Is Muhammed in Purgatory and should we be praying for him?

[Jay53]

Hello All,

I’m not sure if this is the right forum for this question. If not, please let me know. This is my first post. I just joined today, but have been “lurking” in the forums for awhile.

Anyhow, my question is related to my belief that each person is responsible if they cause another person to sin. If so, is Muhammed in Purgatory and suffering more for each sin committed in the name of Islam?

I am a Catholic and admittedly do not understand Islam completely. IMHO, Muhammed was completely misguided and made this stuff up so that he could have sexual relations with whomever he wanted. Please correct my understanding if it is wrong: A Muslim man may have 4 permanent wives and as many “temporary” wives as he wants. The temporary marriage can be for 1 hour/1week/1 month/whatever. Also, if a Muslim man divorces his wife (“I divorce you” 3 times) and later decides he wants to remarry his wife, the couple goes to a mediator. After mediating, the wife has to have sex with the mediator, wait a certain period of time (? until she has her menstrual cycle ?) and then the couple can remarry. (Please correct me if I misunderstood what I read.)

In any event, I genuinely believe that these multiple marriages are sins. However, a Muslim who has been raised this way and doesn’t know any better is just following what he/she has been taught. Are they then not responsible for these sins, but Muhammed is since he started this practice?

And, should we be praying for his soul if he is in Purgatory. I frequently pray for all the souls in purgatory and specifically for my deceased relatives, but should I pray for Muhammed? Please note that I am not trying to be funny or disrespectful. I take praying for deceased people VERY seriously.

Sorry this is so long, and Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

JAY53

 

[MarcoPolo]

Man cannot know with absolute certitude, without revelation from God, whether someone is in heaven, hell, or purgatory. We cannot know the culpability of anyone akin to the graces they received. So the simple answer is, yes, pray for his soul, and all the departed, that they may have died in the friendship of God.

 

[inJESUS]

Hello All,

I’m not sure if this is the right forum for this question. If not, please let me know. This is my first post. I just joined today, but have been “lurking” in the forums for awhile.

 

[Jay53]

Thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I really am genuinely confused as to why anyone would follow these practices and I feel very sorry for the women who don’t know any different and are stuck in this lifestyle (although admittedly if they don’t know different they may not see anything wrong with it) or who would like to leave and can’t. I just finished reading a book about Dr. Homa Darabi written by her sister and I was horrified by what happened to her and is potentially happening to other women. I will continue to pray for all of them. Thanks again for the help.

 

[inJESUS]

Thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I really am genuinely confused as to why anyone would follow these practices and I feel very sorry for the women who don’t know any different and are stuck in this lifestyle (although admittedly if they don’t know different they may not see anything wrong with it) or who would like to leave and can’t. I just finished reading a book about Dr. Homa Darabi written by her sister and I was horrified by what happened to her and is potentially happening to other women. I will continue to pray for all of them. Thanks again for the help.

surely not all Muslim women have to deal with polygamous hardships, since many men can afford only one wife; others have to deal with it not necessarily because they like it, but because they have no other choice (divorce will be harder on them) and others who can say no can ask for divorce. All in all, some simply convince themselves that Allah gives the male this right and learn to deal with it psychologically and emotionally, others refuse to deal with it if they can and others live it despite themselves, after all it is “halal” for men and they have no say except divorce, which is usually harder in our societies. I personally pitty such women.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Man cannot know with absolute certitude, without revelation from God, whether someone is in heaven, hell, or purgatory. We cannot know the culpability of anyone akin to the graces they received. So the simple answer is, yes, pray for his soul, and all the departed, that they may have died in the friendship of God.

Um, slight correction, wrt the first sentence.

We cannot know who is in hell of purgatory, but we can know with certainty that those Saints who have been canonized by the Church are in heaven. Were they not, God the Holy Spirit would have prevented the Church from canonizing them, in error.

But the Church acknowledges that she certainly does not know of all who are in heaven with certainty. That is why we celebrate the Feast of All Saints on November 1, when we honour those Saints in heaven about whose eternal situation we know absolutely nothing.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Sailka]

Thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I really am genuinely confused as to why anyone would follow these practices and I feel very sorry for the women who don’t know any different and are stuck in this lifestyle (although admittedly if they don’t know different they may not see anything wrong with it) or who would like to leave and can’t. I just finished reading a book about Dr. Homa Darabi written by her sister and I was horrified by what happened to her and is potentially happening to other women. I will continue to pray for all of them. Thanks again for the help.

Also, Islam is not One Religion. It has 82 Sects, which have differing attitudes and detailed standards. Many of the Problems we find in Islam, like Suicide killings, killings of civilans, are forbidden by the Koran. As are the ‘protecting the family name’ killings of a family member.

And Islam, Muhamed was not based or founded on sex, but on religion.

 

[bpbasilphx]

All we know for sure about Mahomet is that he rejected the REAL Jesus proclaimed by the Church to be God Incarnate and persecuted Christians.

We may hope that God will have mercy on him.

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!

 

[StMarina303ad]

There is no such thing as Purgatory, but yes of course you should pray for Muhammed as well as everyone else who has died since the beginning of this world.

 

[Sailka]

All we know for sure about Mahomet is that he rejected the REAL Jesus proclaimed by the Church to be God Incarnate and persecuted Christians.

We may hope that God will have mercy on him.

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!

Muhamet and Islam do Not ‘reject’ Jesus, Mary, St John, Abraham. They were recognized as ‘major prophet’ equivalents, Especially Jesus. He is equated to Muhamet himself.
And they didn’t kill Christians first. We killed Muslims first, as in the Crusades, killing every living soul in some Muslim occupied towns like Ceasarea, Jerusalem, as I recall
Islam was Respectful of all true faiths at begining, and theoretically now. The Problem has been the Military conquests, Occupations of Their lands by ‘outsiders’ like Us, Isrealis, formerly Brits, French. Politics, not religion, has been The Problem, Historically.

 

[Shlomey]

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world.

explanation:
3 “That dissolveth Jesus”… Viz., either by denying his humanity, or his divinity.
(Douay-Rheims)

Mohammed is Antichrist. He knew of Christianity and chose to create his own religion based on bits and pieces from other religions, oncluding heretical gnostics that he portrays to be the real Christians in the Qur’an (unitarians).

I do not see any reason as to why he should even be in purgatory.

The Bible speaks of the Gnostics that Mohammed chose to base his new religion on:

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared, 3 Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

explanation:
3 “Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats”… He speaks of the Gnostics, the Marcionites, the Eneratites, the Manicheans, and other ancient heretics, who absolutely condemned marriage, and the use of all kind of meat; because they pretended that all flesh was from an evil principle. Whereas the church of God, so far from condemning marriage, holds it a holy sacrament; and forbids it to none but such as by vow have chosen the better part: and prohibits not the use of any meats whatsoever in proper times and seasons; though she does not judge all kind of diet proper for days of fasting and penance.

 

[Sailka]

There is no such thing as Purgatory, but yes of course you should pray for Muhammed as well as everyone else who has died since the beginning of this world.

Do you have Proof there is no Purgatory? It’s been Known for about 3,000 years, and is mentioned in the Old and New Testament. You been told otherwise?

If there is no “Purgatory”, why pray for those who have died? Aren’t they forever in Heaven or Hell? Praying for the dead is only to shorten their “Cleansing” “Time” in purging/cleansing guilt status, before Heaven. (= Purgatory)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

I am a Catholic and admittedly do not understand Islam completely.

there is thread on Ask about Islam2 . Also , you may start threads on related questions on Islam if you want .

Muhammed was completely misguided and made this stuff up so that he could have sexual relations with whomever he wanted.

Muhammed (p) did not introduce polygamy . Abraham (p) had 3 wives , Moses (p) had 2 , Solomon (p) had 1000 wives & concubines. Pl. read your bible more carefully.

A Muslim man may have 4 permanent wives

yes , Islam does not allow men to have illegal wives i.e. mistresses . If he can act justly & can maintain separate place for wives , he can marry up to 4. Before this law , men could have unlimited wives. About right hand possess , don’t know if there was any limit.

and as many “temporary” wives as he wants. The temporary marriage can be for 1 hour/1week/1 month/whatever.

Divorce is allowed if necessary but not encouraged in Islam . God ordered men to love wife despite her some faults . Prophet (p) said among all lawful matters , God dislikes divorce most. In the past few Muslims started doing temporary marriages but as it goes against the teaching of Quran , Prophet did not allow it .

After mediating, the wife has to have sex with the mediator, wait a certain period of time (? until she has her menstrual cycle ?) and then the couple can remarry.

earlier there was no limit for how many times a husband can divorce his wife. Some were torturing wives. They divorced wives & when heard that she is getting married , used to withdraw the divorce , brought her back home, again divorced her & used to give threat that he will continue doing it.

So , God fixed the maximum limit for divorce . If a husband divorces her for 3 times , he has no right to bring her back unless she is married again & end her relationship with new husband. Pre-planned marriage & divorce for 1 , 2 hours are forbidden . Anyone fears God can’t do such thing.

I genuinely believe that these multiple marriages are sins.

Jesus (p) allowed it in OT. In NT , is there any such verse that says it’s a sin ?

… Muhammed is since he started this practice?

he did not

And, should we be praying for his soul if he is in Purgatory.

If a person is responsible for misguiding billion people , s/he should be in hell forever.

should I pray for Muhammed?

God sends His blessings on him & the angels & the believers all around the world. If Muslims think the last Prophet needs your prayer, we will surely contact you , thanks .

 

[DLC]

He did not go to purgatory because purgatory is not a biblical doctrine found anywhere in the Bible. Where he went was the bad side hades. the place that unsaved go to before they go to hell. No one is in in hell yet. Read this true parble to see that there are two parts of hades. No one can cross from one side to the next. This parable goed directly against the false idea of purgatory.
Luke 16:19-31

 

[StMarina303ad]

Do you have Proof there is no Purgatory? It’s been Known for about 3,000 years, and is mentioned in the Old and New Testament. You been told otherwise?

If there is no “Purgatory”, why pray for those who have died? Aren’t they forever in Heaven or Hell? Praying for the dead is only to shorten their “Cleansing” “Time” in purging/cleansing guilt status, before Heaven. (= Purgatory)

The After Life has been known about for more the 3,000 years.

I am an Orthodox Christian - the Orthodox Church has been around since before the Catholic Church was founded in Rome. Rome did not begin teaching about a firey place called Purgatory until the 1400’s.

The Orthodox Church has always taught, which is consistent with Sacred Scripture (both Old and New Testaments) that at death, which is an unnatural state, the body and soul are separated. The soul goes to a waiting place - either of complete joy or of sorrow - to await the Last Judgement - at which time our bodies which will be transformed will be reunited with our souls and then we will for all eternity enter Heaven or Hell body and soul.

2 Macc - simply says that it is wholesome to pray for the dead - which we have always believed/taught - we have prayers said for the dead after Liturgy on certain days - usually 40 days after one’s death and at the year anniversary.

Jesus made it clear about what happens in the afterlife in: Luke 16: 19-31. Those who will eventually end up in Eternal Fire (Hell) will have knowledge of themselves and memory of their former life, they will be able to see those who will be saved, their name will be forgotten, they will thirst and be denied. Those who will eventually end up in Heaven will be in a peaceful, happy place (called Abraham’s Bosom in the passage), they will not go nameless, they will be at peace until the reunion of the soul with their body at the Last Day.

After coming up with the doctrine of Purgatory nearly 1,500 years after Christ’s Death and Resurrection, Catholics have in the last few centuries begun to misquote 1 Cor. 3:15 claiming that it means that some people will enter Purgatory - a place of torchurous fire and will remain their until their sins have been fully forgiven/atoned for; however, the Orthodox interpretation of this passage by reading it in context of the passage (verses 5 - 15) as well as in light of the Tradition of the Church which has remained unchanged for 2,000 (unlike the Catholic Church) it is refering to priests & bishops who are responsible for building the Church - each priest and bishops work will be made clear in the end, the “Day” (Judgement Day) and those who did not build using suitable materials, their work will be destroyed (in otherwords, they have failed to bring people to salvation) but they themselves may still be saved. Priests and Bishops have a grave responsibility to be a great pastor to the flock which has been given to them because not everyone they shepard will be guarenteed entrance into heaven, even if they themselves are saved.

“1 Cor.3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers (Apostles/Bishops/Priests) through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one (Each Apostle/Bishop/Priest)will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers (Apostle/Bishop/Priest); you are God’s field (Laity), you are God’s building (Laity). 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it (Apostle/Bishop/Priest). 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s (Apostle/Bishop/Priest) work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s (Apostle/Bishop/Priest) work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he (Apostle/Bishop/Priest)will suffer loss (loss of their parishoners); but he (Apostle/Bishop/Priest)himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”

 

[Zooey]

First of all: The question of purgatory is for another thread. I do not think that any of us should derail this thread, to argue for or against the existence of purgatory.

OK: Back to OP. I believe we should pray for the dead, including those who have died outside of Christian faith…*especially *them really.
I would say, that I would think that the best thing for you would be to pray for all who have died, following the teachings of Islam. But–I also believe that sometimes, God wants us to pray for some particular person. If you feel that you are being led of the Lord to pray for Muhammed, or for Muslims in general, then I think you should do so.
I have to admit to my personal doubts about whether praying for him would do any good, but I also believe that our prayers are never wasted, and that they can be applied to another person or persons in need of prayer for release from purgatory.

I speak as someone who has been, in the past, led to pray for specific people who have passed on to the next life. In one case, I was very surprised, & I know that the impulse was not from me or my imagination. It had to come from God. I had no peace until I prayed; so I know this can happen.
If that is the case with you, by all means, pray. How it may (or may not) help the person you are praying for, I don’t know. But I do believe that it is important to follow the direction you are led in, regardless of whether you understand it, or whether you can imagine such a prayer accomplishing anything…It may be, I believe, that your obedience to pray, could be, will be, of great benefit to your own spiritual state.
I hope this helps!

 

[Shlomey]

2 Macc - simply says that it is wholesome to pray for the dead - which we have always believed/taught - we have prayers said for the dead after Liturgy on certain days - usually 40 days after one’s death and at the year anniversary.

I disagree.
Let us read the passage:

“In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.** Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin**” (2 Macc. 12:43–45).

Christ refers to the sinner who “will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? “He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering (“fire”) there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

And as far as the “Orthoxy” being the “true Church”, may I remind you of the Council of Chalcedon that expressed the supreme authority of the Roman Pontiff.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Is Muhammed in Purgatory and should we be praying for him?

Could be.

Sure. Pray away. pal!

It’d be a very nice thing for you to do.

:shamrock2:

 

[TurkiyeFan]

He did not go to purgatory because purgatory is not a biblical doctrine found anywhere in the Bible. …This parable goed directly against the false idea of purgatory.
Luke 16:19-31

But Catholics accept Purgatory based on sacred Tradition (which is valid to them) and many Catholic scholars believe that Luke 16:19-31 is about Purgatory and not Hell. You cannot prove that which you lable “false” if it is believed to be “true” to others who can’t prove their viewpoint either.

I really don’t understand why people bother with religious debates like this… chances of anyone being convinced of anything based on the flimsey evidence seems odd to me. Religion is a worldwide mass delusion in various forms. I mean no offense, but just giving my observation. I’m still trying to understand why people subject themselves to religion and the misery it causes.

 

[Jay53]

Zooey,

Thank you for your response. That is closest to what I am experiencing. I don’t know if it was from reading about Dr. Homa Darabi or not, but I find myself “enraged” (that might be too strong of a word) about the whole Muslim culture and I honestly don’t know how anyone can believe and follow any of that. (Of course, they would probably say the same about me!) In any event I find myself distracted - I sometimes wonder if it’s Satan, trying to just distract me from my prayers or my guardian angel/someone heavenly directing me to pray harder for the conversion of unbelievers. (I also follow the messages from Medjugorje each month where Blessed Mother has asked us to pray for unbelievers.)

Muslim Woman,
Your last comment was a little snarky. I don’t think I need your or any Muslim’s permission to pray for someone. Thanks.:dts: