Is Mormonism A Christian Religion?

[Todd520]

LDS us the “imagine” word a lot when they defend their radical believes like this issue and polygamy. This is one of their tools to defend themselves. Basically they take your solid evidence and just completely discount it make the one with the evidence as the crazy one.

Todd, you answered my questions without really answering it. Protecting your pearls from the swine?

Tiki, please support your claims or stop insulting my faith.

The last time I asked you for references, you failed to provide anything credible.

 

[LowKey]

You do have a point that mormon doctrines and practices change (which defies understanding since mormonism is the only church on earth with direct communication from God, why does he contradict himself and change his mind?) Adam used to be the God of this Earth but he no longer is. Blacks used to be unworthy to be married for eternity or to hold the priesthood, now they can, There used to be a trinity, but now there isn’t. etc etc. But I should point out the fact that Jesus was the biological son of God is NOT something that has changed just de-emphasized. It is still LDS doctrine. Your point remains valid, of course, whether it’s changed or just de-emphasized, you have mormons going around proclaiming false things about the mormon church and non-mormons who know more about mormonism than mormons.

 

[LowKey]

lowkey,
I think we are crosstalking, so let me repeat a few things

I agreed already that your multi generation pedegree can give you a rich cultural perspective that a convert lacks.
Your examples were great. You will find I have not made assertations on past cultural practices.

I’ve already agreed that God is the father. If I were to imagine what happened, I mught think of a modern fertilization proceture to simplify how the Holy Ghost accomplished the task, BUT I WOULD BE LYING if I claimed I knew how it really happened.

Are you a Catholic?
And if so, how can you tolerate the Catholics calling this act a Mystery?

Now you are coming close to, if not past, heresy level 3.

The holy ghost was not involved in the siring of Jesus (according to mormmon theology.) The holy ghost prepared mary so that she could be in the presence of god. So that God could go to her and begat Jesus with her in a very literal sense. (I’m trying to be frank but still respectful I’m new here but I’m pretty sure explicitly sexual discussions are against the rules on a catholic web-site so I said begat - but it was done, according to mormon doctrine - the same way we are all born. And its not a mystery if you have kids like I do)

No I am not a Catholic. I am more familiar than most non-Catholics about Catholicism perhaps, but that’s not saying much lol.

 

[LowKey]

Tiki, please support your claims or stop insulting my faith.

The last time I asked you for references, you failed to provide anything credible.

EVERYTHING he provided you was both credible and accurate. You calling quotes from mormon prophets not credible moves you to an even higher level of heresy.

 

[LowKey]

EVERYTHING he provided you was both credible and accurate. You calling quotes from mormon prophets not credible moves you to an even higher level of heresy.

This book is on my bookshelf, my father recently called me to ask to borrow my copy to prepare for a talk in Sacrament Meeting because he could not use find his copy.

“Christ was Begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.547).

Ezra Taft Benson was a recent LDS prophet who died about 25 years ago:

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7).

And I cannot claim to have a specific recollection of this very lesson, but I had family home evening with my family growing up each week (including 1972) and I was taught this:

Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father …Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body" (Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, Joseph F. Smith, pp.125,126).

I read this book in the weeks before going on my mission:

“There is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord’s coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is just that simple” (The Promised Messiah, pg.468).

And if God the Eternal Father is not the real Father of Jesus Christ, then are we in confusion; then is he not in reality the Son of God. But we declare that he is the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. Mary told the story most beautifully when she said that an angel of the Lord came to her and told her that she had found favor in the sight of God, and had come to be worthy of the fulfilment of the promises heretofore made, to become the virgin mother of the Redeemer of the world. She afterwards, referring to the event, said: “God hath done wonderful things unto me.” “And the Holy Ghost came upon her,” is the story, “and she came into the presence of the highest.” No man or woman can live in mortality and survive the presence of the Highest except by the sustaining power of the Holy Ghost. So it came upon her to prepare her for admittance into the divine presence, and the power of the Highest, who is the Father, was present, and overshadowed her, and the holy Child that was born of her was called the Son of God. (Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah, p.472 - p.473)

And this is from one of the few books missionaries are allowed to read on their mission:

Their testimony is that Mary’s son is God’s Son; that he was conceived and begotten in the normal way; that he took upon himself mortality by the natural birth processes; that he inherited the power of mortality from his mother and the power of immortality from his Father—in consequence of all of which he was able to work out the infinite and eternal atonement. This is their testimony as to his generation and mission. (James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, Ch.5, p.43)

"For Latter-day Saints, the paternity of Jesus is not obscure. He was the literal, biological son of an immortal, tangible Father and Mary, a mortal woman (see Virgin Birth). Jesus is the only person born who deserves the title “the Only Begotten Son of God” (John 3:16; Benson, p. 3; see Jesus Christ: Only Begotten in the Flesh). He was not the son of the Holy Ghost; it was only through the Holy Ghost that the power of the Highest overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:35; 1 Ne. 11:19). (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.2, Jesus Christ, Fatherhood And Sonship)

 

[Todd520]

Now you are coming close to, if not past, heresy level 3.

The holy ghost was not involved in the siring of Jesus (according to mormmon theology.) The holy ghost prepared mary so that she could be in the presence of god. So that God could go to her and begat Jesus with her in a very literal sense. (I’m trying to be frank but still respectful I’m new here but I’m pretty sure explicitly sexual discussions are against the rules on a catholic web-site so I said begat - but it was done, according to mormon doctrine - the same way we are all born. And its not a mystery if you have kids like I do)

No I am not a Catholic. I am more familiar than most non-Catholics about Catholicism perhaps, but that’s not saying much lol.

lowkey

Here is scripture confirming Mary, mother of Jesus Christ, was a virgin at the time of Jesus’ birth.

• In the Old Testament, Isaiah foretold this circumstance (Isaiah 7:14),
• In the BoM, the prophet Nephi foresaw the virgin birth. He described Mary as “a virgin, most beautiful and fair” and “mother of the son of God, after the manner of the flesh” (1 Ne. 11:15, 18).
• Also in the BoM, Alma declared that Christ “shall be born of Mary…a virgin…who shall…conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God” (Alma 7:10).

Please provide references if you disagree.

 

[Todd520]

lowkey

Here is scripture confirming Mary, mother of Jesus Christ, was a virgin at the time of Jesus’ birth.

• In the Old Testament, Isaiah foretold this circumstance (Isaiah 7:14),
• In the BoM, the prophet Nephi foresaw the virgin birth. He described Mary as “a virgin, most beautiful and fair” and “mother of the son of God, after the manner of the flesh” (1 Ne. 11:15, 18).
• Also in the BoM, Alma declared that Christ “shall be born of Mary…a virgin…who shall…conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God” (Alma 7:10).

Please provide references if you disagree.

I’m sorry to break this too you lowkey but
Scripture always trumps what was some guy said at some meeting,
even if he was the president.

Your ability to quote mine and post juicy quotes out of context does not change doctrine.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’m sorry to break this too you lowkey but
Scripture always trumps what was some guy said at some meeting,
even if he was the president.

Your ability to quote mine and post juicy quotes out of context does not change doctrine.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Todd520]

Are you sure about that?

**rebecca, you appear to be stalking my posts. **
You come in and post a snide or belittling comment
But, you don’t contribute to the discussion.

example above, if you disagreed with me, you should articulate and back up your position

 

[Jerusha]

you should articulate and back up your position

Why should we? We see a pattern emerging, common among Mormon apologists. It has all been covered before. Every time we come up with counters to your assertions, quoting book, author, chapter, and page, you simply deny it. Your brand of Mormonism is constantly changing. Which is OK, since Mormonism is constantly changing, but you deny even that. So why try?

 

[Todd520]

Why should we? We see a pattern emerging, common among Mormon apologists. It has all been covered before. Every time we come up with counters to your assertions, quoting book, author, chapter, and page, you simply deny it. Your brand of Mormonism is constantly changing. Which is OK, since Mormonism is constantly changing, but you deny even that. So why try?

I can read two possible things from you decision not to support your assertations.

1. you are sick and tired of apologetics. (I can understand and thus suggest you to take a break)
2. your style is to hit and run, no need to actually support your statements as truth. Make it up as you go? Or maybe just cut and paste from the most interesting site?

 

[Jerusha]

I can read two possible things from you decision not to support your assertations.

1. you are sick and tired of apologetics. (I can understand and thus suggest you to take a break)
   Most definitely. It gets tiresome.
2. your style is to hit and run, no need to actually support your statements as truth. Make it up as you go? Or maybe just cut and paste from the most interesting site?

given the past six years, and writing 600 pages on the subject, which includes every reasonable and logical refutation of Mormonism available, I am just sick and tired of looking up sources. And I am certainly not going to go searching through materials I have already read to find picky little details, for silly internet postings.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

There’s really not much more to say. There is tons of evidence against the church and even some members of the church admit to this. You can find bad history is most churches, including the Catholic church.

The thing I detest now about the church - singles. What about all the single women and men on this earth? What about those who do not want to get married or have been once but never again? In LDS views they are incomplete in God’s plans. That viewpoint is disgusting and wrong. I like how the General Authorities, when talking about marriage at a General Conference, will from time to time say those that can’t get married in this life will be taken care of in the next. They don’t go into detail though about the singles in their church and world. I know a certain LDS politician called singles in a singles ward a bunch of losers. Really sad an adult man would do something so low. Religion and Faith are here to give people hope, comfort, and happiness. Not to put people down.

 

[RebeccaJ]

**rebecca, you appear to be stalking my posts. **
You come in and post a snide or belittling comment
But, you don’t contribute to the discussion.

example above, if you disagreed with me, you should articulate and back up your position

Feeling paranoid?

I ask are you sure because certainly, mormon “prophets” don’t think what they say to you is less important than scripture. You can research for yourself. Your new religion teaches that its so-called prophets trump scripture.

But, that isn’t what you want to believe, so you’ll deny it.

Essentially, you are following in the steps of the founders of Mormonism…firing up your own religion, and taking on the stance of online Mormon apologetics. All that is going to do is turn you into a liar, and the first person you’ll be lying to is yourself.

It is unfortunate, that is what I think.

 

[TracyR]

All I can say is watch this:
sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-the-book-of-mormon/
and you decide.
Personally I would say NO. It is not. The Mormons see their bible as the book above the Holy Bible. There is no truth or merit to what their founder John Smith wrote. There is no solid archeological evidence that any of it ever happened or any of the people mentioned ever existed that are written in the book of Mormon. Its basically religious fiction.

To me its a faith(cult) if you will trying to hide behind ,and make themselves look Christian. But that is my two cents.

 

[RebeccaJ]

given the past six years, and writing 600 pages on the subject, which includes every reasonable and logical refutation of Mormonism available, I am just sick and tired of looking up sources. And I am certainly not going to go searching through materials I have already read to find picky little details, for silly internet postings.

Welcome back Jerusha!

It has become tiresome. I don’t have the energy or the interest to post the same sources over and over. The newbie Mormon can go look things up for himself, but he won’t look for primary sources. FAIR will spoon feed the “all is well” lie.

 

[Javl]

Todd:

Again I repeat that you keep missing the boat. If you aren’t careful you are going to fall into that morass of Mormonism and you will drown in that sea of myths, lies, and fantasy. I suggest that you thoroughly research the history and “theology” of Mormonism. Just don’t scan over what you think willl back up your “beliefs”, delve into it seriously and deeply as the majority of Catholic converts and reverts have done with the Catholic faith. Then, and only then, you can make your decision as to where the truth is.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom HaMeshiach

 

[stormy99]

The question came up on Mitt Romney during the 2008 primaries and now concerning Glenn Beck- is Mormonism a Christian religion?

The question (or attacks) seemed to be raised primarily by Evangelicals. I am far from an expert on LDS, but I am familiar with the differences on the scriptures, the different levels of heaven and the rather bizarre “revelations” given to Joseph Smith while looking inside his hat. None of this relates even remotely to Catholicism or Protestantism. On the other hand, the only Mormons I know anything about, Romney and Beck, devoutly believe in Jesus and recognize that salvation comes from Jesus’ death on the cross.

In short, does the Catholic Church consider Mormonism to be a Christian religion?

Thanks in advance for any replies

Jerry

**No it is not…The Catholic Church does not recognize a Mormon baptism as Christian. There are big differences…between the two religions…

stormy**

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Personally, I don’t think so…but I don’t make that widely known to folks around me. MY Opinion, anyway. I don’t want to have my head handed back to me—like what happened when Al Sharpton denied Mormonism was Christian during the 2008 Election. Ended up on Glenn Beck’s Program backtracking and “clarifying” Himself all over the Place.
No, thank you.

 

[Laura15]

**No it is not…The Catholic Church does not recognize a Mormon baptism as Christian. There are big differences…between the two religions…

stormy**

No it is not! Why would the Catholic Church even think such of thing.
Of course not. Mormons think Lucifer is Jesus Christ’s brother and they believe they will become gods themselves.