Is Mormonism Christian ?

[1holycatholic]

So you still sacrifice bulls and lambs? I didn’t know that.

You know, you always throw out this silly one-liners. Beef up your posts and say something if you want me to answer. Otherwise keep it up, and I won’t. Deal?

Answer the problem of the Mormon teaching of the existence of Gods and the logical impossibility of the existence of more or less than one God.

Answer the problem of the Mormon teaching of the eternal progression in light of the perfection and necessary atemporality of God.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The Mormons, the catholics, the Protestants, the Muslims, the Buddhists, the JW’s, the Atheists all know and understand that there is one creator.

I assure you, atheists acknowledge no such thing.

Note: Atheists don’t admit but they to can excercise the same Godly loves as we can.

God is Love, but Love is not God.

So, the God of Mormonism is the God of creation whether they want to address Him as such or not, just as Allah is the name of the creator by which the Muslims want to address Him by.

There is One God.

Mormons believe in a multiplicity of gods.

Islam denies the Divinity of the Son.

If all are worshipping and praying to the same God, would you pray to Shiva? Would you worship the gods of tribal Africa?

You see, dear brother or sister, Jesus changed the our dead souls into live souls before any of us had any knowledge of it.

Since we now have knowledge of it, then it behooves us to spread the word by mouth and by our actions.

Translated, love of God in action in us.

Agreed.

If you are a Catholic, a protestant, Muslim or other and demonstrate none of the God like qualities, then they are missing the mark.

You are assuming, erroneously, that all the gods worshiped in the world are like the God you worship.

It really comes down to one word, LOVE.

If we don’t have it within, will a religion make us have it?

We get so busy swatting at nats we miss the big one.

Peace>>>AJ

I think you are on the verge of worshiping love, rather than God.

 

[Arandur]

It really comes down to one word, LOVE.

If we don’t have it within, will a religion make us have it?

We get so busy swatting at nats we miss the big one.

Peace>>>AJ

When you love someone, do you try to get to know them?

When you honor your father and mother, do you do what they wish when it is good for you?

If you are the subject of a rightful King, do you do what that King tells you?

There is more to love than acting kindly.

We care about Truth because God cares about Truth. We care about what He cares about. In fact, God IS Truth, so we care about Him when we care about Truth. When we speak of the Church, we speak of this Truth.

When we speak of the Church and Truth, we also speak of knowing God better, which is an act of love.

When we speak of belonging to the Church and even of obeying it, we speak of honoring our heavenly Father as well as obeying our King.

Love/Charity is at the core of it all, but it runs much deeper than mere kindness, and certainly much deeper than the superficiality of tolerance and acceptance. It combats sin for the sake of the sinner; it corrects falsehood for the sake of the deceived; it seeks to know God and share the joyous knowledge of our Lover; it seeks to obey our King and glorify His Kingdom.

That is why the Church matters. That is why it is One.

 

[wooka64]

Well do Mormonism believe in the Holy Trinty. Do you believe in Christ as the son of god?

why is their a book of Mormonism?

All Christian believe in the Holy Bible that God has given us.

for the record their are simulatries in islam and Christianity but we are not the same.

and for anyone that cares to answer what are the major diffrence

between Mormons and Christians.

 

[dianaiad]

Well do Mormonism believe in the Holy Trinty. Do you believe in Christ as the son of god?

Actually, yes. We do believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God.

why is their a book of Mormonism?

That’s “the Book of Mormon.” We believe that it is a history of some of the people in the Americas, and God’s dealing with them.

All Christian believe in the Holy Bible that God has given us.

Mormons believe in the bible, as well.

for the record their are simulatries in islam and Christianity but we are not the same.

Your point is…???

and for anyone that cares to answer what are the major diffrence

between Mormons and Christians.

See, here’s the problem: Mormons pretty much all believe that they ARE Christians, and don’t see why they have to let other Christians–whose doctrines and practices they don’t believe in–should get to tell them that they are not.

Especially since the only possible reasons to deny us the use of the title are all unworthy of Christian folks; discrimination, bias, bigotry, setting people up for persecution, like that.

As I have mentioned before, history has shown us that EVERY SINGLE TIME one Christian group decides that another group is ‘not Christian,’ it is for the purpose of making that group ‘lesser…’ and making it OK to hate.

“Christian” does NOT mean ‘saved.’ It does NOT mean 'believing the same thing I do."

It simply means that the belief system is based around the teachings of a certain Jesus of Nazareth, called Christ. That’s it.

I’ve been around for many years, and it is inevitable; it always is true that when I am told that I am not a Christian, that same person follows it up by insults to my faith, sometimes to me personally, a few times with threats–it is a red flag.

I cannot, and would not, insist that you believe that I am a Christian. I resent the hell out of being told that I must agree with you about that, because here it is, finally.

I am Christian.

It will not harm your eternal salvation (even in the eyes of your own beliefs) to admit that I believe that I am, whether you think so or not.

In fact, given that you don’t seem to know all that much about Mormonism, perhaps you should withhold that sort of judgment altogether.

 

[1holycatholic]

Actually, yes. We do believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God.

That’s “the Book of Mormon.” We believe that it is a history of some of the people in the Americas, and God’s dealing with them.

Mormons believe in the bible, as well.

Your point is…???

See, here’s the problem: Mormons pretty much all believe that they ARE Christians, and don’t see why they have to let other Christians–whose doctrines and practices they don’t believe in–should get to tell them that they are not.

Especially since the only possible reasons to deny us the use of the title are all unworthy of Christian folks; discrimination, bias, bigotry, setting people up for persecution, like that.

As I have mentioned before, history has shown us that EVERY SINGLE TIME one Christian group decides that another group is ‘not Christian,’ it is for the purpose of making that group ‘lesser…’ and making it OK to hate.

“Christian” does NOT mean ‘saved.’ It does NOT mean 'believing the same thing I do."

It simply means that the belief system is based around the teachings of a certain Jesus of Nazareth, called Christ. That’s it.

I’ve been around for many years, and it is inevitable; it always is true that when I am told that I am not a Christian, that same person follows it up by insults to my faith, sometimes to me personally, a few times with threats–it is a red flag.

I cannot, and would not, insist that you believe that I am a Christian. I resent the hell out of being told that I must agree with you about that, because here it is, finally.

I am Christian.

It will not harm your eternal salvation (even in the eyes of your own beliefs) to admit that I believe that I am, whether you think so or not.

In fact, given that you don’t seem to know all that much about Mormonism, perhaps you should withhold that sort of judgment altogether.

This is what Christians believe:
The Nicene Creed
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation,
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.

For our sake he was crucified
under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered died and was buried.

On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the
Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.

He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy
catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one
baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.
Your beliefs are not Christian.

 

[mfbukowski]

So what’s your problem with the Magisterium?

The process is the same. We both believe we receive what I would call “continuing revelation” in the same way.

The problem is that one of us is wrong about our beliefs.

 

[mfbukowski]

The God of all creation is the God of all.

The gods whom we wish to worship are the gods of money, lust, power and greed.

Jesus made one sacrifice for all, and for all time, making salvation
a free gift.

The Mormons, the catholics, the Protestants, the Muslims, the Buddhists, the JW’s, the Atheists all know and understand that there is one creator.
Note: Atheists don’t admit but they to can excercise the same Godly loves as we can.

They worship Him in how they happen to know Him.

Being born an Indian from the remote tribes of Africa was not by choice, and being born a Muslim either.

Therefore, if God is to be a God over all, then He is a God to them also regardless of what they were made to be born into.

Now, it just so happens that you were born into a family that knew about God via church or the bible, therefore you think you have an advantage over them?

There is no advantage for the souls sake for Jesus took care of that.

However, there is and advantage of having access to knowledge of God and understanding over others who may be less fortunate.

So, the God of Mormonism is the God of creation whether they want to address Him as such or not, just as Allah is the name of the creator by which the Muslims want to address Him by.

You see, dear brother or sister, Jesus changed the our dead souls into live souls before any of us had any knowledge of it.

Since we now have knowledge of it, then it behooves us to spread the word by mouth and by our actions.

Translated, love of God in action in us.

If you are a Catholic, a protestant, Muslim or other and demonstrate none of the God like qualities, then they are missing the mark.

It really comes down to one word, LOVE.

If we don’t have it within, will a religion make us have it?

We get so busy swatting at nats we miss the big one.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[1holycatholic]

Answer the problem of the Mormon teaching of the existence of Gods and the logical impossibility of the existence of more or less than one God.

Answer the problem of the Mormon teaching of the eternal progression in light of the perfection and necessary atemporality of God.

 

[mfbukowski]

LOOK who hasn’t been paying any attention, whatsoever.

You know I really thought you were interested in dialogue, but you came back with some zingers, so I gave up.

 

[MelanieAnne]

There are some elements within Mormonism that are positive. That doesn’t make the faith true. Mormons are not Christian in the same sense as Trinitarian Christianity because their view of the Godhead is radically different.

Why so many Mormons blur the distinction between their view of the nature of the Godhead and that of other faiths is unknown. Perhaps it is simple ignorance, Perhaps it is deliberate deception. Perhaps it is something else. My experience with most Mormons (none of whom post to this forum) is that they know little or nothing of other faiths and have little if any curiosity about them. They may be unaware of the vast differences between Mormonism and mainstream Christian faiths. If they are not aware of the differences they certainly would be incapable of articulating them. Nevertheless huge differences are there.

It may be hurtful to Mormons, now that they are looking for acceptance as “mainstream” to be called non-Christian. There are elements of Christianity within their faith. But it is also completely accurate to assert that they are not Christian in the same sense as other Christian faiths. To pretend otherwise is, at best, naive.

 

[mfbukowski]

Mormons believe in a multiplicity of gods.

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

2 Ne.

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the away; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen

3 Ne. 11:
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

Morm. 7: 7
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

And there are others I didn’t have time to post

 

[mfbukowski]

It may be hurtful to Mormons, now that they are looking for acceptance as “mainstream” to be called non-Christian. There are elements of Christianity within their faith. But it is also completely accurate to assert that they are not Christian in the same sense as other Christian faiths. To pretend otherwise is, at best, naive.

I care nothing with being mainstream when mainstream is incorrect.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I care nothing with being mainstream when mainstream is incorrect.

Perhaps not.

You, however, do not represent the entirety of Mormonism which has been trying to appear “mainstream” for quite some time now.

Sheesh Bukowski!

 

[1holycatholic]

And there are others I didn’t have time to post

Like this?

Joseph Smith:
“I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.”

Answer the problem of the Mormon teaching of the existence of Gods and the logical impossibility of the existence of more or less than one God.

Answer the problem of the Mormon teaching of the eternal progression in light of the perfection and necessary atemporality of God.

 

[Jea9]

I guarantee you that you were NEVER taught that Jesus was Michael.

Again, would you like the names of those that taught me these things? I’ll be more than happy to send them along to you…but please do NOT call me a liar. You know, you’re the 3rd Mormon on this site to do that, is it ‘when in doubt, tell them they’re lying’? Hmmm…I wonder if that’s taught at the MTC…

 

[MelanieAnne]

Name calling is contrary to forum rules ~ the rules that everyone agreed to abide by when registering to participate in the forum. An intellectual disagreement is one thing. Calling someone a liar is another. It’s a ticket to suspension/banishment.

 

[RebeccaJ]

And there are others I didn’t have time to post

Aren’t those the passages I posted?

I believe that I, and others on this forum, have recognized the the BoM has Trinitarian elements.

The BoM is not the end of your beliefs. If it were, it is possible that Mormonism would have retained an understanding and belief in the One True God.

As it is, you have the Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine & Covenants. Plus, the teachings of every prophet and everything that is still taught to every member, unbaptized child, and prospective convert.

Three Gods. Separate personages. Other gods of untold name and number (the council of gods).

This is not the Trinity.

 

[Arandur]

Especially since the only possible reasons to deny us the use of the title are all unworthy of Christian folks; discrimination, bias, bigotry, setting people up for persecution, like that.

No, Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, present doctrinal reasons. That you don’t like them doesn’t make them “discrimination, bias, bigotry, or setting people up for persecution.” As I have explained, by the cultural definition, you’re Christians. If we’re talking more precisely about Christians as those who are properly baptized into Christ (a narrower definition used sometimes by Catholics and other Christians), then you are not. That is a reason entirely apart from the malice that you suggest.

As I have mentioned before, history has shown us that EVERY SINGLE TIME one Christian group decides that another group is ‘not Christian,’ it is for the purpose of making that group ‘lesser…’ and making it OK to hate.

Mentioned but not proved. Specifically, do most Christians in America today consider Jews, Buddhists, Agnostics, or Muslims “lesser” because they are not Christian? Do we hate them? Do you (for surely you don’t consider them Christian)? Any of those are exceptions to what you have explained. What about televangelists and their followers?

 

[dianaiad]

There are some elements within Mormonism that are positive. That doesn’t make the faith true. Mormons are not Christian in the same sense as Trinitarian Christianity because their view of the Godhead is radically different.

Why so many Mormons blur the distinction between their view of the nature of the Godhead and that of other faiths is unknown. Perhaps it is simple ignorance, Perhaps it is deliberate deception. Perhaps it is something else. My experience with most Mormons (none of whom post to this forum)

I’m trying to wrap my mind around that one. Do you mean that any Mormon who posts here is automatically not one of 'most Mormons?" or do you mean that most Mormons don’t post here?

If it is the first, then there can’t be a more classic ‘true Scott’ fallacy on the planet. If it is the second, well, yeah…given that there are 13 or 14 million of us, it can be safely said that most Mormons don’t post here. Not that it means anything one way or another, I was just intrigued.

is that they know little or nothing of other faiths and have little if any curiosity about them.

Well, I can answer that one. the REASON they know little or nothing of other faiths and have little if any curiosity about them is simple: Nobody will tell us.

As soon as a member of another religion finds out that we are Mormons, the conversation derails:

Mormon: “what do you think about (insert religious topic here)?”

Other guy: “Well, I’m a Christian what church do you go to?”

**Mormon: **“I’m Christian too; I’m Mormon (or LDS )”

Other guy: (Pick one of the following comments) “Mormons aren’t Christians!” “Well, YOU believe this and WE don’t.”

Mormon (if he’s new to the game or in the mood for some conflict) “Yes we are too Christians” (and off they go…and the Mormon doesn’t get to learn a thing about what the other guy believes) : “Well, we don’t believe that either; we believe this…”

Other guy: YES you do! (pulls out quote by some obscure Mormon, generally taken out of context, or some quote by Ed Decker or someone like that)

Mormon: (sigh)

Never fails.

The other option, of course, is to lie when the Other Guy asks what religion we belong to. Most of us would rather not do that, even if that’s the only way to get over the problem of "whatever you believe, we don’t’ version of things.

So do I know what the Baptists believe, or the Lutherans or Quakers or Catholics believe? I’m getting there, but I sure have to go around the mulberry bush to find out.

Most of us, having gone this route too many times already, just give up and get on with our lives.

They may be unaware of the vast differences between Mormonism and mainstream Christian faiths. If they are not aware of the differences they certainly would be incapable of articulating them. Nevertheless huge differences are there.

It may be hurtful to Mormons, now that they are looking for acceptance as “mainstream” to be called non-Christian

“Hurtful?” Nah. It’s business as usual. Unless you are talking about ‘hurtful’ physically. That’s the problem here; we are too well aware of the motives behind the action of excluding us from Christian fellowship. We know that there is nothing positive, well meaning or of Christian aid there. AT all.

. There are elements of Christianity within their faith. But it is also completely accurate to assert that they are not Christian in the same sense as other Christian faiths. To pretend otherwise is, at best, naive.

“Christian in the same sense?” Of course not. We are Christian in the same sense that everybody else is; we base our faith around Jesus Christ. That’s it. We are not Catholic. We are not Protestant. We don’t pretend to be or want to be.

But we are Christians.