Is Mormonism a Polytheistic religion?

[PaulDupre]

Telstar, you should totally make this your new signature.

“Telstar, ‘whore of all the earth’.”

Thank you, Crdl2Grv! I will go to sleep chuckling tonight!

 

[alaindelong]

Actually, they believe that their “Heavenly Father” has many wives in heaven.

Wow Paul, thank you for sharing that! Mormons keep that very quiet. Notice how tony888 has become mute.
At the heart of mormonism is their claim of the Great Apostasy. Yet we know that Christ’s Church will aiways be there till the end of time. Christ told Peter “look not on your sins but the faith of your Church and the powers of hell will not prevail upon it. I am with you always until the end of time.” Therefore there is not one moment in salvation history where the Holy Spirit is not guiding His Church. So the Mormon claim is a lot of BS.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

If I were a Mormon, I would never post here.

And I have made my own points so please understand where I’m coming from.

So why would Mormons come here? They never seem to ask questions about us. I mean, not really. Wait, is it possible that they may get a convert or two?

After all, Isaiah Bennett, a Catholic priest became a Mormon. Of course, he left the church and got married and then became a Mormon. Or maybe there is another order about it. I don’t know but I have very little respect for a PRIEST who can leave the Church and go to a religion which has no foundation in the beginning with Christ. Really, did he not have a clue?

He spent a year or so, got the Temple recommend and then wrote a book. He kept the wife. And came back to the Church.

If I am being not very nice here, please forgive me. I have humility issues. (In that I am not as humble as often as I should be.)

Bennett entered the seminiary right out of high school. He was hospitalized with severe depression shortly before he left the Church and became a Mormon. His own family history is sad. He writes that after being bombarded by missionaries with arguments and Mormon literature, he eventually came to be attracted by the easy salvation and the purported family values. Bennett left the Church knowing that he was going to join the Mormons, got married to a long-time friend, and they became Mormon at the same time. They moved to Salt Lake City where he taught Mormonism for a year and a half at two colleges and an LDS institute of religion, They were repulsed by what they came to recognize as a fraud, left Salt Lake City, and returned to the Church on their knees. The Church, of course, being the good Mother that she is, welcomed them home.

It’s a sad story, and one that Bennett deeply regrets. But Karl Keating of Catholic Answers convinced him that he could do a huge service to the Church by writing about his experience. The result was Inside Mormonism, a book that reveals Mormon history, belief, and double-speak from the inside. It should convince Catholics and others of the fallacy of Mormonism. Every Christian should read it.

Jim Dandy

 

[KathleenGee]

Jim,

I like the Mormon people I met, but have stepped out of the circular discussions that don’t really reveal what Mormons actually believe, practice, or the hidden beliefs.

Likewise, it is also interesting how Catholics think it not wrong that Mormons accessed church documents without consent to potentially get new members after they are deceased.

I am trying now to pray more than ever for the Mormon people, and for conversion of heart of those who who are fraudulent Mormons, who have the power and control over their people. So much of the money goes to building these temples.

You can see the recent link on the Roman Mormon temple going up…there are some links given at the very end by a former Mormon that has a link from the Vatican saying what they were doing behind peoples’ back and as well as the nature of their activities has been gravely wrong, coinciding with the sentiments and convictions of the Jews, and then the following link, how the Mormons found a treasure trove of names of priests, nuns, and others going back 1,000 years to be used for their baptisms.

It is violating. The Mormon link shows a complete lack of self-reflection on their own presumption and wrong doing.

I think I will go retrieve it now. It is post 123, regarding the Mormon temple going up in Rome started by Ahimsa. It is also noted that the Vatican says just because the Mormons can no longer access our records, does not mean dialogue now has to stop…the Vatican will still continue to reach out to the Mormons through the Catholic Church based in Utah.

 

[SteveVH]

Why do you put such limitations on God?
Your logic is a false strawman that may help you feel smug, but does not represent LDS theology.

I put no limitations on God whatsoever. That is why I believe in one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who is eternal (no beginning and no end), omniscient (all knowing, from eternity), omnipresent, (everywhere at one time), omnipotent (all powerful, above every creature in the universe, who made everything from nothing). He is not co-eternal with matter, or other gods, or any other being; one, all knowing, all present, all powerful, eternal God.

Compare that to the Mormon God, who himself is dependent upon another for his existence, who did not create matter but rather was dependent upon it in order to fashion the creation we see; who shares his power and glory with other gods in the universe who rule over their respective worlds. You tell me, which of our God’s is more limited?

And I would agree that logic has nothing to do with Mormon theology. That is exactly what I was trying to point out. You cannot tell me that you believe in other gods who rule other worlds and then tell me that you are monotheistic. That is patently illogical. A straw man sets up a false premise. I have done no such thing. I have only taken your own words and drawn them out to their logical conclusion.

 

[SteveVH]

It sounds like you are describing a severe case of Cognitive Dissonance
You accept with Jews and Muslims that you do not meet their common definition, yet you turn around and tell yourself that you do meet it, when speaking amongst yourselfs or with LDS.

Christ revealed to the world the true nature of God. Neither the Jews nor the Muslims believe in Jesus Christ and therefore do not believe what he has revealed. That is their problem, not ours. They are reading an incomplete story. I don’t know of anyone who is trying to meet the “common definition” of God with the Jews or the Muslims, other than the fact that we all believe in only one God. Even on this most basic of principals, the LDS depart from all three monotheistic religions.

We do say we are Christian based on the common definitions found in the dictionary, and as the ECF would have seen christianity (before Nicea)

You are actually going to use the ECF’s to defend your position? Please give me one quote from the ECF’s that promotes a uniquely Mormon doctrine or belief.

There are real and siginficant differences between the RCC and LDS, so I’m astounded that people here don’t focus on the real differences and instead must attack and deny where there is some overalap. I’m truely puzzled by this behavior. Is it driven by fear?

Yes, we are all shaking in our boots with fear. The only overlap I can see between the CC and the LDS is that we believe in a power higher than us. Other than that, I see nothing in common.

 

[Miriam1947]

Bennett entered the seminiary right out of high school. He was hospitalized with severe depression shortly before he left the Church and became a Mormon. His own family history is sad. He writes that after being bombarded by missionaries with arguments and Mormon literature, he eventually came to be attracted by the easy salvation and the purported family values. Bennett left the Church knowing that he was going to join the Mormons, got married to a long-time friend, and they became Mormon at the same time. They moved to Salt Lake City where he taught Mormonism for a year and a half at two colleges and an LDS institute of religion, They were repulsed by what they came to recognize as a fraud, left Salt Lake City, and returned to the Church on their knees. The Church, of course, being the good Mother that she is, welcomed them home.

It’s a sad story, and one that Bennett deeply regrets. But Karl Keating of Catholic Answers convinced him that he could do a huge service to the Church by writing about his experience. The result was Inside Mormonism, a book that reveals Mormon history, belief, and double-speak from the inside. It should convince Catholics and others of the fallacy of Mormonism. Every Christian should read it.

Jim Dandy

Where do I find the history of Bennett? It’s because of what I thought I knew that I would never buy the book. Since I doubted his sincerity I didn’t want to fill any pockets.

I sincerely apologize and ask forgiveness for my nastiness.

 

[ParkerD]

If I were a Mormon, I would never post here.

And I have made my own points so please understand where I’m coming from.

So why would Mormons come here? They never seem to ask questions about us. I mean, not really. Wait, is it possible that they may get a convert or two?

After all, Isaiah Bennett, a Catholic priest became a Mormon. Of course, he left the church and got married and then became a Mormon. Or maybe there is another order about it. I don’t know but I have very little respect for a PRIEST who can leave the Church and go to a religion which has no foundation in the beginning with Christ. Really, did he not have a clue?

He spent a year or so, got the Temple recommend and then wrote a book. He kept the wife. And came back to the Church.

If I am being not very nice here, please forgive me. I have humility issues. (In that I am not as humble as often as I should be.)

Hi, Miriam,

I have posted here for a few reasons–so that a few discerning people could hopefully see a different perspective than what people such as Isaiah Bennett or a few other past members (whose self-sifting was a good thing for them personally) present as incorrect “facts”, which are “accepted” by so many other people who add it to their set of what corresponds with what they want to believe about people they otherwise know very little about, showing their human nature which is OK.

Also, finding that I could defend every point brought up, straight from the Bible (though not according to the one I was writing to), has helped me greatly in treasuring the Bible even more-so through using its passages as the set of “pearls of great price” that contain doctrinal purity throughout, even despite attempts made to go off on tangents such as the many tangents created by writers whose words come up here from the distant past.

So it has been a personal benefit, and a learning experience.

I have gained a greater insight about a group of people, which is always a good thing to do for understanding them if one has the time.

Some of the fruits could be twenty to fifty years down the road, for myself as I may meet someone and understand more about where they’re coming from, or another might remember something they read here from a comment that may uplift them at some point in their life (at least one can hope–who knows?).

Wishing you and all, a good day.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Where do I find the history of Bennett? It’s because of what I thought I knew that I would never buy the book. Since I doubted his sincerity I didn’t want to fill any pockets.

I sincerely apologize and ask forgiveness for my nastiness.

Hi, Miriam of the beautiful name,

No apology necessary. You just didn’t have all the information.

The introduction to Inside Mormonism briefly tells Bennett’s story. He makes no excuses. He mentions his depression, but doesn’t place the blame on anything or anyone except himself.

Inside Mormonism was published by Catholic Answers. It was Karl Keating, founder of Catholic Answers, who suggested to him that he write his story. There are a number of Bennett articles on the Internet. I read that he wrote Inside Mormonism as a penance, but I can’t remember where. Just google his name.

Here’s a link to the book (scroll down):

shop.catholic.com/home.php?cat=21

Be at peace, my dear Miriam. I thank you for all the insights that you have shared on this thread.

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I have posted here for a few reasons–so that a few discerning people could hopefully see a different perspective than what people such as Isaiah Bennett or a few other past members (whose self-sifting was a good thing for them personally) present as incorrect “facts”, which are “accepted” by so many other people who add it to their set of what corresponds with what they want to believe about people they otherwise know very little about, showing their human nature which is OK.

Also, finding that I could defend every point brought up, straight from the Bible (though not according to the one I was writing to), has helped me greatly in treasuring the Bible

Parker has mastered double-speak. Here you have a priest, Isaiah Bennett, who left the Church and became a Mormon and taught the faith for a year and a half in Salt Lake City, who was a “trophy” for the Mormons, and now, according to Parker, has "presented incorrect ‘facts’ " . . . which he can defend straight from the Bible (he means, not the Bible but his interpretation of it, and the LDS’s).

Bennett didn’t need to misrepresent Mormonism, and he didn’t. Mormonism straight-up is a shocking piece of work.

What facts presented in Bennett’s book do you claim are false?

May the Triune God have mercy,

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Miriam, I wanted to add this to my post to you, but too much time had elapsed and I couldn’t. So I’ll post it separately.

Isaiah Bennett says in his introduction that “My prayer is that my experience and writings may stand in reparation for my acts against faith and charity. If they can enlighten readers to the beauty and truth of the Catholic faith and alert them to the dangers of Mormonism, then God will have brought something good from my sojourn. As Paul tells us, 'We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him” (Rom. 8:28).

Peace, Jim Dandy

 

[Miriam1947]

Jim Dandy, thank you so much.

I really need to work on my personal humility. I go off the rails sometimes and it is not a good thing.

I will get the book.

 

[ParkerD]

Parker has mastered double-speak. Here you have a priest, Isaiah Bennett, who left the Church and became a Mormon and taught the faith for a year and a half in Salt Lake City, who was a “trophy” for the Mormons, and now, according to Parker, has "presented incorrect ‘facts’ " . . . which he can defend straight from the Bible (he means, not the Bible but his interpretation of it, and the LDS’s).

Bennett didn’t need to misrepresent Mormonism, and he didn’t.
What facts presented in Bennett’s book do you claim are false?

Jim Dandy

JD,

I had never heard of Isaiah Bennett, so just because he may have considered himself a “trophy” doesn’t mean such was the case. As far as I and anyone I know are concerned, there are no “trophy” people who join the LDS church–it is a wrong concept.

I’ve read articles written by him on this website–not his books. The articles contain much that is untruthful, but go along the same lines as so much that is presented in this forum that I have attempted to refute time after time and they just keep coming up, so it seems to be a “lost cause” on this forum.

If you would like one example, let me know if you wish, although clearly it wastes both of our time.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Parker, i have two questions.
Catholics have been accused by the LDS of worshipping Mary and the Saints, yet I do not know any who understand their faith who would do this. For me it would be impossible to worship any other but God.

Christians worship Jesus as well as the Father through the Holy Spirit.

Do you Parker worship Jesus?

Can you place Him above all things?
youtube.com/watch?v=dtuS8a-MAb8

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me, a sinner.

 

[ParkerD]

Parker, i have two questions.
Catholics have been accused by the LDS of worshipping Mary and the Saints, yet I do not know any who understand their faith who would do this. For me it would be impossible to worship any other but God.

Christians worship Jesus as well as the Father through the Holy Spirit.

Do you Parker worship Jesus?

Can you place Him above all things?

Catholic-RCIA,

I have answered about worshiping Jesus Christ time and again. The answer is yes.

The answer to your last question is that I do, and rejoice in understanding His guiding influence in my life and the lives of many, many people I love. I see and feel it every day of my life, which as you may know makes life very purposeful and joyful.

As far as Catholic worship, it is not really my business nor have I accused any of any of the things you mentioned.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

JD,

I had never heard of Isaiah Bennett, so just because he may have considered himself a “trophy” doesn’t mean such was the case. As far as I and anyone I know are concerned, there are no “trophy” people who join the LDS church–it is a wrong concept.

I’ve read articles written by him on this website–not his books. The articles contain much that is untruthful, but go along the same lines as so much that is presented in this forum that I have attempted to refute time after time and they just keep coming up, so it seems to be a “lost cause” on this forum.

If you would like one example, let me know if you wish, although clearly it wastes both of our time.

ParkerD, we should pursue this in a separate thread. I would like to know the answer,but if we pursue it here, we’ll likely be told by the moderator that it’s off topic.

The reason it’a “a lost cause on this forum” is that we state the truth about Mormon teachings, from Mormon sources, and you repeatedly deny it.

“Trophy” is my word applied to the obvious delight Mormons took in frequently asking Bennett and his wife to “give their testimony” (of their becoming Mormon). I’m calling attention.to his “untestimony,” written in his book Inside Mormonism.

Watch for the new thread, please.

Jim Dandy

 

[catholic-rcia]

Catholic-RCIA,

I have answered about worshiping Jesus Christ time and again. The answer is yes.

The answer to your last question is that I do, and rejoice in understanding His guiding influence in my life and the lives of many, many people I love. I see and feel it every day of my life, which as you may know makes life very purposeful and joyful.

As far as Catholic worship, it is not really my business nor have I accused any of any of the things you mentioned.

Thank you Parker. Couple follow up questions.

Does your Church encourage worshipping Jesus as you do?
Can you show me this? Not just the fact that you have the name of Jesus on your buildings, or that you say the name of Jesus / Savior at the end of a prayer. But that your Church goes much deeper into a personal relatioship with Jesus. In speaking directly to Him, the worshipping of Him in daily life.

Do you also pray / speak to Jesus?
Does your Church encourage this?

Talk to Jesus directly in your day to day life as the Apostles did?

Does your Church encourage prayer to Jesus?

 

[ParkerD]

ParkerD, we should pursue this in a separate thread. I would like to know the answer,but if we pursue it here, we’ll likely be told by the moderator that it’s off topic.

The reason it’a “a lost cause on this forum” is that we state the truth about Mormon teachings, from Mormon sources, and you repeatedly deny it.

“Trophy” is my word applied to the obvious delight Mormons took in frequently asking Bennett and his wife to “give their testimony” (of their becoming Mormon). I’m calling attention.to his “untestimony,” written in his book Inside Mormonism.

Watch for the new thread, please.

Jim Dandy

JD,

“Prize catch” is also a term that simply does not match Latter-day Saint thinking about anyone who joins The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is completely contrary to the teachings of the Savior to consider any member in such a way. Being invited to share a testimony is not indicative of being considered “special”.

Bennett uses non-doctrinal sources such as The Seer from an old book that was not only never used as any sort of teaching text, but was said specifically to be incorrect and that it should not be referred to soon after it was published by its writer. This example, and the example of using Mormon Doctrine as a source when again that book has always been acknowledged to be one man’s (or two, since Bruce R McConkie sometimes quoted Joseph Fielding Smith, his father-in-law) own opinions and thus not an approved source for doctrinal teachings, are what I would cite as examples that when Bennett says “the Mormon church teaches” thus and so, he is relating personal opinions and has not used either “teaching sources” for those statements (which means the statement “the Mormon church teaches” is not truthful), or doctrinal sources for those statements.

As far as a new thread, I don’t have the time or interest to follow up in that way, and such a conversation would lead toward contention and not be uplifting to anyone.

 

[ParkerD]

Thank you Parker. Couple follow up questions.

Does your Church encourage worshipping Jesus as you do?
Can you show me this? Not just the fact that you have the name of Jesus on your buildings, or that you say the name of Jesus / Savior at the end of a prayer. But that your Church goes much deeper into a personal relatioship with Jesus. In speaking directly to Him, the worshipping of Him in daily life.

Do you also pray / speak to Jesus?
Does your Church encourage this?

Talk to Jesus directly in your day to day life as the Apostles did?

Does your Church encourage prayer to Jesus?

Catholic-RCIA,

I think you know that Latter-day Saints do not formally pray to Jesus, nor did Jesus teach that He should be prayed to. Latter-day Saints follow what Jesus taught, and follow His example and the example of the apostles.

We certainly can feel like we have the kind of relationship with Jesus that results in a conversational approach such as “thank you, Jesus, for helping me in this.” Or, “Jesus, I love you so very much and am so thankful for all you have done for me.” These could be thoughts in the mind–words in the heart.

Definition of “worship” as a verb:

“Pay divine honors to, adore, venerate.”
“Perform acts of homage or adoration.”
“Revere, reverence, honor.”

We do those.

 

[rainman10]

Why the attitude we are sneaky? Either something is doctrine or it is not.
If it is not doctrine, then we may be discussing specualation about what has not been revealed.
I will be the first to admit LDS have speculated about the unknow, but speculation is not doctrine.

Can anything that the Mormon religion teaches really be doctrine? Since any of what they teach can be changed by new revelation, how can that be doctrine? True doctrine does not change, ever.