Is Muhammad in the Bible?

[True_One_God]

Part 2

On the contrary, I know very little about you. I do know there are many Muslims who are not Arab. But is is of no matter. Jesus was descended from wandering Arameans, as are the Arabs today. They are the children of Ishmael.

Am talking about people that say Koran is not for us… while only the Koran is the scripture that was sent to all human beings, including a chapter to Jinn beings.

Christianity is founded upon Judaism. Jesus, and all of the Apostles were Jews. We are “Messianic Jews” who have received Jesus as the promised Jewish Messiah.

Did Jesus found Christianity or asked to do so or was he Christian or Jewish by faith? But you have to know that the true followers of Jesus were condemned and rejected and the true believers were very little.

Are you speaking in the voice of Allah?

If you have a strong knowledge of the true God , then you can talk through this knowledge…as Allah made us superior only if we can recognize and believe in the truth and not to follow devils and Satan foot steps.

I can understand why that makes sense to you, but this was not the plan of God for His Holy Bride, the Church. He revealed Himself to our fathers, and committed to the Church the Holy Writings, which are inspired and inerrant.

You cannot believe that as if that God you have in your imagination was true he will preserve the original books(but God preserved books for certain time, then when Koran the last revelation came God will not preserve books specially made for Jews and after being corrupted by them specially for the reason of the non acceptance of Jesus as Messiah and also Muhammad as well as they are waiting for a king to rule the world and make them over other human kind…the corruption and non existence of original books is not a coincidence.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Stop. Using. The. Koran.

Seriously, if you can’t prove that you’re worth listening to, just stop posting. I do not care about the Koran because you can’t given me any reason to care.

 

[Fauken]

Here’s something I’ve never understood about the Quran. The Quran claims that we Christians/ Catholics worship Mary, and that we worship three gods. Except no where does Christianity claim to do either of those things. You will not find a single Catholic document or teaching that says we worship three gods. You will not find a single document or teaching that portrays Mary as a goddess. And yet the Quran, purported to be dictated directly to Muhammad by Allah, gets these two fundamental facts about Catholics wrong, so very wrong. How can that possibly be?

 

[True_One_God]

Power of Koran : contradiction free, being impossible to reproduce , being proclaimed as the final revelation for all creatures of God, being not limited to Jews like was Torah and Gospel,
no books came after, as you confess messiah came, then why the people that received those books still waiting for the “False Messiah” , isn’t enough to stop considering their specific books that lost their original God books, a reason to look to an universal book and study it deeply then make a choice?
You should stop talking about non Holy Books as only Holy Books were only books and words of God and not interpretations and opinions and reporting about Holy books including an absolute belief in ideas without proofs even you cannot prove that from those books/ because you don’t have even translated Gospel at least(not even talking about original Gospel that i believe it was uplifted with Messiah) to make me look at it or even the Aramaic Torah!! So if they are not corrupted why Jews not believing in Jesus and waiting Messiah which prophet Muhammad professes talk about them as the people that will follow the false Messiah, the Antichrist that will come on a Donkey!and will perform miracles and say am your God, so how you will make difference between this one and true Jesus when he returns surely after the Antichrist?.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

contradiction free, being impossible to reproduce , being proclaimed as the final revelation for all creatures of God, being not limited to Jews like was Torah and Gospel,
no books came after, as you confess messiah came, then why the people that received those books still waiting for the “False Messiah” , isn’t enough to stop considering their specific books that lost their original God books, a reason to look to an universal book and study it deeply then make a choice?

Books came after the Gospel only because Muhammad decided he wanted to make a power play and start a religion. It has nothing to go with God. Jews stayed Jewish because they didn’t believe in Jesus. That’s just how it is.

You should stop talking about non Holy Books as only Holy Books were only books and words of God and not interpretations and opinions and reporting about Holy books including an absolute belief in ideas without proofs even you cannot prove that from those books/ because you don’t have even translated Gospel at least(not even talking about original Gospel that i believe it was uplifted with Messiah) to make me look at it or even the Aramaic Torah!! So if they are not corrupted why Jews not believing in Jesus and waiting Messiah which prophet Muhammad professes talk about them as the people that will follow the false Messiah, the Antichrist that will come on a Donkey!and will perform miracles and say am your God, so how you will make difference between this one and true Jesus when he returns surely after the Antichrist?.

You’re still not proving that the books are corrupted…

 

[True_One_God]

Really so at least Jews the people of those books with the corruption they made they didn’t say Jesus is God but there is true one God, so are you telling them we know who is Jesus better than you?
The truth that they knew Jesus is proclaiming to be the Messiah and that’s fine for them initially , but when he told them only about God and their sins and corruption of books and killing prophets…and that he is not coming to be their King and to make them rule the world they just rejected him.

So in same time when your source is corrupted in their belief then your books built upon those books are 100% corrupt.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

What? That made no sense. Please explain it again.

 

[Fauken]

I think he’s saying that we corrupted an already corrupted understanding. The people who best understand the Torah/Old Testament are the Jews (ignoring the fact that in Jesus’ time they couldn’t even agree on what the “Old Testament” was), and with their (corrupted) books, they came to the conclusion that Jesus was not the Messiah. We supposedly use those same corrupted books with our already deficient understanding of them since we did not come to the same conclusion regarding Jesus as they, the most knowledgeable about those books, did.

I think that’s what he’s saying anyway.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Ridiculous at best, because he hasn’t proven that the Jews even corrupted anything.

 

[True_One_God]

OK now let say I am Jewish, and God sent me Moses with Torah /old testament, and many scriptures, including Gospel that was uplifted with Jesus that’s why it’s not found or burned and left no trace of it…Now If we the people of those Books believing in one True God without trinity.

How you want to use the same books to prove another religion and belief? actually from new testament built from interpretations/History reporting about Jesus(from many and different beliefs and sources and not from Gospel for example!)
So if the belief of the original receivers and concerned by those books are corrupted in their belief then how your belief should be true and not even by far more false and confusing.
But for the book that God made for you and for Jews as well , with actually original state , with falsifications tests to prove it’s from God !; you just reject it! is that a logic.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

including Gospel that was uplifted with Jesus that’s why it’s not found or burned and left no trace of it…

Prove it.

How you want to use the same books to prove another religion and belief? actually from new testament built from interpretations/History reporting about Jesus(from many and different beliefs and sources and not from Gospel for example!)

And? Paul taught only what had already been said by Christ. Peter did the same. All of the NT is inspired, at least in our belief.

So if the belief of the original receivers and concerned by those books are corrupted in their belief then how your belief should be true and not even by far more false and confusing.

You never proved that the Jews corrupted things.

But for the book that God made for you and for Jews as well , with actually original state , with falsifications tests to prove it’s from God !; you just reject it! is that a logic.

I reject the Koran because I have no evidence to believe it’s anything more than ramblings.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I reject the Koran because I have no evidence to believe it’s anything more than ramblings.

More so than that, you have the fallout it has wrought upon the world wherever it treads.

 

[Fauken]

Prove it…Sure show me the original Aramaic Gospel , or any kind of translated copy of it( that mention this is a translation of Gospel anywhere).

Arguing from silence is a logical fallacy. You are the one claiming it’s corrupted, so since you are the one making that charge, it’s your burden to prove its corruption. So go ahead – the Gospel was written in Aramaic and Koine Greek. Show us exactly where it was corrupted.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Prove it…Sure show me the original Aramaic Gospel , or any kind of translated copy of it( that mention this is a translation of Gospel anywhere).

It’s in bookstores everywhere. Might want to pick up a copy. I recommend NAB, not NABRE.

And? Paul taught only what had already been said by Christ. Peter did the same. All of the NT is inspired, at least in our belief.

Check the catechism. There’s references everywhere that ensue everything is airtight.

at least in our belief

And it’s built on the basics of what Jesus taught.

Ok , either they are corrupted with their books or you are corrupted with your belief.

Nope. Neither of those follow from anything you’ve said.

I reject the Koran because I have no evidence to believe it’s anything more than ramblings.

Evidence that it’s worth believing.

Lol, all Bibles encourage killing of people even for sins of their parents(including infants, women), blood sacrifice for sins,
Crusades killing and massacres , instability is caused by JEWS that waiting for anti Christ, and their colonization of land of Palestinians.
They are digged into USA’s decisions to keep world unstable.

Crusades were defensive wars against Muslim aggression and the Brits promised Israel to the Jews after WW1.

You have to admit that you don’t have anything against Islam and specially Koran; then you can believe what you want, as Allah is not waiting for anyone to believe while he is Arrogant and has no reasoning or arguments for what he believes.
Life is so short and the returning of Jesus ( when he said i will tell you plainly about Father…) is a proof that he didn’t told he was God or why should he talk about His God Father only and plainly.

Jesus spoke in parables so that we might understand. That doesn’t mean He isn’t God.

rather in your trinity concept that never been mentioned in time of Jesus?

You can ignore evidence all you want, but the trinity is biblical.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

You have to admit that you don’t have anything against Islam and specially Koran;

Nothing against them?! NOTHING AGAINST THEM?!???

…I wrote out a really long post about everything I believe about Islam based on the evil that religion has wrought on our planet, but after rereading it, I honestly think it would have gotten me banned, so I’m just going to leave you with my closing statement.

I believe that, at the end of time, when our merits and choices are revealed, and all the good and the evil they have wrought on the world is made known, the only person that’ll top Mohammad in terms of the damage done by his choices will be Adam, and that only in light of the fact that Adam’s one choice has allowed all other sin to happen…

---

The OT does have commands to kill, straight from the mouth of God. Here’s the thing though. The societies that the Jews were supposed to wipe out were horrifically evil to their very core. These were societies that thought nothing of burning their children alive in sacrifice to Baal. These were societies that had given themselves over entirely to the Devil. Compare that to the societies that Mohammad attacked, merely by virtue of not believing what he was teaching. He was a worldly-man seeking worldly power and wealth, he just used a false religion to attain his goals.

The two things are literally as different as night and day. I know you don’t know that, or at the very least don’t believe it, but to compare the OT calls for destruction to Mohammad’s is incredibly misguided.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

And if you ever try to say that Islam only destroyed evil societies, tell that to the Byzantines.

 

[guanophore]

Did Jesus found Christianity or asked to do so or was he Christian or Jewish by faith?

Jesus was raised as a Jew. He founded One Church, which is Catholic. Do you think someone asked Him to do this? Do you think it was not his idea?

Are you speaking in the voice of Allah?

No, these are historical facts.

If you have a strong knowledge of the true God , then you can talk through this knowledge…as Allah made us superior only if we can recognize and believe in the truth and not to follow devils and Satan foot steps.

Superior to whom? Do you think that all Christians are inferior?

You cannot believe that as if that God you have in your imagination was true he will preserve the original books but God preserved books for certain time

Yes, we can, and we do believe that God has preserved His Word, both in the Scriptures and in the Sacred Tradition.

then when Koran the last revelation came God will not preserve books specially made for Jews and after being corrupted by them specially for the reason of the non acceptance of Jesus as Messiah and also Muhammad

Jews and Christians do not recognize the Koran as a revelation from God. Christians believe that Jesus was the final and full revelation by God of Himself to human kind.

Both Jews and Christians believe that God has preserved the Holy Writings entrusted to our care. I think you believe that the Christian Scriptures are “corrupted”.

as well as they are waiting for a king to rule the world and make them over other human kind…the corruption and non existence of original books is not a coincidence.

There are Jews who are expecting a different Messiah than Jesus.

I think you would like to discount the validity of the Christian Scriptures because we do not have the original manuscripts. This is your prerogative.

I think that blame is one of the hallmarks of a dysfunctional system. All systems that are dysfunctional need to fix blame, whether they are couples, families, corporations or religions.

 

[guanophore]

which prophet Muhammad professes talk about them as the people that will follow the false Messiah, the Antichrist that will come on a Donkey!and will perform miracles and say am your God, so how you will make difference between this one and true Jesus when he returns surely after the Antichrist?.

So Muhammad says that the antichrist will come on a donkey and perform miracles?

You should stop talking about non Holy Books as only Holy Books

You seem to have made it clear that you do not consider the Christian Scriptures as Holy Books, and that the Koran is the only Holy Book. I am curious why you have come to a Catholic website, to tell us we should stop reading our Scriptures. What is your goal here? Do you think you can get us to abandon our faith and convert to Islam?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Do you think you can get us to abandon our faith and convert to Islam?

If i’m being rather honest, I could never be Muslim. The Catholic God makes sense. He rules by love and mercy. He is worthy of my devotion beyond all measure. The Muslim god is not. He rules by fear. I would sooner be atheist than bow down to a god like that professed to be Allah by muslims.

 

[Fauken]

He won’t be answering any time soon. He’s been suspended.