Is Mormonism a Polytheistic religion?

[mwok]

I’m just not seeing anywhere that Christ is preparing us for “Godhood”. What I see is God’s perfect love lived out in the Incarnate Word named Jesus Christ.

 

[ParkerD]

Hi Parker - You forgot this one:
Question:
Who created Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother?
Your Quote:
They are self-existing. Answer, then, is “no one.”

My Question:
If God’s parents are self-existing, then they are the beginning. Were they gods?
Don’t you believe that God was once a man?This is my third time asking this.

Lax16,

Heavenly Father was once a Man just like Jesus Christ and lived on an earth, per the teachings of Joseph Smith. This does not mean I know or we know or anyone knows how Heavenly Father came to be on the earth where He lived and resurrected Himself. Some have assumed, and that is OK for them, but I don’t make the assumption that I know the answer to that kind of question. Nor do I need to know the answer–it is not important to me. Joseph Smith taught that the Supreme Ruler of the universe is self-existing; and that we are self-existing (to a lesser extent) in that we have an “intelligence” that is part of our spirit, and that “intelligence” is self-existing. So God organized our spirit from an existing “intelligence” that makes you completely unique from anyone else in the universe, and your children completely unique.

The underlying question I think you are getting at again, is whether God the Father had a Father, and the answer again is “I don’t know” but if so, then They are one, not through the atonement of Christ but because through Their knowledge, love, and unity They are One in all attributes and One in complete omnipotence, complete unity of thought and will, and complete perfection.

 

[zaffiroborant]

NewSeeker,

. Latter-day Saints know that the phrase “His offspring” is literal, and means precisely what the translated words say.

Except that “His offspring” is not literal.

You still don’t seem to “get” that spirits and spirit birth are not physical, so there is no “pregnancy” implied at all beyond this life. You can rest your mind about those poor women.

From MW on-line:

Definition of OFFSPRING
1
a : the product of the reproductive processes of an animal or plant : young, progeny b : child
2
a : product, result <scholarly manuscripts—the labored offsprings of PhDs — Donna Martin>
b : offshoot 1a

Heavenly Father and Mother are physical beings if their “offspring” are not a result of the reproductive process then they are offspring in a figurative sense and not a literal one.

 

[mwok]

ParkerD

Where do you get that Jesus is God’s “offspring”?

 

[ParkerD]

Except that “His offspring” is not literal.

From MW on-line:

Heavenly Father and Mother are physical beings if their “offspring” are not a result of the reproductive process then they are offspring in a figurative sense and not a literal one.

Zaffiroborant,

I understand that for you, it isn’t.

Offspring also ties to the word “progeny” which ties to the word “progenitor” which ties to the words “bring forth”. Offspring is one who has been “brought forth”, and it also means “progeny”, and there certainly can be such a thing as “spirit progeny”.

 

[ParkerD]

ParkerD

Where do you get that Jesus is God’s “offspring”?

From a literal reading and understanding of Luke 1:32-35, and from Luke 2:49 and John 17:1 where Jesus says it in very plain language.

 

[mwok]

ParkerD

But “Bringing forth” is not the method stated in scripture about the origin of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was born of a virgin, which would not be the case if intercourse took place(which is what the mormon idea instigates physical or spiritual). We know this because not only did Mary state that she had no relations with man(she stated this by saying she did not “know” man which there are some old testament examples of people “knowing” eachother to produce an offspring{Sarah and Abraham}), but that being born of a virgin fulfilled an old testament prophecy. The angel told Mary that the Spirit of the Lord would “overshadow” her, not “know” her.

 

[JohnVIII]

…The underlying question I think you are getting at again, is whether God the Father had a Father, and the answer again is “I don’t know”…

Brigham Young (a Mormon Prophet) believed that Adam was God the Father and that Elohiem was Adam’s Father. So Brigham Young believed that God the Father had a Father. The Mormon Church no longer teaches that Adam is God the Father, but the same concept about the hierarchy of the Gods is still a common teaching in Mormonism. Saying “I don’t know” is not really an answer. Polytheism is a “belief” in more than one God, it is not a “knowledge” of more than one God.

 

[mwok]

From a literal reading and understanding of Luke 1:32-35, and from Luke 2:49 and John 17:1 where Jesus says it in very plain language.

Okay, I literally read those passages in my KJV that I have had ever since I was in seminary and I still don’t see how Jesus is the literal offspring of God the Father.
I call God the Father, Father. I am not His offspring, I am His created creature made in His image. Jesus was not made, so therefore Christ and I do not share the same lineage.

 

[ParkerD]

ParkerD

But “Bringing forth” is not the method stated in scripture about the origin of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was born of a virgin, which would not be the case if intercourse took place(which is what the mormon idea instigates physical or spiritual). We know this because not only did Mary state that she had no relations with man(she stated this by saying she did not “know” man which there are some old testament examples of people “knowing” eachother to produce an offspring{Sarah and Abraham}), but that being born of a virgin fulfilled an old testament prophecy. The angel told Mary that the Spirit of the Lord would “overshadow” her, not “know” her.

MWOK,

It was a miracle pregnancy, by miraculous means whereby Mary was still a virgin. Being omnipotent and having all knowledge, God the Father had both the capacity and the power and the knowledge to have Mary conceive a Son and this Holy Son be the Son of God, literally.

It’s a significantly important thing, because it meant He had power over death and could resurrect Himself if He did lay down His life in death.

 

[mwok]

Mwok,

One certainly shouldn’t “aspire to be a god”. One should aspire to be a servant just as Christ taught His disciples and apostles to “abase himself” to “be exalted”. One should aspire to love with a Christ-like love, and to “be ye therefore perfect” even as Father in Heaven is perfect. One who desires to accept what Christ and John taught should feel hopeful about being a “joint heir” with Christ, and should accept that this means there will be a significant learning process to “get there”, and that Christ will be the Master Teacher.

Plus, that He has both the power and the willingness to do that teaching, as we show a willingness to do the learning.

If I go to college to learn to become a teacher, the professor(master teacher) teaches me how to become a teacher, am I “aspiring” to be something other than a teacher?

If I live on this earth to learn to be perfect like the Father, the Master Teacher teaches me how to be perfect like the Father, am I “aspiring” to be something other than the Father?

 

[ParkerD]

Brigham Young (a Mormon Prophet) believed …

JohnVIII,

Brigham Young didn’t clarify what it was he meant by his statements that were picked up in the newspapers. He may have meant that Adam is the Ancient of Days and is Michael the Archangel, or that Adam presents his posterity to Christ and gives Christ the keys near the beginning of the Millenium, but in any case he was presenting his own personal beliefs about Adam, and it was never “taught” other than in those few talks where it wasn’t clarified what he meant by his statements.

Being one with God is not polytheism, unless that is going to be a new definition of the word and it is going to reference John 17 as the source of the new definition.

 

[mwok]

MWOK,

It’s a significantly important thing, because it meant He had power over death and could resurrect Himself if He did lay down His life in death.

Are you referring to God the Father, or Jesus because I got lost in the transition if there was one.

 

[ParkerD]

If I go to college to learn to become a teacher, the professor(master teacher) teaches me how to become a teacher, am I “aspiring” to be something other than a teacher?

If I live on this earth to learn to be perfect like the Father, the Master Teacher teaches me how to be perfect like the Father, am I “aspiring” to be something other than the Father?

Mwok,

“Aspire” is “to seek to attain something high or great”; “to long after”; to rise, tower, soar".

That does not contain the meaning “abase oneself”. It does not connote being a “servant”, nor does it connote meekness or humility which will be, of course, qualities of perfection. To me it has a somewhat selfish connotation in most uses of the word, instead of selflessness. (I guess one could “aspire” to be totally selfless, totally meek, and to be a joyful servant and that could work as a meaning.)

 

[ParkerD]

Are you referring to God the Father, or Jesus because I got lost in the transition if there was one.

Mwok,

Both had those qualities, but I was specifically meaning the Son of God, Jesus Christ, in that sentence.

 

[mwok]

So you don’t believe that you will be the god of your own world if you live by all mormon standards?

 

[mwok]

Mwok,

Both had those qualities, but I was specifically meaning the Son of God, Jesus Christ, in that sentence.

Okay, so how did being miraculously conceived of a virgin show that he had power over death?

I thought raising Himself up on His own divine authority did that.

 

[mwok]

Also, you said Jesus was the “literal offspring” of God the Father through a literal reading of scripture. Based on that, do you literally eat the body and drink the blood of Jesus Christ as he stated multiple times in John ch.6?

 

[zaffiroborant]

Zaffiroborant,

I understand that for you, it isn’t.

Offspring also ties to the word “progeny” which ties to the word “progenitor” which ties to the words “bring forth”. Offspring is one who has been “brought forth”, and it also means “progeny”, and there certainly can be such a thing as “spirit progeny”.

Yes Parker, that would be the figurative not the literal. Why is it every time the definition of words comes up (except when it comes to the definition of Christianity where you insist on the straight “dictionary” defintion) you seem to be playing something similar to 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Iceberg is related to snow, which is related to ice, which is related to water, which is related to rain which is related to crops, which is related to irrigation…or you make up your own definition or you refuse to use perfectly acceptable English words because you don’t like the thoughts of those who spoke the language they are derived from. You go way beyond Bill.

 

[mwok]

Yes Parker, that would be the figurative not the literal. Why is it every time the definition of words comes up (except when it comes to the definition of Christianity where you insist on the straight “dictionary” defintion) you seem to be playing something similar to 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Iceberg is related to snow, which is related to ice, which is related to water, which is related to rain which is related to crops, which is related to irrigation…or you make up your own definition or you refuse to use perfectly acceptable English words because you don’t like the thoughts of those who spoke the language they are derived from. You go way beyond Bill.

Okay, glad you caught that because I was lost!