Is Mormonism A Christian Religion?

[Bluegoat]

I have a question for some of those who have answered no because of lack of baptism. Many Orthodox Christians, either EO or OO, don’t really see non-Orthodox baptism as “valid”. They seem to recognize both Protestants and Catholics as Christians though. If they chose not to due to the baptism issue, would you be offended/argue with that approach?

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have a question for some of those who have answered no because of lack of baptism. Many Orthodox Christians, either EO or OO, don’t really see non-Orthodox baptism as “valid”. They seem to recognize both Protestants and Catholics as Christians though. If they chose not to due to the baptism issue, would you be offended/argue with that approach?

Seriously, this Orthodox practice of re-baptizing Christians can in no way be understood if one is recognizing what, exactly, a valid baptism is and does.

 

[Bluegoat]

Seriously, this Orthodox practice of re-baptizing can in no way be understood if one is recognizing what, exactly, a valid baptism is and does. They have lost their way on this one.

I would really prefer to not get into this discussion, it wasn’t what I was asking. (I also wasn’t referring to re-baptising, but to the idea that non-Orthodox baptism is likely/possibly not valid, which is pretty consistent with their understanding of the sacraments in general, though obviously the two are related.)

 

[Todd520]

To my understanding the doctrinal differences between Catholics and Mormons are so antethetical to each other that accepting the two belief systems as remotely equall or valid or in correspondence to reality would be an exercise in cognitive dissonance IMO.

I urge you to look deeper if that’s how you feel.
The religions are clearly different, but many of the points that are brought up sensationaly by anti-LDS are actually Catholic or biblical in origin.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I would really prefer to not get into this discussion, it wasn’t what I was asking. (I also wasn’t referring to re-baptising, but to the idea that non-Orthodox baptism is likely/possibly not valid, which is pretty consistent with their understanding of the sacraments in general, though obviously the two are related.)

The Orthodox who re-baptize would have to explain how people who are of one faith, one baptism, are not Christian.

It is easy for Christians to explain how Mormons are not of one faith, one baptism. It begins with Who we worship. We worship the Holy Trinity, not the Mormon “father” who is singled out from a pantheon of infinite gods, of which they believe themselves to belong to one day, as gods, who will be worshiped.

Their errors are so great, they are not even of the same vine. They use Christian language but the meaning behind that language has been greatly disfigured.

There is not even a close comparison of this when talking about Christians. Catholics, East and West and all Christians, are nearly perfectly united when one takes a glance in the direction of Mormonism.

 

[Todd520]

I have a question for some of those who have answered no because of lack of baptism. Many Orthodox Christians, either EO or OO, don’t really see non-Orthodox baptism as “valid”. They seem to recognize both Protestants and Catholics as Christians though. If they chose not to due to the baptism issue, would you be offended/argue with that approach?

It sounds to me like they are following a more standard or dictionary definition of christian, where baptism is not part of the definition, and claiming to be christian does not confirm you are saved, just that you are trying to follow his teachings.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I urge you to look deeper if that’s how you feel.
The religions are clearly different, but many of the points that are brought up sensationaly by anti-LDS are actually Catholic or biblical in origin.

There is no sensationalism, only Truth. LDS have points that are Catholic in origin? I haven’t yet figured out why you continue to attempt to deceive people with statements such as this.

 

[Bluegoat]

The Orthodox who re-baptize would have to explain how people who are of one faith, one baptism, are not Christian.

It is easy for Christians to explain how Mormons are not of one faith, one baptism. It begins with Who we worship. We worship the Holy Trinity, not the Mormon “father” who is singled out from a pantheon of infinite gods, of which they believe themselves to belong to one day, as gods, who will be worshiped.

Their errors are so great, they are not even of the same vine. They use Christian language but the meaning behind that language has been greatly disfigured.

There is not even a close comparison of this when talking about Christians. Catholics, East and West and all Christians, are nearly perfectly united when one takes a glance in the direction of Mormonism.

So you would be offended if an OO decided to say Catholics aren’t Christian because they are not validly baptized? (not that they would say you weren’t not Christian, but if they followed that logic.)

 

[KathleenGee]

Bluegoat…

Isn’t your statement then dismantling? How about Mormonism’s assertion that the Catholic Church is false because of the great apostasy occuring at the beginning of Christianity irregardless of historical documentation?

Catholicism has its tenants. It reveals the fullness of God’s revelation to us, because Christ is the final revelation, not Joseph Smith or Mohammed. But depending on the fruits – those that do not violate the dictates of the 10 commandments and the common good – various religions and organizations have a degree of truth.

 

[JeanMichel]

The question came up on Mitt Romney during the 2008 primaries and now concerning Glenn Beck- is Mormonism a Christian religion?

The question (or attacks) seemed to be raised primarily by Evangelicals. I am far from an expert on LDS, but I am familiar with the differences on the scriptures, the different levels of heaven and the rather bizarre “revelations” given to Joseph Smith while looking inside his hat. None of this relates even remotely to Catholicism or Protestantism. On the other hand, the only Mormons I know anything about, Romney and Beck, devoutly believe in Jesus and recognize that salvation comes from Jesus’ death on the cross.

In short, does the Catholic Church consider Mormonism to be a Christian religion?

Thanks in advance for any replies

Jerry

This question of who is and who is not a Christian is always interesting. For me, going to the Bible and finding out who was a Christian, or a follower of Jesus, seems like the absolute best example to follow. Those that followed Jesus believed he was the promised Messiah. They believed he was the Son of God and the only way to heaven. The believe he performed miracles. They believed he was perfect and because of that perfection he could pay the ultimate price on the cross for all the sins of the world. They believe that he rose again on the third day, appeared to many of his followers, returned to his Father in Heaven, and promised to return again one day. Jesus taught his followers to repent and be baptized. To pray in his name when speaking to the Father and that the Second Comforter would come one day. Jesus also said that you would recognize his followers by their works; that those whose fruit was good would be known as his people.

Every other belief that we Christians use to dissect who is a “real” Christian is ancillary to the scriptures. It is interesting how these additional beliefs became paramount and why.

When I look at an individual who believes these things, I view them as a Christian, or a follower of Christ. I recognize them as a kindred spirit that is doing their utmost to follow the Savior of the World. They may belong to different churches/denominations, they may have additional different beliefs than me, but what makes them one with me is their belief in Christ. I cannot think of any other great belief or doctrine than Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

My thoughts may be heretical to other Christians, but I have faith that my beliefs are firmly built on Jesus and his Gospel. Organized religion teaches me and all others to believe only one way, deny the faith of others in Jesus, find ways and means to divide the body of Christ or even to cut some off from the body of Christ completely. What keeps my faith whole is that Jesus is my judge and it does not matter what any organized church says, he is my master and all who follow him are my brother and sister.

 

[Timothy17]

I urge you to look deeper if that’s how you feel.
The religions are clearly different, but many of the points that are brought up sensationaly by anti-LDS are actually Catholic or biblical in origin.

The young catechumen’s observation is profoundly correct, Todd. I find it most telling that you harpooned (of all who are here) i) a catechumen, and ii) a catechumen who is literally correct.

Notice that you i) brought up his “feelings,” then ii) said our two religions are in fact different, then iii) insinutated that the LDS is actually “catholic” or “biblical in origin.”

Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding conflicting ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance. They do this by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and actions.[2] Dissonance is also reduced by justifying, blaming, and denying. It is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.

Your statement directed at the catechumen is cognitive dissonance par excellence. You target feelings, which clouds reason, then openly assert our religions are different, then finish by replacing Mormonism for Catholicism, by insinuating that Mormonism is somehow catholic or biblical. Your statement is brazenly contradictory. The Mormon church is not “biblical in origin,” it originates with Joseph Smith 1,800 years after the Catholic Church originated with Jesus ; furthermore, there is nothing “catholic” about Mormonism, without doing serious injustice to the word, for Mormonism is extremely American, so much so even I as a Canadian was turned off from that aspect of it (before I even had a religion, mind you). Finally, it’s infamous racism, especially against blacks and native Americans (more 19th century American pick-ups, which tell its true origins) makes it utterly non-catholic (universal).

Mormonism is an exercise in cognitive dissonance, and that’s exactly why it’s so effective. They are masters at it.

Pax,
Tim

 

[Bluegoat]

Bluegoat…

Isn’t your statement then dismantling? How about Mormonism’s assertion that the Catholic Church is false because of the great apostasy occuring at the beginning of Christianity irregardless of historical documentation?

Catholicism has its tenants. It reveals the fullness of God’s revelation to us, because Christ is the final revelation, not Joseph Smith or Mohammed. But depending on the fruits – those that do not violate the dictates of the 10 commandments and the common good – various religions and organizations have a degree of truth.

I am not sure what you mean by dismantling?

A gave my answer on page 1.

A number of people stated no on the basis that they have not got valid baptism. I pointed out that by this logic, it would be accurate for EO and OO Christians to say that Catholics and Protestants aren’t Christians (they do not make this argument that I have seen.)

I just wondered if those who support that argument in the case of Mormons would also say that it was a logical argument from an Orthodox POV. My guess is that they would not like it. That would be largely because they object to theidea that their baptism is invalid, however, I think that they would also tend to disagree even apart from that.

 

[KathleenGee]

And your concerns are the very reason Christ instituted His Church…it did not come from Bible books…because there is always the problem with the veil of language…of semantics…of the same words meaning different things to different people…

But the common denominator is that we are all human beings…and the Ideal is Christ Himself…True God and True Man…

The Holy Spirit is the great unifier of believers…but you can’t say we are one when people do not come together. Christ’s prayer on earth was that we would be as one…

One Bread, One Body. We have never been abandoned by the Lord, and we can’t dismantle the truth of what church is here at CAF…we are to support and defend our faith because it comes from Christ Himself…instituted, Sacred Scripture and Sacraments inseparable and drawn on from the communion of saints.

The Sacraments are visible, concrete…no arbitration or doubt…we receive with certainty of faith…certainty one of the chief characteristics of faith. There is a book out by Fr Thomas Dubay, ‘Faith and Certitude’. He even goes so far as to describe continual dissension and doubting of every decree of faith as an intellectual sickness. I am not saying you are like that …not at all…

But the Catholic Church does uphold absolute truth and not relativism.

 

[JoellaFaith]

i know mormon yes they are christians , there church is called The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints they just have another book to go along with it, they used the same bible as bapists do , catholic use a different one but yes there christians, catholic and christians both love Jesus and lds love Jesus

 

[Miriam1947]

i know mormon yes they are christians , there church is called The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints they just have another book to go along with it, they used the same bible as bapists do , catholic use a different one but yes there christians, catholic and christians both love Jesus and lds love Jesus

Ecumenical dialogue is good but make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Study up on Mormonism before you make a blanket statement about their beliefs. Neither the Catholic Church nor any major Christian denomination recognizes a Mormon baptism. If a Mormon wishes to join those churches they must be re-baptized.

Why? Because even though they baptize in the Name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit, their understanding of the Triune God is so far afield that it has no Christian meaning.

They may love Jesus but they do not believe He is God.

 

[Erich]

they just have another book to go along with it

That should be a red flag right there… Catholics (and Orthodox and Protestants for that matter) believe that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle, that the canon of Scripture is closed, and that nothing new can be added to Scripture. Mormonism explicitly rejects this.

From Distinctive Beliefs of the Mormon Church

Are Mormons Protestants? No, but their founder, Joseph Smith, came from a Protestant background, and Protestant presuppositions form part of the basis of Mormonism.

Still, it isn’t correct to call Mormons Protestants, because doing so implies they hold to the essentials of Christianity—what C. S. Lewis termed “mere Christianity.” The fact is, they don’t. Gordon B. Hinckley, the current president and prophet of the Mormon church [note that this was written in 2004], says (in a booklet called What of the Mormons?) that he and his co-religionists “are no closer to Protestantism than they are to Catholicism.”

That isn’t quite right—it would be better to say Mormons are even further from Catholicism than from Protestantism. But Hinckley is right in saying that Mormons are very different from Catholics and Protestants.

 

[SteveVH]

The question came up on Mitt Romney during the 2008 primaries and now concerning Glenn Beck- is Mormonism a Christian religion?

The question (or attacks) seemed to be raised primarily by Evangelicals. I am far from an expert on LDS, but I am familiar with the differences on the scriptures, the different levels of heaven and the rather bizarre “revelations” given to Joseph Smith while looking inside his hat. None of this relates even remotely to Catholicism or Protestantism. On the other hand, the only Mormons I know anything about, Romney and Beck, devoutly believe in Jesus and recognize that salvation comes from Jesus’ death on the cross.

In short, does the Catholic Church consider Mormonism to be a Christian religion?

Thanks in advance for any replies

Jerry

I can’t put my finger on the source, off the top of my head, but I did read that they are so far removed from Christianity that the Catholic Church does not even consider the Mormons to be heretics, but rather another religion entirely. It is why their baptism is not considered to be valid, while nearly all Protestant baptisms are accepted by the Church.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

As to the question: Is Mormonism A Christian Religion? As an active LDS person my opinion is that it is not. While Christ’s grace is one piece of the Mormon puzzle, it is not without the Temple ordinances of Washings and Anointings, Endowment, and Sealing for Time and All Eternity does the rest of the puzzle begin to take shape.

Whether these ordinances are done either in this life or for those who have died by proxy does a person really escapes the bands of hell. In other words most Mormons believe they have the complete puzzle to what it really means to be Christian and all others only have one or two pieces of a much larger puzzle.

Now if you were to ask: Are some Mormons Christian? I would have to say, I have met a few who have have put aside some of the nonsense and feel that they truly are being saved by Grace alone. But the primary focus of the Mormon church now is basically how to raise good Mormon children and teens into believing that following the prophet, reading the Book of Mormon, and getting to the temple ensures salvation.

So again the question: Is Mormonism a (Traditional) Christian Religion? Just about as much as the religion of Islam.

 

[KathleenGee]

WisdomSeeker,

Are you for real???

 

[Jerusha]

Yes, WS is for real. I know him/her from another site. Just very confused. Sometimes it happens when the scales are removed.