Is Mormonism Christian ?

[look3467]

Reference to #240 post by dianaiad

Not all of the words of the OT prophets were predictions. In fact, most of them were histories and instructions from God to those people who were alive and paying attention at the time.>>> dianaiad
Agreed!
Therefore, you are demanding that God, Who has never BEEN silent, should be silent now in order to be God?>>>dianaiad

No, God speaks through each one of us that is, if we are walking with Him.
God spoke using these words: Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
…”these last days” ends with the crucifixion of Jesus, and begins with the comforter, which has omnipresence, able to abide in many hearts, speak through them as members of the heavenly kingdom.

Therefore, today only, we have : 1Cr 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
If one notices, apart from the Apostles the rest are as what we perceive them to be.

Meaning that it is an open subject and practiced as perceived.
Now, if any good come out of any of these, then it is ordained by God, but if not, then it is a false man made assumption.

I for one declare here and now that the bible is the absolute source for Gods message to mankind.

The Book of Mormon, (Mormon bible) the new world translation (Jehovah’s Witness bible) and the Koran (Muslim) to me are good books as far as the spirit of God is guiding the soul that tries to do good by them.
But when radicalism becomes the guide (even in the use of the bible are radicals), people become divided, people are hurt and love is but an illusion.
So all we have of Him we have because revelation continued after His death, resurrection AND ascension…>>> dianaiad
Revelation via the Holy Spirit.
We must judge though, test he spirit of a message whether it come from God or is of man. 1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
I am not one taken by just any supposed messages, revelations given by mankind, unless I first compare them to the whole of Gods theme, or are in accordance with His will.
Love, Godly love, is the standard by which all messages and messengers are measured against.

Pace>>>AJ

 

[1holycatholic]

Prophets write scripture. They write scripture because a prophet receives revelation from God, and revelation from God is the Word of God–and by definition, scripture.

It’s not an ‘additional quality that some prophets have.’ It’s the definition of scripture; the word of God that someone writes down because God told him to…and that ‘telling’ makes him a prophet.

by definition.

Therefore, if there has been revelation since the last apostle died, then there has been scripture written. Where is it?

Conversely, if there has been no scripture written, then whatever WAS written doesn’t reach the level of scripture–and is then not revelation. By definition.

It is a problem.

Revelation: Public and Private

 

[1holycatholic]

I for one declare here and now that the bible is the absolute source for Gods message to mankind.

Since the Bible doesn’t state that, why would you?

 

[MDK]

So you say.

But if so, you believe in a different God than the rest of “Christianity” as well as a different Jesus.

Mormons use the same “language” to speak of entirely different things. Some might consider the use of the same terms to mean something else DECEPTIVE. At the very least, once the definition of the Godhead is changed, as it has been in Mormonism, the Mormon faith has clearly abandoned any claim to Christianity. Indeed, since Mormons neither worship nor pray to Jesus Christ, it is a mystery as to WHY they would fuss over the term “Christian”. Mormonism is not a Christ-centered faith. Why fuss over the term “Christian”?

Mormons are NOT Christian. They can claim the are so as much as they want. It does not change the reality.

It is a fact that for a very long time, starting with the beginning of the sect, Mormons sought to distance themselves from other faiths. It is only recently that they have tried to appear more “mainstream”. If you cannot recognize this, it does not change the facts. Mormons are not Christian. Their doctrine is not Christian.

Reality is the key. What is the ultimate reality?

God is the ultimate reality. He is the I Am! There is no greater reality. He is the one from whom all good things come.

What is insanity? It is to be out of touch with reality!

We know that there is one God in three Persons. This is Who God is. Any other attempted definition is out of touch with reality, or in blunt words, insane.

 

[MDK]

…I for one declare here and now that the bible is the absolute source for Gods message to mankind…

Pace>>>AJ

Do you believe in the infallibility of the entity who brought you the Bible, or was it just blind luck somehow? In other words, could an entity that was not protected from error by the Holy Spirit, select which texts were inspired to deem as Scriptures to put into the Bible, and which non-inspired texts to leave out?

This same entity will tell you that Mormonism is not Christian.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Prophets write scripture. They write scripture because a prophet receives revelation from God, and revelation from God is the Word of God–and by definition, scripture.

It’s not an ‘additional quality that some prophets have.’ It’s the definition of scripture; the word of God that someone writes down because God told him to…and that ‘telling’ makes him a prophet.

by definition.

Therefore, if there has been revelation since the last apostle died, then there has been scripture written. Where is it?

Conversely, if there has been no scripture written, then whatever WAS written doesn’t reach the level of scripture–and is then not revelation. By definition.

It is a problem.

Where are the scriptures associated to every one of your prophets since Smith?

 

[tundramom]

So. In conclusion,

Mormons aren’t Christian. They claim to be, but their definition is distorted because they fail to recognize the Trinity–the central core of Christianity.

Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God, but was a religious leader who distanced himself and his followers from Christianity.

In the past, Mormons have rejoiced in their differences from Christianity. Today, they claim they are by redefining terms thereby making their heresy more palatable to the unknowing.

in Christ
Steph

 

[1holycatholic]

Where are the scriptures associated to every one of your prophets since Smith?

uch:

 

[MomblessedX3]

This is a great thread. At this point I don’t have anything to contribute but I wanted to subscribe to it.

 

[dianaiad]

ok dianaiad…I know I’m behind and I couldn’t get through this whole thread to see if this was addressed again, sorry . I just want to say that I am a former-Mormon and that there were some things that were left out during my lessons with the missionaries and the other 3-4 weeks of teaching I received. Along with the entire year that I was a FAITHFUL Mormon (read the BoM, Pearl of Great Price and D&C twice…always attended church, etc.). I was FLAT-OUT lied to by those that ‘cared about me’ and ‘taught me’ when I asked about the becoming like gods thing. By one person I was told that ‘no way, wow that would be neat…’ and the other I was told ‘it’s not EXACTLY like that…’. I was told that Mormons believe that Jesus was the archangel Michael and that this is his spirit name.

No, that is the Jehovah’s Witnesses. You have us confused. We believe, and teach, that Jesus is the Jehovah of the OT; that He was God before His physical birth. Whoever told you that Jesus was Michael was seriously screwed up–or not LDS.

As for the ‘become gods’ thing…that’s a ‘mystery’ (the theological meaning, not the detective/secret meaning) we believe that we will be 'heirs and joint heirs with Christ and have all that he has" and follow that to wherever it leads; hence the famous couplet “as man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.”

Was not Christ man? Are we not to be ‘heirs and joint-heirs’ with Christ?

But we do not believe that we can be Gods of our own planets. That would be a bit difficult, seeing that all the planets of the universe are taken–by the One Who Created the whole thing.

And yes, if you want to know I WILL tell you my ward and who my bishop was. I never went to the Temple because God made some pretty amazing things happen to stop me (talking a MAJOR snow storm…twice…when I was meant to go).

Again, sorry if this was re-addressed later, I only made it to about page 11 and didn’t see it. I normally don’t respond because there are many more ex-Mormons that are more knowledgable than I…Rebecca for one

Perhaps Rebecca does know more than you do, but if she claims that Mormons teach that Jesus is Michael, then she knows considerably less than she should.

That’s not a slam, it’s simply fact. We do not now, nor have we ever in any publication or class, taught that Jesus was Michael. Again, that’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who would be shocked at a comparison between us.

However, I certainly have no reason to doubt that you were LDS. Jake, on the other hand, definitely raised my “detector bars.” He has refused to answer even one of those very simple questions that you volunteered the answers to. Had he ever truly been LDS, it would have taken him, what–30 seconds? Had he done so, I would have looked foolish and paranoid, somewhat vindictive, even; he would have proven his bona fides to all in here.

I took a small risk in demanding the answers to those questions and calling him on his claim…except of course that it was pretty obvious that he was lying through his teeth.

(shrug) It is, unfortunately, one of the more common anti (insert belief system here) tactics; claim to have once been a member to bolster one’s own credibility with people who also dislike that particular belief system. I’ve seen it done with Catholics and other faiths, as well.

 

[dianaiad]

So you say.

But if so, you believe in a different God than the rest of “Christianity” as well as a different Jesus.

Since when is salvation a popularity contest?

Mormons use the same “language” to speak of entirely different things. Some might consider the use of the same terms to mean something else DECEPTIVE. At the very least, once the definition of the Godhead is changed, as it has been in Mormonism, the Mormon faith has clearly abandoned any claim to Christianity. Indeed, since Mormons neither worship nor pray to Jesus Christ, it is a mystery as to WHY they would fuss over the term “Christian”. Mormonism is not a Christ-centered faith. Why fuss over the term “Christian”?

Because we are interested in truth, not popularity contests.It does not matter how many people want to deny the FACT that our faith is Christ-centered. It remains Christ-centered.

In fact, I need to ask you the same question: given the reason most people, historically, have refused the title ‘Christian’ to others, why are YOU ‘fussing’ over the term? After all, what do you lose by admitting that Mormons believe in Jesus the Christ, and follow His teachings as we believe them to be? Are you hurt thereby? Is your salvation at risk? Are you in physical danger by admitting this?

Now consider the opposite: look really hard at history and see what happens to those groups that are kicked out of the ‘Christian’ camp.

THAT is why we “fuss.” First, (and most important) because we value truth; we know we are Christians. We would be lying if we let you have your way and agreed with you that we were not. We do not insist that you cease describing yourselves as Christian just because we think you believe incorrect things about Him.

Second–take a long look at history. The first thing any Christian group does before it starts treating people as less than human is to deny them fellowship as Christians.

Now ask yourself if you have the definition of “Christian” right. What do you think it means? Write it down. Then go look at a dictionary, ANY dictionary, and match your definition with that one. Since it will not, ask yourself why we, who don’t agree with everything you believe about Christ, should have to agree with your decree that we are not Christian.

That makes NO sense.

Mormons are NOT Christian. They can claim the are so as much as they want. It does not change the reality.

It is a fact that for a very long time, starting with the beginning of the sect, Mormons sought to distance themselves from other faiths. It is only recently that they have tried to appear more “mainstream”. If you cannot recognize this, it does not change the facts. Mormons are not Christian. Their doctrine is not Christian.

Of course we are different. Although, quite frankly, the ‘distancing’ was far more often from the other side and at the point of a gun.

That, however, does not make us ‘not Christian.’ It simply makes us different.

 

[mfbukowski]

Revelation would result in more scripture being written; isn’t that what scripture IS, after all–the recording of revelation by those who receive it? So if there was no more scripture being written, then either there was no more revelation being received–or nobody thought it was important enough to write down. Either one seems problematic to me.

My argument isn’t that it is necessary….my argument is that continuing revelation was going on after the death and resurrection of Jesus; it’s why we have scripture telling us about Him at all. My question is…since there was continued revelation, then…why did it STOP?

***Where in the scriptures, anywhere at all, does it say that such revelation as produced scripture would stop?

If there is no such mention, no such promise–then why did it? WE claim that it stopped, not because it was supposed to, but rather because people no longer listened to it or wrote it down. The apostasy. ***

This is an excellent point and the core issue.

Why did it stop?

And most here make the point that the Catholic church gave us the bible. This is true in one sense. They passed on some of what they had in manuscripts.

But it was their “definition” and limitation of continued revelation that killed the rest of the bible that we now do NOT have.

It was the apostasy that stopped continuing revelation.

 

[mfbukowski]

Can’t we all just get along? Can’t you just be a Mormon and leave the term Christian to those who indeed are?

Unbelievable.

“Can’t we all just get along?”

Sure abandon my position and then you will get along with me just fine won’t you?

This is like the Palestinians saying to the Israelis “Can’t we just get along? Abandon your country and everything will be fine”

Not likely.

 

[look3467]

Since the Bible doesn’t state that, why would you? >>>1holycatholic

Is it not a God given choice? After all, is it not the fruit of a tree that I chose to eat form?

Have you not eaten of that same tree to?

Because of the knowledge I’ve gained from the “tree of life” I chose to place all my eggs into one basket, that one basket is in the Jesus of the bible.

The bible tells me all I need to know once I give place in my heart to Jesus.

When that happens, my spirit is born again from the dead, alive forever more.

Are you born again yet? And if you are, how do you know?

“Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so”.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[zaffiroborant]

I was told that Mormons believe that Jesus was the archangel Michael and that this is his spirit name.

I think it was Adam who was supposed to be the Archangel Michael.

 

[look3467]

Do you believe in the infallibility of the entity who brought you the Bible, or was it just blind luck somehow? In other words, could an entity that was not protected from error by the Holy Spirit, select which texts were inspired to deem as Scriptures to put into the Bible, and which non-inspired texts to leave out?

Friend, I believe in the infallibility of the spirit of the word, not the word itself, for the words of man were spiritually inspired.

Which means, that unless the spirit behind those words gives revelation, the words as written do not have life.

The Catholic Church is but an instrument in His hands by which His words were compiled into one book.

The heart is not transformed by the Catholic Church, the Mormon church or any other church, but only Christ can do the transforming to whomever it chooses.

An Atheist can read the bible and get nothing from it because God’s spirit has not touched hat person soul.

If that same person had faith as little as a mustard seed, God would reveal Him self to him.(The word of Life)

This same entity will tell you that Mormonism is not Christian.>>>MDK

If I judge the soul of that Mormon person, I place my self as God, for only He can judge the soul of which ever it is.

His command to me is to love them and He will stir their hearts
to liberty, as I am.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Wouldn’t you think that this would be an essential truth of not only defining who is Christian, but to go even further, who CHRIST is??? Coz saying that you believe in Christ is fine and dandy, but which Christ are you talking about? The Christ as revealed in John 1 (“I AM”) or the one that Mormon’s believe is Christ?

One requirement is needed to be an unbeliever: 1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You be the judge.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

This is a great thread. At this point I don’t have anything to contribute but I wanted to subscribe to it.

Welcome to the discussion.
If you can find a common bond between all of us, you will have found the true meaning of God’s love.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mfbukowski]

I submit that the very warnings against false prophets is proof that there was supposed to be continuing revelation; why warn against falsity if there wasn’t supposed to be truth?

Wouldn’t it make more sense just to say “don’t pay any attention to anybody, because their ain’t gonna be any more?”

But nobody wrote that. Hmmn…

So…it stopped. I think everybody pretty much agrees on that one. The question is, why?

Your claim seems to be that there was no more need of it.
Ours is that there was this apostasy–and nobody was actually listening.

The side you come down on is one of the determining factors as to what religion you belong to.

Another great post.

Why the admonition against false prophets if there were to be no true prophets?

And Paul’s admonition against those who preach “another gospel” other than the one he preached? Obviously those who preached the same gospel were excluded from the admonition – implying that he expected that **others would come who preached the same gospel.
** (ie: he expected that revelation could continue)

 

[RebeccaJ]

Perhaps Rebecca does know more than you do, but if she claims that Mormons teach that Jesus is Michael, then she knows considerably less than she should.

That’s not a slam, it’s simply fact. We do not now, nor have we ever in any publication or class, taught that Jesus was Michael. Again, that’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who would be shocked at a comparison between us.

I never said Jesus was anyone, but Jesus.

Brigham Young, however, taught that Adam was God.