Is my annulment still valid?

[Murphster]

If an annulment was received and a marriage declared invalid, based on all information given at the time of the investigation by the tribunal, would the annulment still be valid if new information regarding the validity of marriage later came to light?

I was married in November of 2003. Three days before my wedding, unbeknownst to me, my sister’s husband told my fiance that he and I had slept together. This was completely false. My future husband did not ask me whether or not it was true, only asked me the night before our wedding if I had remained “unreservedly” his throughout our engagement and dating period. I assured him that yes, I loved him very much and had always and would always be faithful to him.

We were married the next morning. Later that evening, we consummated our marriage. My husband seemed very agitated and upset with me, and even though I was hurt I brushed it off as new-husband jitters. The next day I commented to him that I wondered if I could be pregnant, as we had consummated our marriage during my peak day and I just “felt” different, though I knew the hormone would not be able to be detected for a couple weeks. This comment enraged my husband as he thought it meant that I had indeed slept with my BIL and was “casually” trying to prepare him for the idea that I could be pregnant but supposedly not let him suspect that he wasn’t the father.

Without confronting me about the information he had previously received from my BIL, my husband left me once the pregnancy was confirmed. He also admitted to me that three days before our wedding, he had slept with a bridesmaid (in anger and hurt after receiving the information from my BIL about my supposed unfaithfulness).

He filed for divorce and I immediately pursued an annulment, as it appeared to me that he was not open to children and he did not understand fidelity in marriage, if he cheated on me right before our marriage. It was granted, though he did not cooperate in the process. He also gave up his rights to our children (I had twins), thinking they weren’t his but choosing not to confirm with a paternity test, as he wanted nothing to do with me.

However, now going on two years later, my BIL admitted to me that he told my ex-husband this untruth and that he purposely did so for selfish reasons. I called my ex-husband and asked him if this was the reason behind his actions, the reason for no explanation given. He was extremely emotional and absolutely shocked to learn that I had not cheated on him, and that I was not carrying on a relationship with my BIL (who has been informing him for the last year and a half that this is the case).

I realize now that it wasn’t my ex-husband’s lack of understanding about marriage nor his dislike for children that caused the demise of our marriage, but my BIL’s lie. My ex-husband wishes to see his children and possibly reconcile. He is wondering if the annullment is valid because it was received without all of the information and now that we both know the cause of his actions were due to my BIL’s lie, what we should do.

However, I am unclear what to do about this because I have begun to move on. I have met someone on CatholicMatch.com and though I have not met him yet, I would like to do so soon and possibly have a life with him. But, I am worried that my responsibility should be to give my (ex?)husband a second chance for the good of my girls and possibly because we were intended to be together, if not still validly married in the eyes of God

Is the annulment valid? Did I have a valid marriage after all? My ex husband says he did not have doubt at the moment of marriage because he asked me about it the night before, and that it wasn’t until later on our wedding night and the morning after that it began to unravel for him. But, his actions basically both before and after our vows would indicate that he did have doubt and reservation, even if it was utterly unfounded.

Please help me and shed some light on this situation!

 

[davidv]

Murphster:

If an annulment was received and a marriage declared invalid, based on all information given at the time of the investigation by the tribunal, would the annulment still be valid if new information regarding the validity of marriage later came to light?

I was married in November of 2003. Three days before my wedding, unbeknownst to me, my sister’s husband told my fiance that he and I had slept together. This was completely false. My future husband did not ask me whether or not it was true, only asked me the night before our wedding if I had remained “unreservedly” his throughout our engagement and dating period. I assured him that yes, I loved him very much and had always and would always be faithful to him.

We were married the next morning. Later that evening, we consummated our marriage. My husband seemed very agitated and upset with me, and even though I was hurt I brushed it off as new-husband jitters. The next day I commented to him that I wondered if I could be pregnant, as we had consummated our marriage during my peak day and I just “felt” different, though I knew the hormone would not be able to be detected for a couple weeks. This comment enraged my husband as he thought it meant that I had indeed slept with my BIL and was “casually” trying to prepare him for the idea that I could be pregnant but supposedly not let him suspect that he wasn’t the father.

Without confronting me about the information he had previously received from my BIL, my husband left me once the pregnancy was confirmed. He also admitted to me that three days before our wedding, he had slept with a bridesmaid (in anger and hurt after receiving the information from my BIL about my supposed unfaithfulness).

He filed for divorce and I immediately pursued an annulment, as it appeared to me that he was not open to children and he did not understand fidelity in marriage, if he cheated on me right before our marriage. It was granted, though he did not cooperate in the process. He also gave up his rights to our children (I had twins), thinking they weren’t his but choosing not to confirm with a paternity test, as he wanted nothing to do with me.

However, now going on two years later, my BIL admitted to me that he told my ex-husband this untruth and that he purposely did so for selfish reasons. I called my ex-husband and asked him if this was the reason behind his actions, the reason for no explanation given. He was extremely emotional and absolutely shocked to learn that I had not cheated on him, and that I was not carrying on a relationship with my BIL (who has been informing him for the last year and a half that this is the case).

I realize now that it wasn’t my ex-husband’s lack of understanding about marriage nor his dislike for children that caused the demise of our marriage, but my BIL’s lie. My ex-husband wishes to see his children and possibly reconcile. He is wondering if the annullment is valid because it was received without all of the information and now that we both know the cause of his actions were due to my BIL’s lie, what we should do.

However, I am unclear what to do about this because I have begun to move on. I have met someone on CatholicMatch.com and though I have not met him yet, I would like to do so soon and possibly have a life with him. But, I am worried that my responsibility should be to give my (ex?)husband a second chance for the good of my girls and possibly because we were intended to be together, if not still validly married in the eyes of God

Is the annulment valid? Did I have a valid marriage after all? My ex husband says he did not have doubt at the moment of marriage because he asked me about it the night before, and that it wasn’t until later on our wedding night and the morning after that it began to unravel for him. But, his actions basically both before and after our vows would indicate that he did have doubt and reservation, even if it was utterly unfounded.

Please help me and shed some light on this situation!

Please talk to a priest. There are too many very personal things that should not be discussed in a public forum.

 

[Murphster]

Thanks for your opinion, but this is an anonymous forum. I posted in the Ask an Apologists section, but I know that it might be days or weeks before I hear anything, if at all.

 

[Windmill]

I feel for you and the turmoil you’re going through. However, a million opinions on this site are not something you can presume to mirror a trained marriage tribunal.

If it was me, for the sake of my soul and that of any others out there I’d consider getting involved with, I’d contact the chancery and submit the information to them. You cannot assume the marriage tribunal’s original postion would remain unchanged if such significant information was omitted from the proceedings.

Remember, a marriage tribunal does not make a valid marriage invalid. It merely states that it was reasonable to assume the marriage was invalid from the beginning based on the information given.

This, to me, seems significant.

 

[John_Higgins]

Your diocesan tribunal declared that your marriage was not sacramental. For every declaration of nullity, there is another see which checks to see that the originating one acted properly. It seems that your husband had a grave error regarding the belief of the indissolubility of marriage.

The Church has spoken. Pray, and move on.

God bless you!

John

 

[Benedictus]

Murphster:

Thanks for your opinion, but this is an anonymous forum.

But not as anonymous as you might think. Yours is an unusual situation, and someone close to you would probably recognize you if they read this thread.

 

[Catholic2003]

Windmill:

It merely states that it was reasonable to assume the marriage was invalid from the beginning based on the information given.

This statement needs to be amended in a few respects.

First of all, instead of “reasonable”, the standard used by the marriage tribunal is much higher, that of “morally certain”.

Second of all, “based on the information given” needs to be understood in the context of canon 1060, whereby any information that is not known is presumed to be in favor of the validity of the marriage.

Thus, when a marriage tribunal issues a declaration of nullity, it means that they are morally certain that the information submitted, in and of itself, was sufficient to prove the nullity of the marriage.

So unless Murphster or any of her witnesses lied to the tribunal, I don’t see any reason to question the validity of the annulment. So I guess it boils down to whether the brother-in-law was a witness.

 

[Ghosty]

I don’t believe that such Tribunals are infallible, only that they are authoritative and that we can be considered morally free and clear with their rulings. Given the new information, however, I would recommend getting a re-evaluation. If you don’t, I have the feeling doubts will haunt you for a long time. At the very least, get a reaffirmation from a Canon Lawyer. While Tribunals act with moral certainty, that certainty is only applicable to the full knowledge available. Under the circumstances they knew, they were morally certain that the marriage wasn’t valid.

Now, all this being said, it’s my opinion that the marriage would stand as being invalid because, regardless of the reasons for your husband’s actions, his actions themselves are what the Tribunal was judging. He was not showing himself to be committed to you if he did indeed cheat on you, nor by running out on you afterwards. This stands regardless of what he thought or assumed. The real question in my mind is whether or not you want to give him a second chance.

 

[Listener]

I think you answered your own question. You said that he filed for divorce while you pursued an anullment. I believe that you even said that he did not participate in the process. When you pursued the anullment, you obviously told them that you were innocent of wrongdoing, and they granted the anullment anyway. That would make it valid. It would be based on his state of mind at the moment of your marriage. His state of mind would be the same regardless of the truth about what caused him to be in this state of mind. You should also speak to a priest who has expertise in these matters. It will make you feel much better.

I don’t believe that you are married to this man in any way, shape or form. He sounds like somewhat of a terror to be around. If he wants to be a father to his children, that is a good thing. I think you should proceed very cautiously to see if he is capable of that, probably with the advice of a lawyer.

As far as marrying this guy, I saw all kinds of red flags when reading your post. You would have to go through a lot of pre-marital counseling to see if this idea is even feasible. You would also have to look at him carefully. Is he good at earning money and spending it wisely? Does he have any problems with alcohol or drugs? Is he violent in any way? All I can say is whatever you do, go slowly, very, very, slowly.

 

[Murphster]

Thanks for all of your replies.

As per some of the questions Listener raised, yes he is a responsible person. I know that this sounds like some episode from a cheap talk show, but he is actually a devout Catholic and a successful attorney in NYC.

Yes he put me through some major emotional upheavel and I have spent the last year and a half sorting through those emotions and choosing to move on. It is very disturbing to have some of my old feelings resurface, especially when I have begun to have some very serious feelings for the person I have been getting to know over catholicmatch.com.

Yes, my BIL was a witness for me. Which makes it all the more disquieting and upsetting and traumatizing.

I suppose I am just feeling unsure about what to do next, both about my ex-husband and this new relationship, as either action will affect both of them, myself and my twins.

As far as anyone “recognizing” me and reading this thread…I am not that concerned about it. But thanks for the heads up.

 

[stbruno]

Hopefully, your ex-husband is supplying child support for your twins. If not, you need to see a lawyer. If you both are still talking to each other, that’s a beginning for your children. They are the ones who you need to concern yourself with right now. Perhaps with time, healing and maybe even some reconciliation and counseling as a family,your life as parents to these boys may cause you both to resolve your issues and come back together. However, in the meantime, don’t force any issues. Your annulment is valid. And at the core of everything, pray! Pray and Pray some more!

 

[chevalier]

Well, I’m not a canonist, but I had a course in Canon Law (specifically marital cases) during my civil law studies. Although this is by no means anything close to legal advice, I can try to help you.

First, you must understand that there is no such thing as annulment. There is only declaration of nullity. The marriage is either valid or null and void from the beginning and the Church can do nothing about this. The tribunal can only declare the marriage valid or invalid according to its knowledge. And no, the tribunal isn’t infallible. It’s a statement of knowledge.

In this light, yes, new information may put an existing verdict in a new light. Especially if this includes a witness lying or someone working against the marriage or in favour of the marriage but against the will of the nupturients.

Without confronting me about the information he had previously received from my BIL, my husband left me once the pregnancy was confirmed. He also admitted to me that three days before our wedding, he had slept with a bridesmaid (in anger and hurt after receiving the information from my BIL about my supposed unfaithfulness).

If he had left you without even checking who was the father, it says something about his maturity at the given time. If he slept with a bridesmaid and still vowed permanent love and commitment to you three days after, something was obviously wrong. Especially, much was wrong about first sleeping with a bridesmaid and then asking you if you had been faithful. In the state he was, he seems to have been:

• in denial when promising you love, fidelity and commitment immediately after acting the way he did
• undecided whether he really wanted to marry you
• unlikely to realise what marital union really was
• undecided about indissolubility
• in no condition to make lifelong commitment and take oaths due to his emotional state

He filed for divorce and I immediately pursued an annulment, as it appeared to me that he was not open to children and he did not understand fidelity in marriage, if he cheated on me right before our marriage.

If the tribunal recognised only the lack of openness to children as the sole nullity ground, then you might be in trouble. But the lack of understanding of fidelity is practically obvious. If they recognised it, the other title falling off doesn’t undermine the verdict.

I realize now that it wasn’t my ex-husband’s lack of understanding about marriage nor his dislike for children that caused the demise of our marriage, but my BIL’s lie.

It looks like you still love your “ex” husband because you still seem to be unable to blame him. But from the point of view of someone who isn’t emotionally involved, it seems to me that his attitude contributed to the disaster even at least as much if not more than the BIL’s lie.

My ex-husband wishes to see his children and possibly reconcile.

Please don’t take my openness against me, but if it involved marrying your “ex” husband again, I would really suggest you didn’t do that.

However, I am unclear what to do about this because I have begun to move on.

That is not a concern. The concern is whether the verdict of nullity was in error or not. If you had reasonable doubt about the verdict and still moved on, it would be accepting that your prior marriage might have been valid without investigating it.

But, I am worried that my responsibility should be to give my (ex?)husband a second chance for the good of my girls and possibly because we were intended to be together, if not still validly married in the eyes of God

As I suspect, that could be your real problem even more than the question of the nullity of your marriage. The fact that you invalidly attempted marriage with someone doesn’t create any obligation for you to attempt to marry that person validly. Nothing can guarantee that your marriage will be successful and that the god of your children will be secured.

Perhaps God is giving you a chance to reconcile with your “ex”. But perhaps God has given you a chance to free yourself from him. I suppose you should perhaps consider both these possibilities. At any rate, there is no obligation for you - legal, moral or whatever else - to try and marry him validly.

If it reaches beyond the validity of your marriage and you wonder whether you want to return to him or not, it’s question you need to answer yourself, in your heart.

(continued below)

 

[chevalier]

(continued)

My ex husband says he did not have doubt at the moment of marriage because he asked me about it the night before, and that it wasn’t until later on our wedding night and the morning after that it began to unravel for him.

It didn’t come out of nowhere. If a volcano erupts on April the 11th, it doesn’t mean that everything was still on April the 10th.

But, his actions basically both before and after our vows would indicate that he did have doubt and reservation, even if it was utterly unfounded.

It doesn’t matter if the reservation was founded or not, his state of mind is sufficient. Of course, if the reservation had been founded, it would have spoken against your marriage even more strongly, but the reservation alone can be sufficient. Also, if someone has unfounded reservations and acts on them, it can also say something about his state of mind.

Your diocesan tribunal declared that your marriage was not sacramental. For every declaration of nullity, there is another see which checks to see that the originating one acted properly. It seems that your husband had a grave error regarding the belief of the indissolubility of marriage.
The Church has spoken. Pray, and move on.

Not the infallible Church per se, but the tribunal. Their verdict is as good as their knowledge. I think it doesn’t often happen that a marriage is invalid on just one account, as there always seems to be a more complex and far-reaching problem, but, with all respect, if we accept a verdict as still valid without thinking much on it even after we learn of witnesses lying, we put ourselves in the risk of deluding ourselves.

First of all, instead of “reasonable”, the standard used by the marriage tribunal is much higher, that of “morally certain”.

Morally certain in the light of the information they have, obviously.

Second of all, “based on the information given” needs to be understood in the context of canon 1060, whereby any information that is not known is presumed to be in favor of the validity of the marriage.

Which still doesn’t address information which is known and known wrongly. The fact that a different factor was compensationally used in favour of the marriage doesn’t automatically legitimatise a factor in favour of nullity which arouse out of a deliberate lie and action purposely intended to prevent or destroy the marriage.

Thus, when a marriage tribunal issues a declaration of nullity, it means that they are morally certain that the information submitted, in and of itself, was sufficient to prove the nullity of the marriage.

And assuming that the information was true. At any rate, I would personally agree that the information the tribunal received was sufficient to declare the marriage null. I would only be worried if the tribunal had acted on the grounds of lack of openness to children - although, if they actually accepted that, they probably had good reasons for it, other than just the fact he didn’t want to have anything to do with children he didn’t think were his own. At any rate, the tribunal did know that he thought the children weren’t his own and that they actually were his, so, in fact, the lack of openness to children might indeed have been the case, as well.

So, to sum up, I wouldn’t assign any religious value to the verdicts of church tribunals, let alone ignore the possible effect of dishonest witnesses, but it does seem reasonable to assume that the verdict is valid in this case.

However, I would still suggest consulting the same tribunal. Just in case.

 

[demolitionman65]

Fr. Serpa has replied. I urge you to follow the answer he provided.

 

[Murphster]

I saw that, demolitionman. Thanks for pointing it out. I appreciate the thoughts of all those who posted.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

I’ve know of a couple that had an annulment then went their separate ways and then reunited twenty years later. I don’t know if their annulment was valid or if they had to remarry.

Yours is such an interesting story. I read Father Vincent’s Reply. Do you have any updates on the situation?

 

[Murphster]

GloriaPatri4:

I’ve know of a couple that had an annulment then went their separate ways and then reunited twenty years later. I don’t know if their annulment was valid or if they had to remarry.

Yours is such an interesting story. I read Father Vincent’s Reply. Do you have any updates on the situation?

Everything is just really difficult right now.

My ex-husband wants to see the girls, though I am not convinced it is a good idea. He severed all rights to them and I am hesitant to give him access based on his previous actions.

My emotional feelings are still very much tied up in the new person I have been getting to know over the last several months, from catholicmatch.com. He is a doctoral student in dentistry and I have been wrapping up my involvement in my non-profit organization (in order to be a full-time mommy), so we decided to wait unti this summer to meet, when our obligations would be less demanding (he would be out of school, i will have stepped down from my position at work, etc). But, now that this information has come to light, both of us feel unsure as to what to do. He wants to meet and continue to get to know each other, in hopes of settling the issue with the annulment. I am worried that if I end up being validly married, it will pose a very serious hurt to both of us, and/or the temptation to not follow the Church’s ruling, so I am not convinced that meeting is a good thing, despite how much I want to.

I spoke with the priest who officiated the wedding between my ex-husband and I, and he was very concerned about the new information. My decree of nullity was based on my ex’s defective consent (as per his actions both before and after the wedding). However, defective consent is sort of a catch-all used by tribunals in the US and not generally upheld by Rome. In fact, 90% of “defective consent” rulings are overturned when given back to Rome to decide. My ex husband is now very interested in overturning the ruling and getting back together with me.

I don’t feel that getting back together with him is an option at this time. In the future, possibly, if it were to be declared that we were indeed validly married. He has also shared that he did not actually sleep with my bridesmaid before our wedding, that he entertained the idea in a sorrowful and vengeful state, and only told me that to hurt my feelings. She has since verified that no, they did not sleep together. Since my ex did not participate in the investigation (he demanded a face to face interview and instead was told he had to fill out the forms and questionnaire first, which for whatever reason did not sit well with him), it seems that a lot of truth was not revealed. My BIL did a lot of damage with his lies.

I am just very confused about what to do. It looks like I will have to go through another tribunal intake procedure, with probably an investigation to follow, and my ex husband is claiming he will take the matter to Rome if necessary.

My sister is actually my twin sister, and before finding out this information from her husband, we were extremely close. Now it has caused a major rift in the family. We are two of nine children, and my parents have been deceased for many years. Most of my aunts and uncles live in Ireland, though we do have extended family here that we are not close to due to other reasons. I feel like I am losing everyone I care about. I am only 26 years old and I feel like I might be asked to live a life without love for the rest of my life. It scares me.

But thank you for asking. I don’t have a lot of people to talk to about this.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Yes indeed your brother in-law did do alot of damage Has he apologized to you and your husband?I feel for you and you are in my prayers.God bless

 

[GloriaPatri4]

Murphster:

Everything is just really difficult right now.

My ex-husband wants to see the girls, though I am not convinced it is a good idea. He severed all rights to them and I am hesitant to give him access based on his previous actions.

My emotional feelings are still very much tied up in the new person I have been getting to know over the last several months, from catholicmatch.com. He is a doctoral student in dentistry and I have been wrapping up my involvement in my non-profit organization (in order to be a full-time mommy), so we decided to wait unti this summer to meet, when our obligations would be less demanding (he would be out of school, i will have stepped down from my position at work, etc). But, now that this information has come to light, both of us feel unsure as to what to do. He wants to meet and continue to get to know each other, in hopes of settling the issue with the annulment. I am worried that if I end up being validly married, it will pose a very serious hurt to both of us, and/or the temptation to not follow the Church’s ruling, so I am not convinced that meeting is a good thing, despite how much I want to.

I spoke with the priest who officiated the wedding between my ex-husband and I, and he was very concerned about the new information. My decree of nullity was based on my ex’s defective consent (as per his actions both before and after the wedding). However, defective consent is sort of a catch-all used by tribunals in the US and not generally upheld by Rome. In fact, 90% of “defective consent” rulings are overturned when given back to Rome to decide. My ex husband is now very interested in overturning the ruling and getting back together with me.

I don’t feel that getting back together with him is an option at this time. In the future, possibly, if it were to be declared that we were indeed validly married. He has also shared that he did not actually sleep with my bridesmaid before our wedding, that he entertained the idea in a sorrowful and vengeful state, and only told me that to hurt my feelings. She has since verified that no, they did not sleep together. Since my ex did not participate in the investigation (he demanded a face to face interview and instead was told he had to fill out the forms and questionnaire first, which for whatever reason did not sit well with him), it seems that a lot of truth was not revealed. My BIL did a lot of damage with his lies.

I am just very confused about what to do. It looks like I will have to go through another tribunal intake procedure, with probably an investigation to follow, and my ex husband is claiming he will take the matter to Rome if necessary.

My sister is actually my twin sister, and before finding out this information from her husband, we were extremely close. Now it has caused a major rift in the family. We are two of nine children, and my parents have been deceased for many years. Most of my aunts and uncles live in Ireland, though we do have extended family here that we are not close to due to other reasons. I feel like I am losing everyone I care about. I am only 26 years old and I feel like I might be asked to live a life without love for the rest of my life. It scares me.

But thank you for asking. I don’t have a lot of people to talk to about this.

Perhaps the both of you should consider counseling with a priest who has experience with these situations. May I ask how old you were when the two of you exchanged vows? Youth has alot to do with irrational life affecting decisions that leave damaging lasting consequences. Maybe your ex realizes this now.

Have you spoke with a priest from your diocese Marriage Tribunal to verify whether your annulment was valid or not. I would think it would be best to find that out first before any other contact with this other fellow. If your ex is truly sorry for his actions wouldn’t it be best to give him a chance?

Please don’t take offense to this but this story would sure make an interesting Novel. Wow what a story. I hope it has a happy ending.

I will be praying for you.

 

[chevalier]

In that case, I would really suggest putting off all marriage plans till later. You are doing right in trying to contact the diocesan tribunal and settle the matter. And yes, going to Rome with it is probably a good idea. There is a chance that you are validly married. How strong I don’t know, but there is one and it’s not a negligible one.