Is Mormonism a Polytheistic religion?

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When Joseph Smith said “each God in the Godhead is a personage, separate and distinct from each of the others,” what do you think he meant? I suspect you see something in that that I don’t. The LDS teaches that the Father has a flesh & bones body. Is that basically what you’re disagreeing with?

When Joseph talked about the plurality of Gods, in my mind he meant nothing more than that the Father is Ruler, Jesus is Ruler, and the Holy Spirit is Ruler—and together they form one Ruler.
Joseph Smith said:

Hence, the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible . . . Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many . . . but to us there is but one God–that is pertaining to us; and he is in all and through all" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, page 474). “In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.”

If one believes there is a council of the Gods, then one is polytheistic.

If you don’t believe JS, then who created the world and how did s/he they/it do it?
 
How long have you been Mormon?
From his first post on, I’ve been wondering and debating the same thing in my mind. He certainly does seem to be using a lot of the same rhetoric, circular arguments and ‘buzzwords’ that all Mormons use. Not to mention the typically ‘butter wouldn’t melt in my mouth’ type of sickeningly sweet condescension towards anyone that disagrees with them. :rolleyes:

It’s a typical ploy that’s used many times by forum ‘trolls’. They post under another name to offer ‘support’ to another of their own forum ID’s, or to one of their friends that can’t seem to make a believable point on their own and need to bring in ‘reinforcements’, to help them with their arguments. It’s a very old forum trick that some people like to use to make themselves sound more convincing. Having been on a few other forums, I tend to be skeptical when someone just pops in from out of nowhere to defend someone that’s having a hard time convincing others that he’s telling the truth. I guess I’ve gotten a bit cynical after a few too many go-arounds with some of them.
 
Was wondering myself as they came in about the same time…appearing to help out.
 
ParkerD, you said:

In your view, which Greek philosophies and which Catholic doctrines are linked? Surely you see some value, at least, in Aristotle’s metaphysics. That system, through Aquinas, is the best means to combat the hypermaterialsm and religious loathing of the New Atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennet, Harris, et al). If not Aristotle’s metaphysics (which didn’t have much of an impact on Catholic thought until Aquinas, anyway), then which Greek philosophical concepts are you referencing? How were those philosophies transmitted into Catholic teaching and by whom? I’ve heard this assertion before (from Mormons who were citing Protestants), but have yet to hear anyone actually make a good case in its defense by actually citing Greek philosophical texts. I’m interested in any info you can provide explicating those linkages as you see them (maybe in a new thread?). Thanks.

NS
Hi, NewSeeker,

I realize this thread has moved on, and that SteveVH posted a quote from an Ensign article that touches briefly on your question, and also provides some references that within those references are many other underlying references to other writers. So I’ll be brief in response to your questions.

Any student will find that Thomas Aquinas used the writings that had been attributed to the teachings of Aristotle as a foundation for his own writing in defending the teachings of the Catholic church and laying the groundwork for expanding its system of teaching and beliefs. So Aquinas could not help but be influenced by Aristotle, and his writings further cemented the apostolic creed and the Nicene creed and other Catholic doctrines, which as well have foundations from Greek philosophy since many Gentile converts were Greek and had been influenced by the “reasoning” of Greek philosophy.

The Nicene council was not convened because the church was unified and had no divisions regarding doctrine–it was convened because there was disunity and there were great divisions regarding doctrine. It was either a product of the reasoning from that council, and a “compromise”, or the product of the strongest faction getting their way in the words used in the Nicene creed.

The Bible is not a “reasoning” text. It is a revelation text, showing a direct communication relationship with God, where in fact reasoning is going to be ultimately set aside as inadequate and leading away from direct communication with God (as noted by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2-3).

But the ultimate result of the reasoning that is so much the basis of Catholic thought (and some of Protestant thought which comes out of Catholic thought) is that humankind have expanded free will choice–do we seek a direct revelation relationship with God, or do we seek a “reasoned” relationship with God and thus trust rational thought as the basis for one’s religious beliefs including “communion” with God?

How this relates to this thread, is that as I previously noted and as the article by Elder Oaks noted (which I hadn’t read prior to today, or had forgotten if I did read it), the concept of “one with God” as the Savior prayed in His intercessory prayer, can’t be a literal concept under the reasoning of Aristotle because of the nature of God as explained by him.

Under that “reasoning” approach to theology, just as so often pointed out on these threads by Catholics, God seems to be limited (meaning not really omnipotent after all) to not being able to bring humankind into real “oneness” with Him–not really to have a “divine nature”–or that would be being a god in order to really be “one with God”.
 
Was wondering myself as they came in about the same time…appearing to help out.
Kathleen,

You could go to the link he provided in one of his posts. He put it there for a purpose–so that people would use the link and be able to find out more about his organization, which is definitely not a Latter-day Saint organization by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Hi, NewSeeker,

I realize this thread has moved on, and that SteveVH posted a quote from an Ensign article that touches briefly on your question, and also provides some references that within those references are many other underlying references to other writers. So I’ll be brief in response to your questions.

Any student will find that Thomas Aquinas used the writings that had been attributed to the teachings of Aristotle as a foundation for his own writing in defending the teachings of the Catholic church and laying the groundwork for expanding its system of teaching and beliefs. So Aquinas could not help but be influenced by Aristotle, and his writings further cemented the apostolic creed and the Nicene creed and other Catholic doctrines, which as well have foundations from Greek philosophy since many Gentile converts were Greek and had been influenced by the “reasoning” of Greek philosophy.

The Nicene council was not convened because the church was unified and had no divisions regarding doctrine–it was convened because there was disunity and there were great divisions regarding doctrine. It was either a product of the reasoning from that council, and a “compromise”, or the product of the strongest faction getting their way in the words used in the Nicene creed.

The Bible is not a “reasoning” text. It is a revelation text, showing a direct communication relationship with God, where in fact reasoning is going to be ultimately set aside as inadequate and leading away from direct communication with God (as noted by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2-3).

But the ultimate result of the reasoning that is so much the basis of Catholic thought (and some of Protestant thought which comes out of Catholic thought) is that humankind have expanded free will choice–do we seek a direct revelation relationship with God, or do we seek a “reasoned” relationship with God and thus trust rational thought as the basis for one’s religious beliefs including “communion” with God?

How this relates to this thread, is that as I previously noted and as the article by Elder Oaks noted (which I hadn’t read prior to today, or had forgotten if I did read it), the concept of “one with God” as the Savior prayed in His intercessory prayer, can’t be a literal concept under the reasoning of Aristotle because of the nature of God as explained by him.

Under that “reasoning” approach to theology, just as so often pointed out on these threads by Catholics, God seems to be limited (meaning not really omnipotent after all) to not being able to bring humankind into real “oneness” with Him–not really to have a “divine nature”–or that would be being a god in order to really be “one with God”.
Hi Parker.

I think the problem is more that the Mormon concept of God doesn’t fit sound reasoning. Are you of the mind that we should throw reason out the window? You make the assumption that Christ’s prayer that we may be one as the Father and the Son are one somehow denies the Trinity. We believe very much that we will become one with him, but more than that we believe that we already become one with him when we consume him in the Eucharist, something you have never experienced. When we reach heaven we will experience the intimacy of the inner life of the Trinity, our oneness consisting in living as sons and daughters in the family of God.

The fact that sound reason comports with true faith should not surprise anyone. I challenge you to argue against the reasoning of Thomas Acquinas. It was God that gave us the gift of reason in order that we might find truth. That is the problem that many of us have with the Mormon faith, especially on this subject. Reason is truly thrown out the window.

You must believe this:

"I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity" (Moroni 8:18).

"For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and in him there is no variableness, neither shadow of changing? And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles." (Mormon 9:9-10).

and at the same time this:

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another" (King Follett Discourse).

You must, at once, believe in a God that is never changing and at the same time a God who relies upon change in order to progress from a man into God. Reason has nothing to do with this contradiction, that is for sure.
 
“Each God in the Godhead is a personage, separate and distinct from each of the others, yet they are ‘One God,’ meaning that they are united as one in the attributes of perfection. For instance, each has the fullness of truth, knowledge, charity, power, justice, judgment, mercy, and faith.”
Logically, when we make a statement about God (e.g. “God is Love”, “God has the fullness of truth”), we cannot be speaking accurately about God but only using a figure of speech (metaphor, analogy, etc.) in an attempt to convey a limited way to relate to God. God can’t have parts so He can’t have a finite part and an infinite part. He is completely not finite. Any words or combination of words is completely finite. Hence it is impossible to use words to accurately say anything positive about what God is. If we could actually describe God, we could understand him, How can a finite mind encompass infinity?

If both a Mormon and a non-Mormon agree on the definition of Polytheism, and the Mormon says he is not a Polytheist, yet uses words to describe God that the non-Mormon interprets as expressing Polytheism, then it seems to me that there are only two possibilities. Either the Mormon is just playing and not trying to express anything real or else the non-Mormon lacks the cultural experience and references to understand the way that the Mormon understands the words he uses as a way to gain a limited appreciation of God.

In either case, I certainly agree that “there’s a disconnect of communication”.

Is it reasonable to demand that the Mormon translate his words into a metaphorical/analogical language that has the same meaning in the non-Mormon’s culture? Translating culturally specific references is extremely difficult.

Wouldn’t the onus be on the non-Mormon to learn enough about Mormonism to be able to understand the Mormon’s metaphorical/analogical language?
 
If both a Mormon and a non-Mormon agree on the definition of Polytheism, and the Mormon says he is not a Polytheist, yet uses words to describe God that the non-Mormon interprets as expressing Polytheism, then it seems to me that there are only two possibilities. Either the Mormon is just playing and not trying to express anything real or else the non-Mormon lacks the cultural experience and references to understand the way that the Mormon understands the words he uses as a way to gain a limited appreciation of God.
There is, of course, a third possibility: The Mormon could be trying to deceive - to convince the non-Mormon that he does not believe those doctrines that the non-Mormon finds troublesome and that the LDS church does not teach those doctrines, when in truth it has taught those doctrines for 180 years. This type of deception is common from Mormons and they are very skilled at it. Those who are not experienced in Mormonism are often successfully deceived by this tactic.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
Exactly, Paul.

It is an attempt to deceive…you cannot compare Catholicism and Mormonism.
 
The Bible is not a “reasoning” text. It is a revelation text, showing a direct communication relationship with God, where in fact reasoning is going to be ultimately set aside as inadequate and leading away from direct communication with God (as noted by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2-3).
ParkerD, you continue to quote the Bible as if it were reliable, even though you believe that the “great and abominable [Catholic] Church” has “taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious, and many of the covenants of the Lord that we might pervert the right ways of the Lord that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men” 1 Nephi 13:25-29. What would those alleged “plain and most precious things” reveal, if they were available? You cannot logically rely upon the Bible, since Mormons hold that it has been tampered with by the Catholic Church. But then, Mormonism and logic are incompatible.

Since those (presumed) “plain and most precious parts” have never been restored to the Bible – not even by Joseph Smith in his “inspired revision” of the KJV – why do you continue to use the Bible as a “revelation text”?

I repeat: The New Testament consists of 27 of the Catholic Church’s own writings, canonized at the end of the fourth century. Yet you claim to know what the words mean. Absurd.

Jim Dandy
 
Hi ParkerD,

I think perhaps you misunderstand Aristotle. He used unaided reason (no reference to authority, no reliance on an oracle) to posit a God who must necessarily exist, given certain undeniable facts about change in material objects. His conclusion is that God is pure being, not one being among other beings, but Being itself; the Prime Mover and First Cause, not contingent, the only uncaused cause, who, as the ultimate source of all change, is necessarily posited to be holding all things whatsoever in existence from moment to moment through an act of will. Aquinas found Aristotle’s God to be quite amenable to Christianity and used Aristotelian arguments to bolster Christian claims (what had always been taught) and expanded upon Aristotle to assert that God, as Prime Mover, First Cause, and Being Itself, must also necessarily be the Good and the Perfect, Love Itself. This kind of god is very alien to Mormonism’s embodied male, complete with arms, legs, hair, and nipples (presumably, as he was once a man like you and me). And you’re right, there’s no way we mere humans can become that. How can we, as we are contingent and created?

Insofar as contingent, created humans are essentially different from the true God, then you’re correct - humans will never have a “divine nature”. Instead, we can share in that nature through Christ, not that we can ever become God, i.e. become Pure Being, the Prime Mover and First Cause ourselves. That is not to limit God. God is Reason, Truth, and Sense. He cannot do the unreasonable and the nonsensical, even though He is God. God cannot divide his divine essence and hand out pieces of it like candy, as that essence is necessarily indivisible. There can only be one uncaused cause or principle of existence, only one divine essence and ground of being, as Aristotle proved, and therefore only monotheism is rationally defensible and this is why Mormonism is wrong. This is also why Mormon leaders denigrate philosophy and lump reliance on Aristotle and other philosophers under the category of “reliance on the arm of flesh.”

It just so happens that that is Who God Is. The Mormon idea of an embodied, male god living somewhere ‘out there’ near Kolob is contrary to reason and is refuted by Aristotle and by the Christian revelation. God is Being Itself, the I AM of scripture. There can be and only is one divine essence. The existence of such a God (the only possible God) is necessarily entailed by the nature of change in the material cosmos. Aristotle, the pagan, proved this long ago and he has never been refuted. Revelation has nothing to do with it. We can see that God, the divine, must necessarily have the qualities Aristotle described. As God is Truth, even truth perceived by a pagan philosopher is of value and is important to a Christian - as Aquinas recognized, and as the Church recognized when she made Aquinas a Doctor of the Church. Refuting Aristotle’s god requires refuting his arguments, not asserting the presence of a so-called “revelation” from a New York farmboy. Without a First Cause and Prime Mover, nothing in the material cosmos would exist. This is what Aristotle proved.
 
Now getting from that to the Holy Trinity required revelation. The Christian revelation brought us knowledge that God is three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That knowledge did not come from Greek philosophy. The knowledge that the divine is One, a single essence and the ground of being, also did not come only from Greek philosophy (Christians have always believed this), but the fact that Aristotle proved that the divine being must necessarily be like Aristotle described Him meant that Aquinas could use Aristotle to elucidate the statements on the Trinity found in the Creeds.

The Nicene Council enshrined what had always been taught and what had been preserved in Holy Tradition, represented by the majority view at the council. Arianism was the minority view and was rightly defeated by the council. The trinitarian view was not invented at the Council. The majority did not emerge during the council, but existed before the council. Mormons and Protestants like to imagine that Constantine scared the bishops into going along with the trinitarian view, but such a view ignores the facts of history. The council was organized shortly after the Edict of Milan and many participants still bore the scars of tortures endured at the hands of Roman persecutors during the last of the anti-Christian campaigns perpetrated by the Empire. Bishops in attendance who were in that position during the persecutions were those who survived those who never renounced their Christian faith. It’s hard to believe that Constantine would have scared these men. No. The reality is that the trinitarian doctrine did not originate at the Council and was indeed held by the majority of bishops in attendance, as the eyewitness accounts from Athanasius and Eusebius attest.

With all that said, my original question is still (mostly) unanswered. Dallin H. Oaks and other church leaders have asserted that greek philosophy corrupted the gospel. The Apostasy (if we say it occured for argument’s sake) could have occured no later than the end of the 1st Century. It’s known that Aristotle didn’t influence Catholic thought until Aquinas. The Churches of Rome and Antioch were clearly Catholic, hierarchical and liturgical by the time Clement (a Roman), Ignatius (a Syrian), and Justin Martyr (born in Palestine) wrote their letters. If there was a corrupting influence of Greek philosophy on the church that led to the Apostasy, it must have done its work during the 1st Century and it must have been someone other than Aristotle - whose writings didn’t make it to the West until after Islamic mathematicians brought them there during the muslim invasions. In your opinion, which Greek philosophies were the culprit? Which Greek writings were used by Christians during the 1st Century and who did the corrupting? In an earlier post, you mentioned doctrines that crept into the Church asserting that matter was evil and only spirit was pure. These are gnostic teachings, not necessarily Greek (they are also found in Jewish writings) and definitely not part of the body teachings in the mainstream of Greek philosophy, deriving from the line of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. But as another poster indicated, it is not true that the gnostic teaching that the flesh is evil every infiltrated the church. To the contrary, gnosticism was countered early on and was fought vigorously (by Iranaeus in his “Against Heresies”, to cite one example). The Catholic Church, from the very beginning, has taught that matter is the creation of God and is therefore good. So, if not the gnostics or Aristotle, which Greek philosophies corrupted the Church in the 1st Century, creating an obviously very Catholic Church in both Rome and Antioch by the end of the 1st Century?

Sorry for the long post. I am looking forward to your answer.

NS
 
Now getting from that to the Holy Trinity required revelation. The Christian revelation brought us knowledge that God is three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That knowledge did not come from Greek philosophy. The knowledge that the divine is One, a single essence and the ground of being, also did not come only from Greek philosophy (Christians have always believed this), but the fact that Aristotle proved that the divine being must necessarily be like Aristotle described Him meant that Aquinas could use Aristotle to elucidate the statements on the Trinity found in the Creeds.

The Nicene Council enshrined what had always been taught and what had been preserved in Holy Tradition, represented by the majority view at the council. Arianism was the minority view and was rightly defeated by the council. The trinitarian view was not invented at the Council. The majority did not emerge during the council, but existed before the council. Mormons and Protestants like to imagine that Constantine scared the bishops into going along with the trinitarian view, but such a view ignores the facts of history. The council was organized shortly after the Edict of Milan and many participants still bore the scars of tortures endured at the hands of Roman persecutors during the last of the anti-Christian campaigns perpetrated by the Empire. Bishops in attendance who were in that position during the persecutions were those who survived those who never renounced their Christian faith. It’s hard to believe that Constantine would have scared these men. No. The reality is that the trinitarian doctrine did not originate at the Council and was indeed held by the majority of bishops in attendance, as the eyewitness accounts from Athanasius and Eusebius attest.

With all that said, my original question is still (mostly) unanswered. Dallin H. Oaks and other church leaders have asserted that greek philosophy corrupted the gospel. The Apostasy (if we say it occured for argument’s sake) could have occured no later than the end of the 1st Century. It’s known that Aristotle didn’t influence Catholic thought until Aquinas. The Churches of Rome and Antioch were clearly Catholic, hierarchical and liturgical by the time Clement (a Roman), Ignatius (a Syrian), and Justin Martyr (born in Palestine) wrote their letters. If there was a corrupting influence of Greek philosophy on the church that led to the Apostasy, it must have done its work during the 1st Century and it must have been someone other than Aristotle - whose writings didn’t make it to the West until after Islamic mathematicians brought them there during the muslim invasions. In your opinion, which Greek philosophies were the culprit? Which Greek writings were used by Christians during the 1st Century and who did the corrupting? In an earlier post, you mentioned doctrines that crept into the Church asserting that matter was evil and only spirit was pure. These are gnostic teachings, not necessarily Greek (they are also found in Jewish writings) and definitely not part of the body teachings in the mainstream of Greek philosophy, deriving from the line of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. But as another poster indicated, it is not true that the gnostic teaching that the flesh is evil every infiltrated the church. To the contrary, gnosticism was countered early on and was fought vigorously (by Iranaeus in his “Against Heresies”, to cite one example). The Catholic Church, from the very beginning, has taught that matter is the creation of God and is therefore good. So, if not the gnostics or Aristotle, which Greek philosophies corrupted the Church in the 1st Century, creating an obviously very Catholic Church in both Rome and Antioch by the end of the 1st Century?

Sorry for the long post. I am looking forward to your answer.

NS
I normally get a little perturbed at long posts. I couldn’t get enough of this one. Thank you for laying this out in such a concise, well thought out manner. Awesome! 👍

Dallin Oaks was vague in his assertions for a reason. When one actually looks at the historical record his argument falls apart. Now, I can understand folks in Joseph Smith’s time not being familiar with the history of the Church, although the information was certainly available. But for someone to make comments of this sort in this day and age is inexcusable.
 
St Thomas removed the terms cause and effect, and put God in as God, and His effects or quiddities…strange word.

But philosophically, from the Aristotelian method, he could prove the existence of God.
 
Originally Posted by ParkerD View Post
(3) It was called free will choice, even then. Lucifer made his own free will choice to rebel, and tried to persuade as many as he could persuade to follow him, because he wanted to “be like the most High”.
SteveVH:
Interesting. Do you know of any religious group today who has the same aspirations?
100% pure Colombian awesome. This whole thread should have just ended right there. Game, set and match.
 
Okay, just kidding. If it ended there, we wouldn’t have NewSeeker’s last two posts.

To the general reader*:

Re: NewSeeker’s last two posts.

Ahem. YEAH! What HE said!

Yours,

Crdl2Grv.

(* - This is my new favorite thing in the whole world. I now start every third sentence or so with this phrase. The lovely Mrs. Crdl2Grv is, perhaps, not quite as enamored with it as I am, but I’m pretty sure she’ll come around.)
 
I am assuming that your list of essentials in being a Christian is “as long as we are in Christ by faith, as long as He is our Lord, as long as we walk in the light He has placed in our hearts, we are covered by Jesus Christ (the atonement).” Maybe you can show me where that list is in scripture. I’ve never seen it.

No, that’s not the list. Follow the link at message #865.
SteveVH;8252003:
Your remarks here are a little condescending, don’t you think? Hopefully, some day we can become just as enlightened as you, once we change our thinking and break free of the faith we have believed in for such a long time. 😉
I’m sorry if that came across condescendingly. I couldn’t think of how else to word it. I’m not saying I’m more spiritual than you are. I’m only saying that the Lord revealed some stuff to me about the Mormon Church by his grace.

Charismatics are big on listening for God’s voice and following it. I believe that’s what the Christian life is all about. I’ve read about the lives of some of the great Catholic Saints and they did a lot of that. I think that’s what made them so spiritual. I should hear God’s voice much better than I do.

Blessings to you and Kathleen.
 
**Cal Fullerton wrote:**I’m sorry if that came across condescendingly. I couldn’t think of how else to word it. I’m not saying I’m more spiritual than you are. I’m only saying that the Lord revealed some stuff to me about the Mormon Church by his grace.
Hmmm. :hmmm:The Lord revealed “stuff” to you about Mormonism “by his grace”? :bowdown:

And you feel it is your obligation to pass this “stuff” on to the posters on this thread so that those of us to whom God didn’t reveal this secret knowledge will get the message? Have I got that right?

Did God also reveal to you where we got the Bible? Please answer #871.

Thanks,

Jim Dandy
 
SteveVH;8252003:
I am assuming that your list of essentials in being a Christian is “as long as we are in Christ by faith, as long as He is our Lord, as long as we walk in the light He has placed in our hearts, we are covered by Jesus Christ (the atonement).”
Maybe you can show me where that list is in scripture. I’ve never seen it.

No, that’s not the list. Follow the link at message #865.

Well, you are the one that said “as long as we are in Christ by faith, as long as He is our Lord, as long as we walk in the light He has placed in our hearts, we are covered by Jesus Christ (the atonement).” That seemed pretty definitive to me, but I’ll check out your link.
I’m sorry if that came across condescendingly. I couldn’t think of how else to word it. I’m not saying I’m more spiritual than you are. I’m only saying that the Lord revealed some stuff to me about the Mormon Church by his grace
.

Ahh, the burning in the bosom. So if you are Mormon why don’t you just come out and say it? There is an attitude that seems to run among some of the Mormon posters here to the affect that “God speaks to me (and not to you, obviously) and so I know things you don’t, but I’m happy to try and help you poor deluded people.” It gets really old in a hurry.
Charismatics are big on listening for God’s voice and following it. I believe that’s what the Christian life is all about. I’ve read about the lives of some of the great Catholic Saints and they did a lot of that. I think that’s what made them so spiritual. I should hear God’s voice much better than I do.

Blessings to you and Kathleen.
I happen to be charismatic as well. One of the principles of being charismatic is learning to discern the voice of God from your own voice, or some other voice. I would highly recommend that you follow that principle.
 
No, that’s not the list. Follow the link at message #865.
Well, I just read through your blog. Please tell me that you are aware that the Mormon Church uses the same Christian terms with absolutely different definitions. This ranges from the basic nature of God to the defintion of salvation itself and everything in between.

For them to tell me they believe in Jesus Christ means nothing. They don’t even worship him for crying out loud, which is kind of a basic Christian thing, don’t you think? That should tell you something. And it just goes down hill from there.

Why don’t you try and get their actual definition of Christian terms, if that is possible, and then make your comparison.
 
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