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KathleenGee
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Todd…tend to agree with you.
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Javl
Guest
The term Christian in itself means a follower of Christ. Therefore, regardless of their belief, or understanding of Christ, or of His divinity, or position, etc. they are Christians. To the mainline, or Orthodox, Christian they are heretical and not deserving of the term. But, it is not up to us to judge or decide.
The same holds true for all those who do not follow Orthodox Christianity, such as the Jehovahs Witnesses, Christian Science, etc. We have no right to deny them the title.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom haMeshiach
The same holds true for all those who do not follow Orthodox Christianity, such as the Jehovahs Witnesses, Christian Science, etc. We have no right to deny them the title.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom haMeshiach
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TikiTokiguy
Guest
I spent two years in the church and I’m now in RCIA, thinking about joining the Catholic church. I love the Mass.
Go to an LDS service and you will hear about God (their version), Christ, and Joseph Smith. You would think if people are going to revere others along with Christ, those others would be Mary and Joseph (not Smith) and a few other mighty Christians. Catholic do that but keep the focus on God, Christ and us.
There are LDS who do consider themselves to be Christian but I’ve seen debates online from people who do not want to be considered Christian but instead Mormon. They say they don’t drink alcohol, don’t smoke, have high morals, so they are not Christians, they are Mormons! I suspect more LDS believe this than admit to it.
The views of the Catholics and Protestants of Mary is very different from the LDS version. I never realized it till I started going to Mass, but the LDS view is disgusting.
No, the LDS are not “Christian.” They are a “Corrupt Christian Group.”
Catholic and Protestant - Christian.
LDS - Corrupt Christian Quasi Cult.
Go to an LDS service and you will hear about God (their version), Christ, and Joseph Smith. You would think if people are going to revere others along with Christ, those others would be Mary and Joseph (not Smith) and a few other mighty Christians. Catholic do that but keep the focus on God, Christ and us.
There are LDS who do consider themselves to be Christian but I’ve seen debates online from people who do not want to be considered Christian but instead Mormon. They say they don’t drink alcohol, don’t smoke, have high morals, so they are not Christians, they are Mormons! I suspect more LDS believe this than admit to it.
The views of the Catholics and Protestants of Mary is very different from the LDS version. I never realized it till I started going to Mass, but the LDS view is disgusting.
No, the LDS are not “Christian.” They are a “Corrupt Christian Group.”
Catholic and Protestant - Christian.
LDS - Corrupt Christian Quasi Cult.
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Todd520
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Mary and Joesph would get serious air time in LDS and Protestant churchs, if there was a book of Mary or Joseph.
In my experience, LDS talk about the figures in the BoM much more than they do JS
Their response may be a backlash from feeling insulted, when people clearly imply they are un-christian. Personally I think Christian is a good high level descriptor for all who profess to follow Christ. This does not prevent them from proudly calling themselves a Catholic or a Mormon, to articulate the specifics (like you pointed out).
The worst definition I’ve seen was from an EV who said only those who were regenerate can be called Christians. It sounds nice but not very usefully, since only God knows who qualifies
I find your comment highly insulting and insist on a CFR (call for reference).
I’ve never read nor heard an LDS demean or insult Mary so call you on your slander.
You should be honest and just call all non Catholics heretical Christians.
Isn’t it true that if you are heretical, then you are a heretic. In for a penny, in for a pound so to speak
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TikiTokiguy
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(call for reference).
I’ve never read nor heard an LDS demean or insult Mary so call you on your slander.
exmormon.org/mormon/mormon385.htm
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Todd520
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Well Jharek, I urge you to show initiative
collaborate iwth your Protestant brothers and agree on a proper definition for Christian
then lobby Websters and other authorities to makie the change.
If you choose not to do this, then you should be content with using the term Catholic to define yourself.
collaborate iwth your Protestant brothers and agree on a proper definition for Christian
then lobby Websters and other authorities to makie the change.
If you choose not to do this, then you should be content with using the term Catholic to define yourself.
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Wisdom_Seeker
Guest
I don’t understand what makes my post so difficult to understand. Or how it implies that I am not real or have these beliefs.
It is my opinion from looking at the LDS religion from outside of the religion that it is not Christian. From inside they claim they are Christian and can not understand why others cannot see them for what they believe they are.
I simply stated my opinion based upon seeing things in a clearer light.
It is my opinion from looking at the LDS religion from outside of the religion that it is not Christian. From inside they claim they are Christian and can not understand why others cannot see them for what they believe they are.
I simply stated my opinion based upon seeing things in a clearer light.
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Todd520
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Your opinion is welcome, I just found your wording a bit strange. Even in this quoted post I am not clear. You show you are mormon but say THEY CLAIM instead of WE CLAIM. Since I can’t imagine any LDS not believing they are Christian, I must ask - **Are you looking from outside or inside? **
Also, I found it suspect another member said they know you well, but you had only posted 6 times here. Normally we get to know people by their works, and you are a babe here.
I am curious of the definiton of Christian you ascribe to?
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Wisdom_Seeker
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While I am active LDS, my views are from outside as I have a new perspective about my cultural identity. Perhaps people know me from other discussion boards where I use similar identities.
They claim they are Christian, I did too at one time. I now look at what their version of Christianity is, as being very much convoluted, because it contains things such as Temple ordinances as part of the mix.
Hope that clears it up. Most of the other discussion boards are just too one-sided and I have come back here for another perspective. I know and love many LDS members and non-members alike. I seek wisdom in being able to discuss dificult things with both of them and that is why I come to places like this.
They claim they are Christian, I did too at one time. I now look at what their version of Christianity is, as being very much convoluted, because it contains things such as Temple ordinances as part of the mix.
Hope that clears it up. Most of the other discussion boards are just too one-sided and I have come back here for another perspective. I know and love many LDS members and non-members alike. I seek wisdom in being able to discuss dificult things with both of them and that is why I come to places like this.
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LowKey
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Are you a mormon convert? Because from your posts in this thread you seem to not understand some very basic mormon doctrine. For example that Mary was the mother of Jesus and God was the father in the very literal sense of the word father.
I am a seventh generation mormon and I can confrim what the other poster said, mormons have claimed being mormons and not christians. It’s rare these days, very common in the first hundred years or so of the religion, but nowadays with the church mainstreaming and all it is unusual for a mormon to say that they are mormon rather than christian. Unusual, but I have heard people say it in my admitedly kind of long lifetime.
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Todd520
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Shame on you for perpetuating falsehoods about your former church members.
It is not in scripture nor doctrine the slander you stated, and purport to currently believe.
To be very clear, LDS teach:
- Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost and conceived
- God the father was the father of Jesus, and he accomplished this through the Holy Ghost
- There is no information in any scripture on how this was accomplished, so there is no church opinion. Don’t the Catholics also consider how this happened as a ‘Mystery’?
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Wisdom_Seeker
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I have heard young man claim that he read the Book of Mormon because he was Mormon and did not read the Bible because he was not Christian. Yes I have heard this, and I replied “You may be Mormon, but you also believe in Jesus and so you are probably Christian also.” I also explained to this young man that the Bible was just as important to read as the Book of Mormon.
However, the parents of this young man have probably never encouraged this young man to read the Bible at any time in his life. I am fairly certain that he wakes up well before going to school and reads the Book of Mormon every morning, but the Bible is never brought up.
However, the parents of this young man have probably never encouraged this young man to read the Bible at any time in his life. I am fairly certain that he wakes up well before going to school and reads the Book of Mormon every morning, but the Bible is never brought up.
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Todd520
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hi lowkey,Are you a mormon convert? Because from your posts in this thread you seem to not understand some very basic mormon doctrine. For example that Mary was the mother of Jesus and God was the father in the very literal sense of the word father.
I am a seventh generation mormon and I can confrim what the other poster said, mormons have claimed being mormons and not christians. It’s rare these days, very common in the first hundred years or so of the religion, but nowadays with the church mainstreaming and all it is unusual for a mormon to say that they are mormon rather than christian. Unusual, but I have heard people say it in my admitedly kind of long lifetime.
The number of generations in any faith has no real bearing on proper knowledge of said faith.
Though I can see it giving a cultural perspective not shared by converts.
I say this from my experience as a multi-generation Catholic.
I believe all my comments are in line with teachings, but I welcome corrections where I am wrong.
In another post I had already confirmed God the father was the father.
If you are reading sex into the equation, then it is your imagination and not scripture.
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TikiTokiguy
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So Todd, state what you believe. What do you believe? How was Jesus put into the body of Mary? Do you believe any sx was involved? Do you believe any celestial sx was involvedly? Do you believe any s*x was involved that us humans can not comprehend? Yes or no?
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LowKey
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I didn’t mean to imply that converts can’t possibly know as much as a multigenrational mormon on a particular topic, but overall, I have to disagree. There are times when you just don’t. Let me give you a few examples as to why:
Take the example of people are debating whether or not mormon doctrine or culture has always been anti-cross the way it is today. Since my mormon gggreatgrandmother wore a cross her entire life, and since she would sit on Brigham Young’s lap as a young girl when he would stay at their home wearing the cross and was his “favorite” I have a rather distinct knowledge that I know only from being a multigenerational mormon about how the anti-cross attitudes of mormonism in the late 1800’s and early 20th century changed and now differ from those same beelifs in todays chuch 1870 - wearing a cross is normal - today - mormons would look very strangly at a fellow ward member wearing a cross to church.
Since I have multiple greatgrandparents who continued to practice polygamy in the mainstream LDS church well into the 20th century, I have more knowledge than the average mormon who thinks that polygamy was discontinued in 1890.
Today mormons are in a mainstreaming process where embarrasing bits of doctrine are no longer being emphasized. Your belief that god is the father but not the BIOLOGICAL father is a perfect example of that. I was taught that in primary, sunday school seminary, BYU religion classes and by my parents and grandparents growing up that God was the biological father of Jesus. Since you are a convert you do not share all these additional sources of knowledge about mormon doctrine.
I have at many books on my bookshelves that have references to god being the very literal biological father of Jesus. Mormon Doctrine, The Promised Messiah, The Mortal Messiah, Jesus the Christ to name some off the top of my head.
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Todd520
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Again, you are imagining things that ARE NOT IN SCRIPTURE for either LDS or Catholics. We both consider how it happend to be a Mystery.
You are free to imagine what you will, just don’t call it an LDS teaching (or Catholic for that matter)
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LowKey
Guest
It is about LDS teaching, something that I and millions of other mormons were taught. The fact that you were never taught it as a convert does not mean the rest of us were never taught it. It is an LDS teaching. You have been provided multple references which you refuse to consider and multiple testimonies from real life mormons that it was taught to them personally.
To a mormon it is most decidedly NOT a mystery how Jesus was born nor who his father was, an exhalted man with a body of flesh bone named Elohim.
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Todd520
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lowkey,
I think we are crosstalking, so let me repeat a few things
I agreed already that your multi generation pedegree can give you a rich cultural perspective that a convert lacks.
Your examples were great. You will find I have not made assertations on past cultural practices.
I’ve already agreed that God is the father. If I were to imagine what happened, I mught think of a modern fertilization proceture to simplify how the Holy Ghost accomplished the task, BUT I WOULD BE LYING if I claimed I knew how it really happened.
Are you a Catholic?
And if so, how can you tolerate the Catholics calling this act a Mystery?
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TikiTokiguy
Guest
LDS us the “imagine” word a lot when they defend their radical believes like this issue and polygamy. This is one of their tools to defend themselves. Basically they take your solid evidence and just completely discount it make the one with the evidence as the crazy one.
Todd, you answered my questions without really answering it. Protecting your pearls from the swine?
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