Is Mormonism a Polytheistic religion?

[Jim_Dandy]

Yes I do use universalis but also the podcast from divineoffice.org

When I first tried to leave the LDS I landed in an Episcopal parish (in SLC no less) whose rector is a former Catholic priest. It’s there that I learned contemplative prayer. Every other week we had a half hour of contemplative prayer followed by a book discussion (the one we were doing when I was attending was Into the Silent Land by Martin Laird) and then to end we prayed Compline.

Blessings,

Charles

So you’re an escapee from Episcopalianism also! That’s where Catholic priests go who get into trouble with their bishop.

It gives me joy to know you, even if by internet.

God be with you, Jim Dandy

 

[PaulDupre]

A) Genesis 1: 26¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Does God not say “Let US make man in OUR image”? Who is “us”? Who is “our”? Who exactly is hanging out with God here?

Brother John,

God is a trinity of three persons. It is God’s nature to exist as a trinity of three persons - Father Son and Holy Spirit. That is the “us” and the “our”.

A man is one being in one person - that is human nature.

A dog is one being in zero persons - that is animal nature.

God is one being in three persons - that is God’s nature.

There is only one God. He is completely unique. No one else has a God nature. There was no God before God, and there will never be another God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6; 45:5-6; 45:21; 46:9)

Either you believe the bible or you don’t. Mormons don’t.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Jim_Dandy]

A) Genesis 1: 26 ¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Does God not say “Let US make man in OUR image”? Who is “us”? Who is “our”? Who exactly is hanging out with God here?

The remainder of Brother John’s post truncated by JimD.

There is not one Jew or Christian – Catholic or Protestant – who has ever read multiple gods into the Bible. Judaism is 4,000 years old, Catholicism is 2,000 years old. Monotheism – belief in one God – has prevailed all that time. .

This 19th century misinterpretation came directly from Joseph Smith, whose occupation was glass looker according to court records in Bainbridge, NY, March 20, 1826, where he was convicted of fraud for offering to find money on people’s property by looking through a magic peepstone in his hat – for a price, of course.

A scripture scholar, Joseph was not!

Jim Dandy

 

[TheExorcist]

So you’re an escapee from Episcopalianism also! That’s where Catholic priests go who get into trouble with their bishop.

It gives me joy to know you, even if by internet.

God be with you, Jim Dandy

Yes it’s been an interesting and unpredictable (but mostly enjoyable ride)

It was in the Episcopal Church that I learned to love liturgy and actually became somewhat of a liturgy nerd.

Also I was interested to see the thread on here about ordaining female priests bc in our Episcopal parish in SLC we had an asst rector/priest who is female, the Episcopal Bishop of Utah (at the time) was female and of course you know the presiding Bishop of the EC of the USA is also female.

Sorry about the rambling aside. I always enjoy your posts and feel very edified and instructed by them

Blessings

Charles

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Yes it’s been an interesting and unpredictable (but mostly enjoyable ride)

It was in the Episcopal Church that I learned to love liturgy and actually became somewhat of a liturgy nerd.

Also I was interested to see the thread on here about ordaining female priests bc in our Episcopal parish in SLC we had an asst rector/priest who is female, the Episcopal Bishop of Utah (at the time) was female and of course you know the presiding Bishop of the EC of the USA is also female.

Sorry about the rambling aside. I always enjoy your posts and feel very edified and instructed by them

Blessings

Charles

:tiphat: THANK YOU!. Have you experienced the TLM (Latin Mass)? A Solemn High Mass leaves me in tears.

 

[KathleenGee]

Back to gods…It says in Genesis…when in times past we believed in many gods…the Jews, the chosen people of God, did grow in enlightenment to believe in one God. There were some other religious people who were also monolithic.

In some ways, there is still mystery as to why God then chose the Jews to be the chosen people, monotheistic, when likewise there were some other religions also believing in one god.

Catholicism is about witness to Christ in the Oral Tradition through His apostles…and St. Peter in his 2nd letter , 2 warns us not to interpret Scripture. God choses souls to become His ministers.

All the apostles were sent out into the world in that time to found churches. You see, they had the Holy Spirit, they were called to preach the Good News, repentance, given the power to forgive sins in Jesus’ name and to heal. This presence of the Apostles remains in the Catholic/Orthodox Churches.

The Roman Catholic Church had primacy at the very beginning through St. Peter sent there by Holy Spirit. Rome was wealthy, strong and helped in the funding and formation of the churches in the ancient Christian world. In time, although the churches had their own heads and jurisdictions, if there was disputes, they were finalized in Rome.

Our ancient liturgies in Rome and elsewhere are documented and go back to 100 AD, less than 70 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. The apostles, who witnessed the majesty of Jesus Christ, were also given the power to appoint successors. The Catholic papal succession has never been broken, although its parameters in flux because of the circumstances of times.

Many, many martyrs who received the Eucharist pray for us now that we also persevere in our faith. We have the ancient catacombs of Rome, and throughout the ancient Christian world, churches, artifacts, documents, local histories, tombs of apostles and saints.

Jesus Christ is the Temple…this is part of our liturgical readings for this great feast of the Transfiguration…the beginning of Christ’s divine ministry.

The Church does not take out bits and parts of Sacred Scripture, divorcing people from the events in which they lived and the intent and purpose for which they lived…every epic of time in the Bible had a purpose, all leading up to Christ and founding His church, the New Jerusalem.

So we do not look at Scripture in phrases that some use to further divorce from each other using the SAcred Word of God meant to give us life, not separation and condemnation.

That is the problem with Mormon essentially is that it is divorced from Christianity, labels it, misconstrues it to its members.

We look at Scripture from the intent of its whole, the history of faith of the Jews, and then Christ’s Church that begins at Pentecost. St John said there would never be enough books written about Christ.

The Catholic/Orthodox Church is the event that continues on past the book of the Bible…the history of living people glorifying God through Christ.

It is far better, more accurate and secure to found your faith on Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit rather than one that condemns, misconstrues or cannot grasp our faith.

Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. You do not need a hat, spectacles or Egyptian scrolls instructing how to bury the dead, or at least a controversial single man to reinterpret Christianity.

Think of the ancient Christians at Mass underground in Rome, worshipping and entering into the light of Christ among the tombs of the pagan dead…quite a powerful contrast.

We never depend on just one human being to completely point another way…Jesus picked 12 apostles. Their faith so fresh, on fire, many, many people converting…

There was no apostasy at the beginning. That is a falsehood.

So many people, when they finally recognize our Church as the truth, find themselves finally at home.

You are here…Christ is calling you home…

 

[TheExorcist]

:tiphat: THANK YOU!. Have you experienced the TLM (Latin Mass)? A Solemn High Mass leaves me in tears.

Yes (well, and no). Traditional Latin Mass yes but it was Low Mass at that parish that day (the 11:30am Sunday service is Low Mass, I think they do a High Mass earlier in the morning. [Whats the difference between High Mass and Solemn High Mass?])

This was at the parish closest to my house which is an FSSP parish. We have two other parishes not too much farther away, one traditional-ish and the other (seemingly) quite contemporary. I have not been to Mass at the contemporary parish yet.

I found the TLM a bit confusing and frustrating at first because I could not follow along in the missalette. The only words I could make out were “Dominus Vobiscum” and “Oremus” because the priest actually turns briefly to speak those. I think with a bit of practice there and help from priests and parishioners its an experience I could really learn to enjoy!

 

[PaulDupre]

:tiphat: THANK YOU!. Have you experienced the TLM (Latin Mass)? A Solemn High Mass leaves me in tears.

When I was a little kid (@ 1959), the TLM was called “Ten O’Clock Mass” at St. Bernard’s Parish, Concord, MA. Our family went every Sunday. I wish I could have appreciated it back then.

Paul

 

[RebeccaJ]

Dear Rebecca -

I have no desire to fool anyone, including myself.

A) Genesis 1: 26¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Does God not say “Let US make man in OUR image”? Who is “us”? Who is “our”? Who exactly is hanging out with God here?

Frankly, I think you are confused, as I was once confused. There is “God” - God the Father and there is “God”, Jesus. Jesus became like God, and thus became “a” God. Satan, Jesus’ brother, did not. Some will become like God and thus “a” God, and others will not. And God the Father will ALWAYS preside over all.

When we read Genesis “God” is Jesus. Jesus created the world, as we are told in Hebrews -

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

So, it seems pretty clear - does it not - that Jesus created the world and is therefore “God” referenced in Genesis, however Hebrews makes it clear that “God” The Father, sent Jesus to create this world.

By technical definition, the Bible itself has just defined two Gods for us - the Father, and the Son.

The Father and the Son are not one in the same, though they act in concert, otherwise Jesus prayed to himself in Gethsemane.

“Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”

Beyond these two named instances, in the Bible, there are no other named gods ever mentioned anyplace else that I am aware of. But as I said, please show me reference, dear Rebecca, to the other gods you speak of and I will concede to you.

I will also add this -

God did not say “I am the Lord thy God. … I am the ONLY God.”

He said . . .

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

The Lord himself specifies that there are “other gods”. He does not say “there ARE no other gods” or “thou shalt recognize no other gods” - He says “thou shalt have no other gods before me”.

Now my wife and I have had debate about what this means. She says money, for example, is a god to some. I can see her point. But then there is also the command against idolatry. I believe that covers all things in the physical realm, such as money. When we are commanded to have “no other gods before me” I think we can take that literally.

All the best to you -

Well I’m glad to see you honestly accept that you are polytheist.

Of course, you are proof-texting, which is a hallmark of Mormonism, and not something I’m interested in.

 

[Telstar]

Here you go:
"It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."
It is not a mystery if one reads the Bible. I think the later passage is correct:

"And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature’s being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good."

For some people, it’s not easily understood. Either due to their lack of faith and trust in God’s goodness, or poor reading skills that make it so easy to misinterpret scripture, or just a lack of ability to grasp it. So many people these days think God must be evil to even allow it to exist. But, evil makes goodness shine much more brightly, as darkness makes a weak flashlight seem less dim. God uses it as a means to increase the graces that we may receive. That’s why Catholics leave the actual interpretation of Holy Scripture to those who have full authority, and the special gifts of the Holy Spirit, to do so. We don’t take any chances.

"Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart"
This is not presented in Genesis nor by Paul. It is counter to what is presented in the Genesis account of Adam and Eve. The Genesis account tells Eve’s specific motives, and Adam’s motives also, for partaking the forbidden fruit.

"In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Constituted in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully “divinized” by God in glory. Seduced by the devil, he wanted to “be like God”, but “without God, before God, and not in accordance with God”.
There is nothing in the Genesis account that indicates that Eve or Adam believed Satan’s temptation about being “like God”.

The word “divinized” is an interesting word for this thread along with the word “destined” but it becomes a tiring subject.

Genesis 3:[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of paradise, God hath commanded us that we should not eat; and that we should not touch it, lest perhaps we die. [4] And the serpent said to the woman:No, you shall not die the death. [5] For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.

[6] And the woman saw that the tree was good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold: and she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave to her husband who did eat. [7] And the eyes of them both were opened: and when they perceived themselves to be naked, they sewed together fig leaves, and made themselves aprons.Please, explain what other motives they had, based on that passage alone. The lure of their being able to do all that God could do, was by far their greatest motivation, whether you choose to believe it or not. Adam & Eve chose to believe what the serpent said, rather than obey God, even though they knew that God had created them out of love, along with everything else in paradise, including that miserable serpent that betrayed Him. They knew that He truly loved them, but their own curiosity about what the serpent told them of being ‘as gods’ sounded way too good to pass up. They were eagerly seduced by that thought. God would have given them the fruit to eat when He knew they were ready for it, but like a spoiled child that always wants to do things their way, they wanted that knowledge before they were prepared to handle it. Their impatience and lack of trust in God, caused all the evil of sin that we have in this world, today, and warped God’s perfect creation, making it ugly compared to the way it was made.

We’re all destined to be so fully immersed in God’s love, to actually fuse with Him. We begin by partaking in the Eucharist, here on earth, until we join with Him in Heaven. The Eucharist is the fruit that fuses us to His Divinity through Jesus. Man MUST eat this fruit. That’s man’s true destiny, and his means of sharing in it. Believe whatever you like, but you might want to reconsider your options. If you’re right, then man’s belief of creation has been wrong ever since it happened, because God lied to us from the beginning. Excuse me? Who should we believe, God or Joseph Smith?

"They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image"

The account says Adam said he was afraid “because I was naked”. The fear was not coming from a “distorted image”. We’re supposed to be able to figure out that by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they lost innocence and became aware about their bodies and so they hid because they didn’t want to be seen unclothed.

It says they only saw their nakedness as ‘evil’ after they ate the fruit. But, that’s not why they hid themselves from God. They hid because they were afraid of what He’d do when He found out that they disobeyed Him, by doing the one thing He’d specifically commanded them not to do. It was their own guilt and shame that made them hide. Their ‘distorted image’ of God, was shown in their thinking that He ever could have lied to them.

That same guilt causes those who ignore God’s True Word, and refuse to admit or repent of it, to hide themselves from God when they pass over the veil. That’s how they end up in hell. God doesn’t have to accuse them, their own conscience does as soon as they realize that they did evil by ignoring God, or by not recognizing Him at all. By then, it’s too late. They already lost their only chance.

 

[ParkerD]

To the general reader:

Readers of the New Testament are familiar that Satan tempted Jesus, and in so doing was mocking Him and tempting Him to use His power in an unrighteous way.

Satan mocks God’s plan while all the while rejecting it, scorning it, belittling it, and undermining it through deception.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Yes (well, and no). Traditional Latin Mass yes but it was Low Mass at that parish that day (the 11:30am Sunday service is Low Mass, I think they do a High Mass earlier in the morning. [Whats the difference between High Mass and Solemn High Mass?])

This was at the parish closest to my house which is an FSSP parish. We have two other parishes not too much farther away, one traditional-ish and the other (seemingly) quite contemporary. I have not been to Mass at the contemporary parish yet.

I found the TLM a bit confusing and frustrating at first because I could not follow along in the missalette. The only words I could make out were “Dominus Vobiscum” and “Oremus” because the priest actually turns briefly to speak those. I think with a bit of practice there and help from priests and parishioners its an experience I could really learn to enjoy!

Yes, the Latin Mass has to be learned, using an English/Latin missal. I found that just watching and listening, then reading the missal afterwards, was best for me during my learning phase. I couldn’t take my eyes off the altar. It’s like a ballet, a dance between God and the priest. I’ll send you a booklet explaining the TLM if you’ll trust me with an address. PM me.

Basically, Low Masses are said, High Masses are sung with a schola (choir).

Missa Privata (Private Mass)- a spoken Mass by a priest without a deacon and subdeacon

Missa Cantata (Sung High Mass)- a sung Mass (chanted by the Priest and choir) without a deacon and subdeacon.

Missa Solemnis (Solemn High Mass)- a sung Mass with deacon and subdeacon assisting the priest.

For a Low Mass, there are two candles on the altar. For a High Mass, there are six.

Then there is a Pontifical Mass, which is any Mass celebrated by a Bishop.

God be with you, Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

When I was a little kid (@ 1959), the TLM was called “Ten O’Clock Mass” at St. Bernard’s Parish, Concord, MA. Our family went every Sunday. I wish I could have appreciated it back then.

Paul

:sad_yes:

 

[catholic-rcia]

To the general reader:

Readers of the New Testament are familiar that Satan tempted Jesus, and in so doing was mocking Him and tempting Him to use His power in an unrighteous way.

Satan mocks God’s plan while all the while rejecting it, scorning it, belittling it, and undermining it through deception.

Here is how I see this deception. Teaching you that the Church Christ established in order to save a sinner like me went corrupt soon after Jesus himself established it.

Again the Catholic Church was not built to hold worthy people. It was built for those who know they are not and need help. This is where the road to Sainthood begins. With empty hands, nothing to give. The Catholic Church was not built on the fall of another Church. It was built because we are all fallen.

The apostasy that Joseph Smith claimed was a mocking of Christianity going against not only the Catholic Church but the Baptist Church, the Methodist Church, the Episcopalian Church etc… all of which hold the same belief in God as Trinity. For the last 2000 years.

We leave Him in search of our own glory, we fail miserably and know why we want to turn back to Him. We discover Him, the truth. Or we go on to achieve greatness only to wither on the vine, a vine that has already fallen to the ground years prior. Until you can come to God with nothing to offer, you will not be able to know Him as we Christians do. Not said from pride Parket to prove you wrong. I truly love you in Christ and want you to see this stuff.

Turn to Christ Jesus
Loves ya and is waiting

In Christ
Rich

 

[KathleenGee]

Sounds like a belief that is more based against Christianity than focusing on Christ and His life.

Christ of Mormonism is not the same. They should call him another name.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

To the general reader:

Readers of the New Testament are familiar that Satan tempted Jesus, and in so doing was mocking Him and tempting Him to use His power in an unrighteous way.

Satan mocks God’s plan while all the while rejecting it, scorning it, belittling it, and undermining it through deception.

I remind you, ParkerD, that the New Testament consists of 27 of the Catholic Church’s own writings, which she selected, collected, canonized and named the NT. Since you believe the CC was apostate three centuries before the NT existed, why do you accept it?

Jim Dandy

 

[TheExorcist]

I couldn’t take my eyes off the altar. It’s like a ballet, a dance between God and the priest.

I really got that impression about 10 mins in. I too could not take my eyes off the front, both the priest and altar servers (there were two). Is it customary for the NON presiding priest (if there are more than one up there) to give the homily, etc? The celebrant was the asst pastor and it was the pastor who gave the announcements, homily and English gospel reading. It was almost as if the asst pastor had to rest.

I’ll send you a booklet explaining the TLM if you’ll trust me with an address. PM me.

That would be MUCH appreciated. I will PM you.

For a Low Mass, there are two candles on the altar. For a High Mass, there are six.

This is how I knew it was a Low Mass. They had a general instruction missal (for lack of a better word) at the back to use during Mass.

I started a thread on this a while back. Maybe we can continue the discussion over there if need be

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=581050

 

[Telstar]

To the general reader:

Readers of the New Testament are familiar that Satan tempted Jesus, and in so doing was mocking Him and tempting Him to use His power in an unrighteous way.

Satan mocks God’s plan while all the while rejecting it, scorning it, belittling it, and undermining it through deception.

Yes, Satan tempted Jesus in the same way that he tempted Adam & Eve, and more. He wasn’t sure Who Jesus really was, but he knew that He was very powerful, and that He might be the True Son of God. God hid that knowledge from him for obvious reasons. He still tempted Him with everything he could think of, because he desperately wanted Jesus to bow down to him and submit to his pitiful power over this world. But, because Jesus* is* the Only Son of God, He immediately recognized Satan in every disguise he tried to use. Satan came to Him in many forms, including as an* angel of light*, but Jesus was never fooled for a second! He knew who it was that tempted Him, and He foiled him in every attempt that he made. Jesus was not gullible as Adam & Eve were. He created all of the angels, and He knows more than they could* ever* possibly know. He knew who Satan was* immediately!*

Adam & Eve were innocent little children that were completely unaware of who they were dealing with in that Garden. They could not understand or recognize the evil within him, but Jesus easily could. Satan mocked God in the Garden the same way that he mocks Him whenever he tempts any one of us to fall for his line of bull. He knew that Adam & Eve could never become gods, because he knows that only God has the power that he (Satan) promised to them, and he also knows that no one else can*** ever** *achieve that kind of power! Satan is the only one that has been a murderer and a liar from the beginning. Anyone that tries to tell us that God ever lied to us in any way, shape or form, is the real liar! GOD DOES NOT LIE!! There is no such thing as “lying for the lord”, unless your lord is the devil, himself!

The Gospel of John, Chapter 8:[36]If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. [37] I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. [38] I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do the things that you have seen with your father. [39] They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. [40] But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.

[41] You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. [42] Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: [43] Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. [44] You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. [45] But if I say the truth, you believe me not.

The Pharisees and Sadducee prided themselves in their great knowledge of the letter of the law, but they had absolutely no idea how to follow the Will of God and put that law into practice, because they didn’t have the love in their hearts for anyone but themselves. They were so focused on themselves, and what they could get out of the law, that they couldn’t recognize the Messiah when He was standing right in front of them. Without the love of the law, and what it stood for (God), they were just intellectual snobs that were blinded to the truth by their own narcissism, arrogance and pride. In their eyes, they could do nothing wrong, but in the Eyes of God, they could do nothing right. They damned themselves through their utter lack of the Love of God, even though they believed that they were the only ones that possessed it. They were wrong. Their father was Satan, the father of all who teach lies and hate.

 

[PaulDupre]

I remind you, ParkerD, that the New Testament consists of 27 of the Catholic Church’s own writings, which she selected, collected, canonized and named the NT. Since you believe the CC was apostate three centuries before the NT existed, why do you accept it?

Jim Dandy

The Mormons don’t really accept the bible.

The Mormon Church has always maintained that the Bible is hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy:

From The Book of Mormon:

1 Nephi 13:
24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

The above passage claims that the bible we have now is not the same bible written by the prophets and apostles. Many of the “plain and precious parts” were taken away by the “great and abominable Church”. Why? “that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.” (1 Ne:13:27)

Verse 29 states that those who believe the bible with the plain and precious parts deliberately removed by the great and abominable church stumble so that Satan has great power over them.

Continued…

 

[PaulDupre]

Bible corruption continued…

What do the modern LDS prophets and apostles say?

President Ezra Taft Benson wrote of

“the Bible, which passed through generations of copyists, translators and corrupt religionists who tampered with the text”
(Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg. 53).

Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., popular LDS author and son of the tenth president of the church, said

“The early ‘Apostate Fathers’ did not think it was wrong to tamper with inspired scripture. If any scripture seemed to endanger their viewpoint, it was altered, transplanted or completely removed from the Biblical text” (Religious Truths Defined, p.175).

Apostle Mark E. Peterson casts doubt on the reliability of the Bible and states forcefully that the corruption was intentional:

“Many insertions were made, some of them ‘slanted’ for selfish purposes, while at times deliberate falsifications and fabrications were perpetrated”
(As Translated Correctly, p.4).

“It is evident then that many of the ‘plain and precious’ things were omitted from the Bible by failure to choose all of the authentic books for inclusion, and by deliberate changes, deletions and forgeries …”
(As Translated Correctly, p.14).

The encyclopedia of Mormonism:

“Thus, the elements of mistranslation, incompleteness, and other errors weaken the Bible”
(Encyclopedia of Mormonism , Vol. 1, Bible).

Again we can see from this small sample of quotes how the conviction that the bible is corrupt and untrustworthy starts with The Book of Mormon (“the most correct book on earth” and “the keystone of our religion”) and continues to pervade Mormon thinking and writing throughout their history.

Grace to you all,
Paul