no matter what it is, there’s always someone who thinks a certain act or whatnot is wrong in some respect. I don’t know why so many people allow themselves to be controlled - weren’t we given free will? I say no-one knows what is “right” for you better than you yourself do.

 

[thistle]

I feel it’s dangerous to people’s mental states to come on this board and require justification and validation that every single thing they are doing isn’t considered “sinful” to everyone else. It actually scares me greatly that people need guidance that every action they’re taking in life isn’t violating some sort of moral code.
I find it very sad indeed that some people are like this, living in fear their entire lives that they’re doing something wrong and they’re not free to do anything until they’ve gotten some form of validation. I feel people need to make their own decisions, rather than relying on others to make them for them. It seems like no matter what it is, there’s always someone who thinks a certain act or whatnot is wrong in some respect. I don’t know why so many people allow themselves to be controlled - weren’t we given free will? I say no-one knows what is “right” for you better than you yourself do.

These are discussion forums for exchange of views. If you don’t like this idea then don’t come to them!! Free will means we can talk to each other without some atheist coming here and telling not to!

 

[stbruno]

Today the reading from Genesis 2 at morning mass fits here…
8 And the *LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. **9 **And out of the ground the LORD God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. **15 **The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it. **16 **And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; **17 **but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.” *

God gave Adam and Eve one very simple rule…and the devil came by and planted a false idea that the reason God did not want them to eat from the tree of life was that they would become as smart as God.
My recommendation is simple too…God never lies to us when He sets forth moral and natural laws for us. He does it so that we could one day be happy with Him in heaven. But He didn’t want robots to love Him. He gave us a free will so we could decide for ourselves. Some of us are very clear and strong enough to not fall to the temptation of the devil. For some of us, we need reminders of how the devil comes disguised…and for most of us, we need the strength of others to decide was it is the truth. Secular society in most cases disguises the truth or negates the truth or justifies wrong as so called “right” or “Freedom.” I believe that is why people who are on the fence come to these forums…to find others who are not struggling with the truth, but live and believe the truth, so they can grow in their faith. That is why it is dangerous to believe that religion is a personal act…That is why as Catholics, why whenever we are stopped and ask, Do you accept as your Lord and Savior…that we are tongue tied, because we believe that accepting is only the first step, not the last step…Conversion, faith, religion…means changing our hearts, our actions and working to become closer to the one who is love…Jesus!

 

[fix]

I feel people need to make their own decisions, rather than relying on others to make them for them. It seems like no matter what it is, there’s always someone who thinks a certain act or whatnot is wrong in some respect. I don’t know why so many people allow themselves to be controlled - weren’t we given free will? I say no-one knows what is “right” for you better than you yourself do.

Conscience judges particular moral choices. Conscience can be in error. Folks with a good and tender conscience seek the truth. They want to properly inform and form their conscience so that they may act in accord with the will of God. We cannot properly form our conscience unless we seek the truth. We all need to ask questions and pray and study. If we think we can come to a right conclusion simply by following our private opinions or feelings we are not living as God desires.

 

[JimG]

As much as I love CAF, I agree with Lee44 that when faced with personal moral decisions, the safest bet is to take them to a priest.

There’s nothing wrong with an exchange of opinions, and I like to see them here. But it’s best to be careful when it comes to matters of the soul.

Just to be a little extreme, consider what might have happened had CAF been around in Adam and Eve’s time.

They would have posted a question, perhaps in Moral Theology: “God says we can’t eat of this one tree! What’s the deal? What do you think?” Followed by a poll, and numerous responses. Hey, it’s only venial! Follow your conscience! etc. (The serpent would have registered under a pseudonym, or maybe several.)

After reading all the responses, Adam and Eve might be even more confused!

 

[blessedtoo]

My observation is that there are primarily two types of posters: those who really want to know what the Church teaches, and those who want to argue with Church teaching. In the case of the former, I think the forums are invaluable because there are members here who can provide links that will give the Church’s answer and not opinion. There are members who have had first hand experiences with some of the problems that come up regularly and offer sage advice. Most members, when confronted with profound issues, advise seeking guidance with a priest. I have found the forums to be quite safe and faithful.

In the case of the latter, debate is always lively (and sometimes contentious) but the Church’s teaching is always presented. I have observed that when you come to the forums with questions on morality, you pretty much get what you are looking for. If what you seek is validation for sin, you can always find a stray poster who will align with your cause. By and large, most members uphold the morality taught in the Catechism.

 

[Gwythr]

I think that those who argue also seek the truth, only they seek it in a different way than others. Creiddylad is right in this. People come onto this forum asking if every step they take is the “catholic” thing to do. That’s living in a constant state of fear, and that’s no way to live. Yes, people are looking for guidance here, but they are looking for the wrong reasons and far too often. It isn’t healthy, and I’ve seen what happens when people constantly question how “catholic” everything is that they do. I’ve seen break downs, medications, counseling, and so forth because of scruples.

thistle, Creiddylad is giving a view. Just as you’re allowed to. And you don’t know if they are atheist or not.

 

[blessedtoo]

I think that those who argue also seek the truth, only they seek it in a different way than others.

That may be true for some, but most of the folks that come onto these forums to argue have already made up their minds. In the nearly two years I have been coming to CAF, I can count on one hand how many of these types of argumentative threads have resulted in converting the dissenter.

Creiddylad is right in this. People come onto this forum asking if every step they take is the “catholic” thing to do. That’s living in a constant state of fear, and that’s no way to live.

Gosh, I think that’s a tremendous exaggeration. “Every step”? You must certainly agree that we live in an age of terrible moral confusion. We also see alot of young or new Catholics come to CAF. They have questions because life is complex and living as a faithful Catholic profoundly challenging. I am an old style cradle Catholic and I still come to CAF with questions. When I run out of questions, boy, I’m in trouble.

Yes, people are looking for guidance here, but they are looking for the wrong reasons and far too often.

How could you possibly judge their reasons? How could you even begin to know what is in their hearts? Or what constitutes “too often”?

It isn’t healthy, and I’ve seen what happens when people constantly question how “catholic” everything is that they do. I’ve seen break downs, medications, counseling, and so forth because of scruples.

The members here are extremely sharp and can spot a case of scruples almost immediately. Each and every time I have seen this the poster is counseled to speak to a priest. I can’t know to what you are referring when you reference break downs and medications, but a person who suffers a mental breakdown and requires medication is obviously reacting to something besides interactions on a Catholic forum.

 

[fix]

I think that those who argue also seek the truth, only they seek it in a different way than others. Creiddylad is right in this. People come onto this forum asking if every step they take is the “catholic” thing to do. That’s living in a constant state of fear, and that’s no way to live. Yes, people are looking for guidance here, but they are looking for the wrong reasons and far too often. It isn’t healthy, and I’ve seen what happens when people constantly question how “catholic” everything is that they do. I’ve seen break downs, medications, counseling, and so forth because of scruples.

thistle, Creiddylad is giving a view. Just as you’re allowed to. And you don’t know if they are atheist or not.

I have read this charge here often. I find it to be a common misperception regarding folks who strive to increase in holiness. The Catholic faith is true and it is not the etiology of scrupulosity or OCD. Of course some segment of the population will suffer from these conditions, but moral theology is not their source.

I could just as well argue our culture today suffers from laxism and moral relativism. When I read these legitimate questions from folks I am always pleased and edified that their are so many with such a tender conscience that they seek answers and are asking questions.

We have become accustomed to the incorrect idea that our consceince can decide what is the right course of action simply by holding an opinion or claiming to have prayed about something without making the effort to learn what Christ teaches on some subject through His Church.

 

[Sixtus]

Originally posted by Creiddylad
I feel it’s dangerous to people’s mental states to come on this board and require justification and validation that every single thing they are doing isn’t considered “sinful” to everyone else. It actually scares me greatly that people need guidance that every action they’re taking in life isn’t violating some sort of moral code.
I find it very sad indeed that some people are like this, living in fear their entire lives that they’re doing something wrong and they’re not free to do anything until they’ve gotten some form of validation. I feel people need to make their own decisions, rather than relying on others to make them for them. It seems like no matter what it is, there’s always someone who thinks a certain act or whatnot is wrong in some respect.

/QUOTE]

I know just what you mean Creiddyla. I too have sought the views of others and frankly found some of them very disturbing. So disturbing in fact, that I have become quite depressed that I am damned to hell for all eternity. Then I have discussed it with a Priest and had ‘all my fears alleviated’ with the very strong advice ‘stay away from the forums’. But, I also think it is good for the soul to discuss with like-mined folk and have had some fantastic conversations here and made some fantastic friends

, These are discussion forums for exchange of views. If you don’t like this idea then don’t come to them!! !

Creiddylad has as much right to come here as anyone else, in fact as much right to come here and post as you Thistle and I!

If you don’t like this idea then don’t come to them!

I think that is a very uncharitable thing to say to a lady. I think one should apologise.

I

 

[gorman64]

These types of questions should be discussed with your (orthodox minded) confessor. Moral theology is not an area that the trained let alone untrained layman should be instructing others in.

 

[Eliza10]

As much as I love CAF, I agree with Lee44 that when faced with personal moral decisions, the safest bet is to take them to a priest.

:clapping: :bowdown2:

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There’s nothing wrong with an exchange of opinions, and I like to see them here. But it’s best to be careful when it comes to matters of the soul.

Yes. matters of the soul! Thats what sets us apart form othre forums, and from the Moral Theology of the populace at large. A culture that screams free speech as top priority. We have different priorities here. The care and feeding of souls. Thats because we’re Catholic.

But this thread will offend some people, because the very sugfgestions threaten the sacred cow - freedom of speech, and its offspring - freedom of action. The characterizations and judgements against the offenders will fly!

Just to be a little extreme, consider what might have happened had CAF been around in Adam and Eve’s time.
They would have posted a question, perhaps in Moral Theology: “God says we can’t eat of this one tree! What’s the deal? What do you think?” Followed by a poll, and numerous responses. Hey, it’s only venial! Follow your conscience! etc…

Great example.

(The serpent would have registered under a pseudonym, or maybe several.) …

Yes. And, um, where do we run into these guys?

I agree with Lee, our OP, that we are doing a disservice in this forum for the reasons cited. I hope this discussion will lead to some rethinking how we treat these topics. The forum needs to grow and evolve as needs become evident.

 

[Pug]

Hi,

It seems to me that many posters come to this section of the forum for guidence.

I think it would be mostly unhelpful to come here if one really needed to go to confession instead. This is no replacement.

However, I’ve seen people come here and be given information and be glad to have received it. Internet forums are not like real life (or maybe they are like real life, just on steroids). I had to learn how to deal with forums before I could happily exist as a member. I don’t think they are the best place for some people to hang out.

I like being able to discuss moral issues. I don’t currently have anywhere else to do that. It is a whole aspect of my being and it helps to be able to talk about it.

 

[Chancellare]

My observation is that there are primarily two types of posters: those who really want to know what the Church teaches, and those who want to argue with Church teaching. In the case of the former, I think the forums are invaluable because there are members here who can provide links that will give the Church’s answer and not opinion. There are members who have had first hand experiences with some of the problems that come up regularly and offer sage advice. Most members, when confronted with profound issues, advise seeking guidance with a priest. I have found the forums to be quite safe and faithful.

In the case of the latter, debate is always lively (and sometimes contentious) but the Church’s teaching is always presented. I have observed that when you come to the forums with questions on morality, you pretty much get what you are looking for. If what you seek is validation for sin, you can always find a stray poster who will align with your cause. By and large, most members uphold the morality taught in the Catechism.

Without disagreeing with your typology, there is in fact a 3rd type: those who can help elucidate the stand of the Catholic Church from an educated layman’s view. Sometimes, it is more acceptable to hear it from those who have gone through the struggle of acceptance concerning some of the difficult doctrines than from that of a cloistered clergy. In the end it will all come from a particular article in the CCC or Encyclical and we may be talking of the same thing, but to hear it from a Dick or Harry who has experienced the same dillemma, could be easier to relate to.

 

[blessedtoo]

Without disagreeing with your typology, there is in fact a 3rd type: those who can help elucidate the stand of the Catholic Church from an educated layman’s view. Sometimes, it is more acceptable to hear it from those who have gone through the struggle of acceptance concerning some of the difficult doctrines than from that of a cloistered clergy. In the end it will all come from a particular article in the CCC or Encyclical and we may be talking of the same thing, but to hear it from a Dick or Harry who has experienced the same dillemma, could be easier to relate to.

I agree!