Is Muhammad in the Bible?

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So Jesus didn’t say that, and in fact we have to interpret it as the Father and not Jesus.
I can see that John did told us more than Jesus did to say about himself or God while he is neither a direct Apostle of Jesus or even interpreted as the Advocate.
So he can be nothing but the false prophet from the antichrist family or the antichrist himself referring to Jesus.
Did you really just call John, the writer of THE GOSPEL OF JOHN, an anti-Christ??

LMFAO! I have never heard anything more ridiculous in my life. Literally. I think this might be the most absurd claim I’ve ever heard, and I’ve been on here quite a while.

Beyond that, I honestly can’t follow your post. I’m going to assume English isn’t your first language. You seem to be implying that everyone existed in some sort of pre-creation, which is an absurd notion. If they exist and are not eternal, they have been created. Period. To claim otherwise is a logical contradiction. There can be no none-eternal existence prior to its creation.

No matter what you may try to claim, the fact of the matter is that the Jews of Jesus’ time CLEARLY understood Him to be committing blasphemy. Given what He said, literally the only thing in that statements which could be considered blasphemous is the “I AM” bit.

You can claim this wasn’t actually said all you want, you can claim it was added later all you want, but you have absolutely no evidence for that assertion other than the rantings of a warlord, four centuries after the event took place. That is hardly a strong foundation for making a claim.

Sorry, I’m done. You honestly just called one of the Gospel writers an anti-Christ, so I am no longer able to take you seriously. I pray for your sake that you are able to free yourself from the ramblings of your so-called prophet.
 
There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that through him everyone might believe. 8He himself was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. "
I need to understand what that means for sake of God!
And truly i wasn’t meaning “John the Apostle” literally but the antichrist that made from him a messenger of God Just probably to prove he is the Advocate or whatever.(As in Islam those guys the true Apostles of Jesus was granted heaven (Paradise) for sure, according to Koran.
So i believe John is not the writer for 100%, as :
The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90, and John AD 90–110. Despite the traditional ascriptions all four are anonymous, and none were written by eyewitnesses. Like the rest of the New Testament, they were written in Greek.
But to make it easy for you, they will tell you that the books was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit , but none of the writers will be mentioned (who published and wrote that book John between AD 90–110, is it John? , and where is the original book of John then if the book is already made by him and preserved etc…???
 
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The gospels were passed down orally from apostle to apprentice, and the apprentices wrote the gospels down. Furthermore, St. John of the Gospel never claimed to be the Advocate you speak of, just that he would write a testimony of Jesus Christ so that others might believe.
This is Book of Genesis and referring to the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh) and the Old Testament.
No, that’s definitely the Gospel of John and it’s referring to the Word (which was made flesh, in Jesus).
So Jesus didn’t say that, and in fact we have to interpret it as the Father and not Jesus.
No we do not. Why do you think we have to think that verse refers to the Father?
"Yes Jesus is the word from God the word that you just mentioned in the very opening of Luke.(So if he came from the word of God that was God or God’s will), then he was existing and everybody was existent in the world of “pre-creation”
*But not only that, Jesus is a special soul “Holy spirit” may truly existed for sure before Abraham, until that soul sent from God to Mary to give born to Jesus as a human being.
Any reason we should believe that all people existed before their conception? Also, you said Jesus wasn’t the Word earlier. Which is it?
Yes Jesus is the Messiah , but son of God is an added word i can prove it if you want just in 1 minute.(as that happened many times from version to another they changed the word Messiah to Messiah son of living God etc)
We need proof that the Gospels have been tampered with.
So better to understand Father as the one true God; Holy spirit the spirit that came from God, and the word of God as the will of God “God says for anything be and it is”
After that give any contradiction that actually can still exist in any bible that makes Christians confused about the religion and God.
Jesus cannot be the Word if Islam is true. The Word is God.
No he didn’t , and the misinterpretation is true not in all bible but specially in some spots where they clearly change for example Messiah to Messiah the son of the living God , this actually enough to prove misinterpretation made by some authors of some bible versions even if you find one bible that didn’t used same definition that should be misinterpretation and misquotation as well.
Can you provide any evidence that the Trinity is a misconception?
 
**Luke:
One day as Jesus was praying in private and the disciples were with Him, He questioned them: “Who do the crowds say I am?”

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that a prophet of old has arisen.”

“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Peter answered, “The Christ of God.”
**In Mathew version, they will distort the same sentence to :
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Also the “Who do the crowds say I am?” has been changed to:
“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
So clearly we should remove from the Bible the words like those ones that are changed to other interpreted words and not the original translated words. (And mainly used to prove Jesus PBUH is God)

While we can clearly find mainly words like :
Am going to the one who sent me…
The true one God…
My father and my God as well as your Father and your God…
25 I have spoken these things to you in figures of speech. A time is coming when>>I will no longer speak to you this way<<, but >>1will tell you plainly about the Father<<. 26In that day you will ask in my name. >>I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf<<. 27For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved me and >>have believed that I came from God
So means clearly Jesus will only talk about God the true one God after his return to earth and not in same figure of speech he used already (father/son).

Muslims do not have to prove their Holy Book and that’s the true direct words of God, or to defend Bible as multiple books referring to Jesus and his Apostles from many sources (In Islam they will only prove Sunna with a strong chain and a strong checking mechanism. to prove similar books to Bibles called Hadith and they arranged them into 3 levels of accuracy)

That’s easily because God is proclaiming those words his own words and God himself is defending his book and challenging Mankind including any possible help of unseen creatures like devils or whatever and aid of software and technology if you want, Magic or whatever!..
To do what? to create one single chapter like Koran. then Koran is proved not from God!!!
If you can prove a mistake in Koran or one contradiction clearly and not just claims!! also you have proved the same

But to be honest only the first one was the direct claim from God to check if Koran is words of the Mighty God or not ((to make alike Koran/ 10 chapters of like Koran/1 chapter! of like Koran)), but also the second challenge is valid as well.
So if i found 1 contradiction in bible just by coincidence! can you give me one contradiction by digging for years and years in Koran??
So we need to be honest so we can get to a common ground and full respect of each other.
 
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Or, both are correct, but only one allows false teachers to bastardize the Gospel and claim that Jesus isn’t God.
 
Muslims do not have to prove their Holy Book and that’s the true direct words of God, or to defend Bible as multiple books referring to Jesus and his Apostles from many sources (In Islam they will only prove Sunna with a strong chain and a strong checking mechanism. to prove similar books to Bibles called Hadith and they arranged them into 3 levels of accuracy)

That’s easily because God is proclaiming those words his own words and God himself is defending his book and challenging Mankind including any possible help of unseen creatures like devils or whatever and aid of software and technology if you want, Magic or whatever!..
To do what? to create one single chapter like Koran. then Koran is proved not from God!!!
If you can prove a mistake in Koran or one contradiction clearly and not just claims!! also you have proved the same

But to be honest only the first one was the direct claim from God to check if Koran is words of the Mighty God or not ((to make alike Koran/ 10 chapters of like Koran/1 chapter! of like Koran)), but also the second challenge is valid as well.
So if i found 1 contradiction in bible just by coincidence! can you give me one contradiction by digging for years and years in Koran??
So we need to be honest so we can get to a common ground and full respect of each other.
By the way If Koran is 100% true and precise this doesn’t mean we have to reject other books of God but to know how we should interpret some verses at least!
 
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that claimed that isn’t?
I am not sure what you mean by that?
There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John. He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that through him everyone might believe. He himself was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
Yes this is about John the Baptist.
So Jesus wasn’t enough and that’s why John is witness?
John came before Jesus, to prepare Israel to receive Him. John announced Him to the people before John was put to death.
isn’t that a clear exploitation of the Advocate that didn’t came until Prophet Muhammad came and fulfilled Christ professes?
I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to ask here. Catholics consider the Advocate to be the Holy Spirit, who was given to the Church after both John the Baptist and Jesus were put to death.

The Prophet Mohammed only fulfilled Jesus prophesy by pointing people to someone other than Jesus.
 
Muslims do not have to prove their Holy Book and that’s the true direct words of God
Yeah, you do. The Koran is just paper and scribblings unless you can prove that it isn’t.

Differences in language aren’t contradictions. Differences in teaching are. Find a real difference in teaching, then i’ll listen.
 
It’s up to you to prove words of Koran are not from God as i and you can produce 1 chapter of any other book claiming to be Holy.(at least because you do not have any original version of the Gospel or Torah)
For contradictions in Bibles that was already done hundreds of times…
Do you mean: Christ of God is same as Christ the son of the living God???
and who the “son of man” is? is equal to who i am?
 
Nice try. Burden of proof lies on the claimant. Now, you have to also prove that there’s other true gospels and Jewish texts.
 
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So Jesus didn’t say that, and in fact we have to interpret it as the Father and not Jesus.
No, Jesus did not say these words:

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

These words were written by John the Evangelist, as disciple of Jesus. Jesus is referred to as the “Word” or the Logos, and existed with God the Father and the Holy Spirit prior to coming to earth as Jesus.
This is Book of Genesis and referring to the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh) and the Old Testament.
No, this passage is not from the Hebrew bible. It is from the Gospel of John in the New Testament.
I can see that John did told us more than Jesus did to say about himself or God while he is neither a direct Apostle of Jesus or even interpreted as the Advocate.
Jesus had plenty to say about Himself as God. These sayings were recorded in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Jesus did not write any books. John the Evangelist was an Apostle of Jesus.

I am not sure who you are referencing or what you mean by “Advocate”. When Catholics talk about the Advocate, we mean the Holy Spirit.
So he can be nothing but the false prophet from the antichrist family or the antichrist himself referring to Jesus.
It seems like you are confused. John the Evangelist was a disciple of Jesus, and was known as the “one that Jesus loved”.
So what i saw in (Malachi 3:1-5) that actually John wanted to be interpreted as the Advocate himself "There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that through him everyone might believe. 8He himself was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. "
This passage is not from the book of Malachi. The Apostle John deliberately did not put his name on His gospel, so as not to draw attention to himself.

This passage you have quoted here is from his Gospel, and is describing John the Baptist. Perhaps you have your “Johns” mixed up?
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.
This is one example of Jesus telling the people that He is God.
So if he came from the word of God that was God or God’s will, then he was existing and everybody was existent in the world of “pre-creation”
Jesus was, in the beginning, with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit before the creation of the universe.
Yes Jesus is the Messiah , but son of God is an added word
Jesus is the Messiah, and the Second person of the Trinity, God the Son.
 
Thank you man you have now clarified to me that you are talking about a prophet of God that was actually sent according to Koran and i love this man so much! his true name is Yahya !!!

Mentioned in Koran as the son of Zechariah(Chapter Al Imran* which means the family of which includes Imran, Saint Anne , Mary, and Jesus, Zechariah, John…)
(37) So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance and caused her to grow in a good manner and put her in the care of Zechariah. Every time Zechariah entered upon her in the prayer chamber, he found with her provision. He said, “O Mary, from where is this [coming] to you?” She said, “It is from Allah. Indeed, Allah provides for whom He wills without account.”
(38) At that, Zechariah called upon his Lord, saying, “My Lord, grant me from Yourself a good offspring. Indeed, You are the Hearer of supplication.”
(39) So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber, “Indeed, Allah gives you good tidings of John, confirming a word from Allah and [who will be] honorable, abstaining [from women], and a prophet from among the righteous.”
(40) He said, “My Lord, how will I have a boy when I have reached old age and my wife is barren?” The angel said, “Such is Allah; He does what He wills.”
(41) He said, “My Lord, make for me a sign.” He Said, “Your sign is that you will not [be able to] speak to the people for three days except by gesture. And remember your Lord much and exalt [Him with praise] in the evening and the morning.”

(12) [Allah] said, “O John, take the Scripture with determination.” And We gave him judgement [while yet] a boy
(13) And affection from Us and purity, and he was fearing of Allah
(14) And dutiful to his parents, and he was not a disobedient tyrant.
(15) And peace be upon him the day he was born and the day he dies and the day he is raised alive.
(16) And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.
(17) And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.
(18) She said, “Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah.”
(19) He said, “I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy.”
(20) She said, “How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?”
(21) He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.’ "
(22) So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.
(23) And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, “Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten.”
(24) But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
(25) And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.
Al Imran Link
 
and the word of God as the will of God “God says for anything be and it is”
For Christians, God the Son (Jesus) is the one through whom all was created. He is a person, not just “the will of God”.
[ Did Jesus Claim to be God ]
No he didn’t
You may not be able to accept that He claimed this, and that is fine, but He claimed this on more than one occasion.
not in all bible
Where your argument fails utterly is that you seem to think that we believe this because of what is written in the Bible. However, this is the faith of the Church that was delivered to us by the Apostles. This fact was known to the Church before a single word of the New Testament was ever written.
And truly i wasn’t meaning “John the Apostle” literally but the antichrist that made from him a messenger of God Just probably to prove he is the Advocate or whatever .
The antichrist denies Jesus. The antichrist is not a “messenger of God”. I don’t know what you mean by “the Advocate” but this term is not used by Christians to refer to the antichrist or to the Apostles.
(As in Islam those guys the true Apostles of Jesus was granted heaven (Paradise) for sure, according to Koran.
Wouldn’t that rule out that any of them were 'antichrist"?
So i believe John is not the writer for 100%, as :
The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90, and John AD 90–110. Despite the traditional ascriptions all four are anonymous, and none were written by eyewitnesses. Like the rest of the New Testament, they were written in Greek.
None of this information rules out that John the Evangelist wrote his Gospel.
But to make it easy for you, they will tell you that the books was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit , but none of the writers will be mentioned (who published and wrote that book John between AD 90–110, is it John? , and where is the original book of John then if the book is already made by him and preserved etc…???
The fact that all these books are inspired by the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with “making it easier for us”. The books were written by, for, and about Catholics. They were preserved, promulgated and canonized by Catholics. This is why the Catholic Church knows who are the authors.
 
In Mathew version, they will distort the same sentence to :
This is not a distortion. It is two different reports of the same event. When different people tell a story, they remember different details.
Also the “Who do the crowds say I am?” has been changed to:
It has not been “changed”. These accounts are not based upon each other. They are written by two different authors.
So clearly we should remove from the Bible the words like those ones that are changed to other interpreted words and not the original translated words. (And mainly used to prove Jesus PBUH is God)
No, we do not “remove” any of the inspired text. The whole entirely of it is inerrant. You may wish to remove these references because you want to deny that Jesus is God, claimed He was God, and was testified to be God by His apostles. This is the faith of the Church, and existed before any of these books were written. What is written reflects what Jesus taught.
So means clearly Jesus will only talk about God the true one God after his return to earth and not in same figure of speech he used already (father/son).
No. Jesus talked a great deal about God the Father before He ascended. He did this using parables and directly instructing the people.
Muslims do not have to prove their Holy Book
Catholics are not “people of the book”, so proofs from the book are not complimentary, not “proofs”.
then Koran is proved not from God!!!
Out of your mouth…or your keyboard!
But to be honest only the first one was the direct claim from God to check if Koran is words of the Mighty God
Christian faith is not dependent upon the Koran, so it is not particularly useful to try prove the claims of Christianity by its pages.
So we need to be honest so we can get to a common ground and full respect of each other.
It sounds like your idea of “common ground” is for us to take out parts of the Bible that do not support your views!
 
And are you going to tell God that in day of judgement?the Catholic Church knows who are the authors? but Koran is not enough? even we couldn’t Lord look at it and check it and prove whether it’s your words or not! You know we are not Arabs! …But were you Jews? or did i sent any book in other languages than Aramaic and Arabic?
That what makes sense to me to have strong proof and not to have what my fathers, church fathers said to me or history or non original Books.
 
You’re grasping at straws. Prove that the Koran is anything more than fiction. Prove that the Bible has been corrupted.
 
By the way If Koran is 100% true and precise this doesn’t mean we have to reject other books of God but to know how we should interpret some verses at least!
Yes. IF the Koran is 100% true and precise, then we have to reject the Christian Bible, or do some sort of mental gymnastics to interpret it so that the Koran can be right, since the contradict each other.

Catholics believe that God does not contradict Himself, so both of them cannot be “100% true and precise”.
It’s up to you to prove words of Koran are not from God
On the contrary, the burden lies upon the one making the assertion to prove that it is true.
i and you can produce 1 chapter of any other book claiming to be Holy.(at least because you do not have any original version of the Gospel or Torah)
Of course, from your perspective, the Bible must be false, since it contradicts the Koran. Even though it came BEFORE the Koran, one must find a way to debunk the Bible so that Islam can be True.

Fortunately, Catholics are not “people of the book”. Our faith does not emanate from the Scripture, but from the person of Christ. His teachings were whole and entire when they were deposited to the Church, before a word of the New Testament was ever written. The NT is not the Source of our faith, but Jesus, the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity.
For contradictions in Bibles that was already done hundreds of times…
Yes, an irrelevant point, since most of those were not authorized by the Church founded by Christ.
Do you mean: Christ of God is same as Christ the son of the living God???
Yes.
and who the “son of man” is? is equal to who i am?
Yes. Jesus is God.
Thank you man you have now clarified to me that you are talking about a prophet of God that was actually sent according to Koran and i love this man so much! his true name is Yahya !!!
I doubt it. If you equate this person to the antichrist, then no.
 
Mentioned in Koran as the son of Zechariah (Chapter Al Imran* which means the family of which includes Imran, Saint Anne , Mary, and Jesus, Zechariah, John…)
I understand that the Koran tries to justify itself by referencing the Bible.
(41) He said, “My Lord, make for me a sign.” He Said, “Your sign is that you will not [be able to] speak to the people for three days except by gesture. And remember your Lord much and exalt [Him with praise] in the evening and the morning.”
I guess you are saying that this account of events, manufactured some 7 centuries after the fact, is more accurate than the account given by those who were present when the events occurred?
(13) And affection from Us and purity, and he was fearing of Allah
So who are these “Us”? I know Muslims are the children of Ishmael, and believe in the One God, so we can’t be talking about the Trinity revealed by Jesus.
(14) And dutiful to his parents, and he was not a disobedient tyrant.
This verse seems spurious, since tyranny requires secular power and John the Baptist did not have any.
(15) And peace be upon him the day he was born and the day he dies and the day he is raised alive.
So the Koran teaches that John the Baptist was “raised alive”? what does that mean?
(17) And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.
She, Mary the mother of Jesus?
God represented Himself as a 'well proportioned man"? Does the Koran claim that Mary the mother of Jesus rejected Joseph?

From whom did she take the screen? What is the screen?
Who is the “We” from whom the angel was sent?
(23) And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, “Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten.”
Actually, I am glad to read this, since it is so opposite of what was given to us by the Apostles. It is very clear that Muhammad just made up his own version, editing it to fit with his own ideas.
(24) But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
(25) And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.
This sounds closer to an account of Hagar and Ishmael, from whom the Muslim faith arises.
 
And are you going to tell God that in day of judgement?
I am not in a position to tell God anything on the Day of Judgment. I will be throwing myself upon His mercy.
he Catholic Church knows who are the authors?
Yes. The New Testament was written by, for, and about Catholics, and the Church knows who are the authors.
but Koran is not enough?
Evidently it is enough for all Muslims. The Koran is enough to reject the person and work of Christ.
even we couldn’t Lord look at it and check it and prove whether it’s your words or not!
There is no need to do so. I have not claimed to have written any of it.
You know we are not Arabs!
On the contrary, I know very little about you. I do know there are many Muslims who are not Arab. But is is of no matter. Jesus was descended from wandering Arameans, as are the Arabs today. They are the children of Ishmael.
But were you Jews?
Christianity is founded upon Judaism. Jesus, and all of the Apostles were Jews. We are “Messianic Jews” who have received Jesus as the promised Jewish Messiah.
or did i sent any book in other languages than Aramaic and Arabic?
Are you speaking in the voice of Allah?
That what makes sense to me to have strong proof and not to have what my fathers, church fathers said to me or history or non original Books .
I can understand why that makes sense to you, but this was not the plan of God for His Holy Bride, the Church. He revealed Himself to our fathers, and committed to the Church the Holy Writings, which are inspired and inerrant.
 
I am not in a position to tell God anything on the Day of Judgment. I will be throwing myself upon His mercy.
That’s true as no human being could go to Paradise without God’s Mercy;
But do you know that Allah (same name in Aramaic scriptures) mentioned in Koran :
(48) Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.
(49) Have you not seen those who claim themselves to be pure? Rather, Allah purifies whom He wills, and injustice is not done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside a date seed].
(50) Look how they invent about Allah untruth, and sufficient is that as a manifest sin.
(51) Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture, who believe in superstition and false objects of worship and say about the disbelievers, “These are better guided than the believers as to the way”?
Yes. The New Testament was written by, for, and about Catholics, and the Church knows who are the authors.
(34) O you who have believed, indeed many of the scholars and the monks devour the wealth of people unjustly and avert [them] from the way of Allah. And those who hoard gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah - give them tidings of a painful punishment.
(35) The Day when it will be heated in the fire of Hell and seared therewith will be their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, [it will be said], “This is what you hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you used to hoard.”
Evidently it is enough for all Muslims. The Koran is enough to reject the person and work of Christ.
(116) And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?’” He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
(117) I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
(118) If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
(119) Allah will say, “This is the Day when the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness.” For them are gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them, and they with Him. That is the great attainment.
(120) To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is within them. And He is over all things competent.
There is no need to do so. I have not claimed to have written any of it.
Are you Allah or something superior to say that?
 
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