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fakename
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just wondering
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HerrZJA
Guest
Well, that’s a complex question. If we get a hundred people in here, one can imagine we’ll have about 150 different answers.
Is Murder worse than Rape? Depends on your point of view. Ultimately, they’re both sins, and sin is sin. From a theological point of view, they’re probably about the same.
In terms of scoial impact, I would have to say that rape is the worst. For one, the victim lives, and will be scarred for the majority, if not the remainder, of his or her life. This will impact their family, and their ability to function in an ordinary way in relationships. Murder has the “mercy” of the target being dead and gone. On the other hand, murder impacts the family in a much stronger and more permanent way.
Ultimately, they’re both wrong.
Is Murder worse than Rape? Depends on your point of view. Ultimately, they’re both sins, and sin is sin. From a theological point of view, they’re probably about the same.
In terms of scoial impact, I would have to say that rape is the worst. For one, the victim lives, and will be scarred for the majority, if not the remainder, of his or her life. This will impact their family, and their ability to function in an ordinary way in relationships. Murder has the “mercy” of the target being dead and gone. On the other hand, murder impacts the family in a much stronger and more permanent way.
Ultimately, they’re both wrong.
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Redratfish
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There are way to many variables to definatively say which is worse. It depends on who people are, how they would react to be raped (male and female), ect. Morally both are equally bad.
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GloriousOrder
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You can get your answer from the very first of those illustrious Psalms.
“Blessed is the man who has not walked in the path of the sinner… nor sat in the seat of pestilence”, etc.
God hates the sin and hates the unrepentant sinner. Let’s never become universalists or anything silly like that. God is righteous and merciful, a judge and a clement father. We tend to forget the one and remember the other in both cases. Secularism has done this to our whole human mindset, religious and irreligious. The Lord hates all sin, and all sin is evil before His eternal and perfect Self. Why should you even ask a question like that? All sin is evil. All sin should be hated and avoided. Treat rape and murder as twin brothers of the same parents.
“Blessed is the man who has not walked in the path of the sinner… nor sat in the seat of pestilence”, etc.
God hates the sin and hates the unrepentant sinner. Let’s never become universalists or anything silly like that. God is righteous and merciful, a judge and a clement father. We tend to forget the one and remember the other in both cases. Secularism has done this to our whole human mindset, religious and irreligious. The Lord hates all sin, and all sin is evil before His eternal and perfect Self. Why should you even ask a question like that? All sin is evil. All sin should be hated and avoided. Treat rape and murder as twin brothers of the same parents.
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JerryS
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Perhaps the murderers and rapists in hell debate the question.
There’s not much point in our debating it.
There’s not much point in our debating it.
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starshiptrooper
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There is some point in discussing this question. If a murder or rapist is captured, he will be punished for his crimes. The most severe punishments are given for the worst crimes. Therefore, discussing whether or not murder is worse than rape will tell us which crime should be given the more severe punishment.
I think that murder is worse than rape because a rape victim can recover. A corpse can’t.
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fakename
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good way of putting it -there is some utilitarian value in the question. Plus I suppose knowledge is good for its own sake. Personally I think murder is worse, but then why do people die to preserve chastity, -I’m a little confused on this point since if murder is worse, then wrongful death is worse, so wouldn’t you want to prevent wrongful death rather than prevent impurity?
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Dranu
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Not to downplay the horror of such sins, but Christ can even forgive them. They are not necessarily doomed to hell. A good strong criminal justice system can help facilitate the necessary repentance of our fallen brethren too.
Anyhow, on topic, it depends on the circumstances. Some murders are worse than some rapes and some rapes are worse than some murders.
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joclucsylv
Guest
Quite a question! I often ask my husband hypothetical questions and it bugs him, because he is a black and white sort of person. I on the other hand love these questions.
Personally I think murder is worse. I put myself in both situations (definitely not nice to think about) but I would rather be raped. I am a mother of 2, and as diFficult as it would be I would recover from the rape and move on to raise my children. I would look at the rape as a cross to bear. I want to raise my children, and pray everyday to live until they reach adulthood.
Personally I think murder is worse. I put myself in both situations (definitely not nice to think about) but I would rather be raped. I am a mother of 2, and as diFficult as it would be I would recover from the rape and move on to raise my children. I would look at the rape as a cross to bear. I want to raise my children, and pray everyday to live until they reach adulthood.
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PiousTemplar
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God hates the unrepentant sinner? Is that Church teaching? What about when Jesus descended into hell to preach to the spirits? He wouldn’t of done that if he didn’t love them…
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thistle
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Murder and rape are both heinous crimes and grave sins so I agree that there is little point in trying to differentiate between the two.
As for your other comment I have to disagree. God does not hate.
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EasterJoy
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If you fight rape until you are murdered, that doesn’t mean you chose to be murdered or put the person in a near occasion of the sin of murder by not allowing them to rape you. It means you chose to fight. You chose to defy your attacker. You chose to do what you could to stop the crime that was actually being committed.
A person threatened with murder by a rapist is not held accountable for the loss of his or her chastity if he or she stops fighting, but he or she also doesn’t have to believe that giving into the rape can be believed to spare his or her life. That person has to decide if they think capitulating will actually prevent the murder. You can’t know. You just have to guess.
I think many people who died in the preservation of chastity believed either that they would not prevent their own murder by giving in or that they had a better chance of preventing both the rape and the murder by continuing to fight.
A rape victim does not become impure. There is no sin in being a rape victim. There have been (and are) places where women would fear a slow death of life outside the protection of a husband and family to the fast death of giving up their only chance of getting a husband and keeping her place with her people (that is, evidence of her virginity). That doesn’t mean she chose to be murdered, though. That was risking one kind of swift death instead of choosing the sure fate of a different kind of death if she gave in.
What a horrible choice that would be.
A person threatened with murder by a rapist is not held accountable for the loss of his or her chastity if he or she stops fighting, but he or she also doesn’t have to believe that giving into the rape can be believed to spare his or her life. That person has to decide if they think capitulating will actually prevent the murder. You can’t know. You just have to guess.
I think many people who died in the preservation of chastity believed either that they would not prevent their own murder by giving in or that they had a better chance of preventing both the rape and the murder by continuing to fight.
A rape victim does not become impure. There is no sin in being a rape victim. There have been (and are) places where women would fear a slow death of life outside the protection of a husband and family to the fast death of giving up their only chance of getting a husband and keeping her place with her people (that is, evidence of her virginity). That doesn’t mean she chose to be murdered, though. That was risking one kind of swift death instead of choosing the sure fate of a different kind of death if she gave in.
What a horrible choice that would be.
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Dranu
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GloriousOrder has a point. Sure God does not hate if we define hate as ‘willing the evil of another’. But if by hate we mean ‘willing the destruction of another’, God certainly does hate because sometimes the destruction of another is their good (and thus to hate them in the first sense is to will them not to be destroyed). I would say, however, that God’s hate of the unrepentant sinner is first aimed at trying to get them to repent (this is the destruction of the sinner God wills in this life), but once they die and they are unrepentant unto death…GloriousOrder:
As for your other comment I have to disagree. God does not hate.
Pious Templar:
Depends how you define hate. In one sense of the word He never hates, but in another He does (and in that other sense ‘hate’ is compatible with being all loving). Also, from what I understand, the hell he descended into is not the hell we typically think of (i.e. it was not the place of eternal damnation)
I have had so many posts like this lately, but its because of a trend I am seeing that justice is being treated like a dirty word for some reason.
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thistle
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However you try to play with words God does NOT hate!! Show me any teaching of the Church that even suggests God hates.
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PiousTemplar
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I hardly think ‘justice’ requires you to hate the guilty.
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Dranu
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Will do friend. I’m a bit busy at the moment but I shall get back to it. In the mean time understand (again) that what I mean by hate is not “willing evil for another” but rather “willing the destruction (in kind) of another”. If you do not consider the latter to be hate, then our disagreement is merely verbal, but if you do I have teachings and sayings that certainly suggest God does it. I would never suggest God does evil, but I would certainly suggest that God has holy wrath, and I would think to deny the latter is to speak against who God (who is all good) is.
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GloriousOrder
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Psalm 5:7 “Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie.”
Two Covenants; Same God. The Word of God, as the Lord Jesus Christ, didn’t suddenly become a soft pillow after Time Eternal of being an awesome, righteous, and just King.
Proverbs 6:16-16: “Six things the Lord God hateth, and a seventh He detesteth”…
I’ll leave you to read what those are, but anyway: see that God hates. His own Holy Scriptures say this plainly. Remember that “Church teaching” isn’t just what bishops and the Pope teach, but the Magisterium, Tradition, and Scripture combined. The Word says it; the Holy Spirit of God spoke it. What more is there?
Who taught you that? It sounds so wishy-washy! I mean no offense, but come on.
God’s hate is naturally not congruous with our human ‘hatred’. It’s our way of understanding His Justice.It seems that way… according to the Bible. Psalm 96(96):10 “The Lord loves those who hate evil”. God is just, not a wimpy “let’s all get along” 21st century type (not necessarily you, but you know the type I mean).
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fakename
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Just to put this matter at rest one should consult the Summa. In it, is revealed the truth that God doesn’t hate in the sense of experiencing a passion but He “hates” through His effects and in the sense that He withdraws certain goods from certain people. So hatred is just a metaphor like God’s height or depth. God experiences neither love nor hate since He is supremely simple. He also hates sins inasmuch as it goes against His essence.
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EasterJoy
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Close. God does not experience emotions in the sense that we experience them, because God does not experience time (or anything else) in the limited way that we do. Even Jesus, who is truly a man, did not have the limitation of self-centeredness and original sin that blinds us. Few of us know what hatred or anger without sin even means, even on our level, let alone on God’s.
So yes, the experience of God must to be expressed as a metaphor, limited to our poor understanding, our poor self-knowledge, and our limited ability to articulate even that which we experience ourselves. It is not because God is so simple, but because the first-hand experience of being God is infinitely beyond our comprehension.
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fakename
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Well it’s actually both -God is beyond understanding so our understanding of His ways are analogical. But God’s supreme simplicity is also beyond our understanding -the reason why He is simple is because He is omnipotent and so there is no change or complexity within His (analogically speaking) substance.
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