Is my belief in flat earth heretical?

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HouseUponRock

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Flat Earth is my personal interpretation of Scriptures, and also supported by Tradition (John Chrysostom, who wrote Liturgy I attend on Sundays), and also Church (Pope Zachary declared belief in antipodes heretical). Paul said Satan is “the god of this world”, and Jesus said Satan is “the father of all lies”. Put those together, and massive conspiracy is more than plausible to pull off the lie of globe, heliocentrism, etc.

It is my knowledge that globularists and heliocentrists are not heretics according to Church, so I respect your beliefs and am in no power to dictate doctrines as I have no authority. For this reason, I seek to find out if my belief is orthodox. If some Popes or Church Fathers condemned flat earth, please, I need to see the citations and I am willing to change.

Please don’t show me pictures of NASA or “scientific evidence”, I believe modern “science” is Satan’s modern tool to undermine Christianity, since Islam failed.
 
I don’t believe it would be considered heretical, but saying that science is Satan’s work is, in my opinion, absolutely absurd. The earth is not flat, and that is a fact. Science does not undermine Christianity in the least; in fact, it often strengthens it. See Dr. William Lane Craig’s works on that subject.
 
I have some problems with modern cosmology;

Heaven and sky are identical in Scriptures.

What about Tower of Babel? God punished the Babylonians for building the Tower that stretches to Heaven. Now there are claims that humans even went to the Moon, and God does nothing about it? That’s inconsistent.

What about Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, Mary going up to Heaven? We know that God lives on top of the Heavens, did they travel trillion upon trillions of miles? That just seems absurd to me.

Bible clearly speaks that God sits on top of Heaven, in modern cosmology there is no such thing as top or bottom, especially with antipodes.
 
HouseUponRock said:
I have some problems with modern cosmology;

Heaven and sky are identical in Scriptures.

What about Tower of Babel? God punished the Babylonians for building the Tower that stretches to Heaven. Now there are claims that humans even went to the Moon, and God does nothing about it? That’s inconsistent.

What about Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, Mary going up to Heaven? We know that God lives on top of the Heavens, did they travel trillion upon trillions of miles? That just seems absurd to me.

Bible clearly speaks that God sits on top of Heaven, in modern cosmology there is no such thing as top or bottom, especially with antipodes.
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Maybe it is time for you to start deepening your theological understandings rather than ignoring the facts. Catholics have a moral obligation to use reason, we are not justified to act ignorant just to reconcile a poor understanding of things with what we asume as teachings of the Curch.
 
HouseUponRock said:
I have some problems with modern cosmology;

Heaven and sky are identical in Scriptures.

What about Tower of Babel? God punished the Babylonians for building the Tower that stretches to Heaven. Now there are claims that humans even went to the Moon, and God does nothing about it? That’s inconsistent.

What about Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, Mary going up to Heaven? We know that God lives on top of the Heavens, did they travel trillion upon trillions of miles? That just seems absurd to me.

Bible clearly speaks that God sits on top of Heaven, in modern cosmology there is no such thing as top or bottom, especially with antipodes.
Click to expand...
Are you thinking of the material universe? God is not limited to the material universe, however science is. Enoch, Elijah and Mary may have exited the material universe, outside of time, to be with God.

God is not against us learning the ways of nature. He is however against human arrogance which is what the Tower of Babel represented. I think that scientific advances are brought about not by the answers we give but by the questions we ask. Humility is a must if one were to ask the good questions.
 
Rand_Al_Thor said:
I don’t believe it would be considered heretical, but saying that science is Satan’s work is, in my opinion, absolutely absurd. The earth is not flat, and that is a fact. Science does not undermine Christianity in the least; in fact, it often strengthens it. See Dr. William Lane Craig’s works on that subject.
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I agree with this. I am reminded of this as well; ‘truth cannot contradict truth.’

The Earth as a sphere has been known by many scholars since the time of the Ancient Greeks.
 
HouseUponRock said:
Flat Earth is my personal interpretation of Scriptures, and also supported by Tradition (John Chrysostom, who wrote Liturgy I attend on Sundays), and also Church (Pope Zachary declared belief in antipodes heretical). Paul said Satan is “the god of this world”, and Jesus said Satan is “the father of all lies”. Put those together, and massive conspiracy is more than plausible to pull off the lie of globe, heliocentrism, etc.

It is my knowledge that globularists and heliocentrists are not heretics according to Church, so I respect your beliefs and am in no power to dictate doctrines as I have no authority. For this reason, I seek to find out if my belief is orthodox. If some Popes or Church Fathers condemned flat earth, please, I need to see the citations and I am willing to change.

Please don’t show me pictures of NASA or “scientific evidence”, I believe modern “science” is Satan’s modern tool to undermine Christianity, since Islam failed.
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Is your belief heretical? I don’t think so, it seems non-theological to me.

I’m curious where St. John Chrysostom denies a spherical earth? The idea has been well established for at least 3,000 years.

Also I would assume that the denunciation of belief in antipodes (having not read it myself) is in reference to a medieval belief that the earths land had to be counter-balanced by land on the opposite side, something which is quite false.

Edit: I found Pope Zachary’s condemnation on Catholic Encyclopedia. He condemned as heretics those who believe “that beneath the earth there was another world and other men, another sun and moon”. This is held both by Science, and the Church as false.
Also noteworthy on the page is St. Augustine’s own condemnation of the idea, intrinsic in which is the denial of the concept of timezones. Proof positive that even saints are fallible.
newadvent.org/cathen/01581a.htm
 
Galileo wasn’t the first who vouched for a round earth, he just did it really badly. Scientists have known about it for ages.

The Tower Of Babel was destroyed because it was about arrogance and human pride, not the exploration and discovery of God’s creation. If it were being buit as an observatory instead of a shrine to human ego, things would have more than likely been different.
 
Christianus_Dei said:
Galileo wasn’t the first who vouched for a round earth, he just did it really badly. Scientists have known about it for ages.
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Galileo didn’t vouch for a round earth, that was accepted in his day. His big thing was the heliocentric, rather than the formerly believed geocentric, universe.
 
HouseUponRock said:
I have some problems with modern cosmology;
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Vatican Observatory.
The Pontifical Academy of Sciences was founded in 1936 by Pope Pius XI. It is placed under the protection of the reigning Supreme Pontiff (the current Pope). Its aim is to promote the progress of the mathematical, physical and natural sciences and the study of related epistemological problems. The Academy has its origins in the Accademia Pontificia dei Nuovi Lincei (“Pontifical Academy of the New Lynxes”), founded in 1847 intended as a more closely supervised successor to the Accademia dei Lincei (“Academy of Lynxes”) established in Rome in 1603, by the learned Roman Prince, Federico Cesi (1585–1630) who was a young botanist and naturalist, and which claimed Galileo Galilei as its president. The Academy has an international membership which includes British physicist Stephen Hawking and Nobel laureates such as U.S. physicist Charles Hard Townes.
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The Vatican Observatory (Specola Vaticana) is an astronomical research and educational institution supported by the Holy See. Originally based in Rome, it now has headquarters and laboratory at the summer residence of the Pope in Castel Gandolfo, Italy, and an observatory at the Mount Graham International Observatory in the United States. The Director of the Observatory is Fr. José Gabriel Funes, SJ. Many distinguished scholars have worked at the Observatory. In 2008, the Templeton Prize was awarded to cosmologist Fr. Michał Heller, a Vatican Observatory Adjunct Scholar. In 2010, the George Van Biesbroeck Prize was awarded to former observatory director Fr. George Coyne, SJ.
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Maybe you should write to them or go visit. Possibly though, you should know that the Church does not teach that the literal meaning of Scripture must be applied in all cases, in all books, or even at all times within books. Our present Pope once wrote that the first 13 chapters of Genesis were “mythological in nature.” The Catechism says the story in Genesis of Adam and Eve is told in “figurative language.”

But I see no reason why you shouldn’t believe whatever makes you comfortable. There’s nothing in the Creed about the shape of the Earth as far as I know. Or trolling.
 
Nine_Two said:
Galileo didn’t vouch for a round earth, that was accepted in his day. His big thing was the heliocentric, rather than the formerly believed geocentric, universe.
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Oh, wait… duh… sorry. I’m distracted by finals and I’m somewhat tired.
 
Maybe it’s just me today, but I’ve no idea what this thread is doing in the Eastern Catholicism forum. :confused:
 
Immacolata said:
I agree with this. I am reminded of this as well; ‘truth cannot contradict truth.’

The Earth as a sphere has been known by many scholars since the time of the Ancient Greeks.
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Anyone who looked at a large body of water could see it was rounded.

Isaiah 40:22 states that God “sits above the circle of the earth.”
 
It is true that some Popes called Genesis to be mythological, but those are personal opinions and not infallible dogmas. I believe there were Popes that were influenced by Arianism and Monothelitism in the past. As for “circle of earth”, I believe the earth is circular and has a canopy of water over it. I reject the notion that Earth is a sphere, but rather a cylinder.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Christian_Church

In his Homilies Concerning the Statutes[81] St. John Chrysostom (344–408) explicitly espoused the idea, based on his reading of Scripture, that the Earth floated on the waters gathered below the firmament, and St. Athanasius (c.293–373) expressed similar views in Against the Heathen.[82]

So my question has been answered, my belief is NOT heretical. The rest is scientific, rather than theological, debate.
 
By the way, the theory of globe was introduced by Greek philosophers. The idea was introduced to Jewish people by Macedonians. It was unknown by Moses and ancient Israelites.
 
HouseUponRock said:
I believe the earth is circular and has a canopy of water over it. I reject the notion that Earth is a sphere, but rather a cylinder.
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I’m curious as to why you believe so? Is there a particular reason or is it simply tradition? What about satellite photos, etc. of Earth in space that shows it as a sphere? No disrespect meant, just curious.
 
HouseUponRock said:
I have some problems with modern cosmology;

Heaven and sky are identical in Scriptures.

What about Tower of Babel? God punished the Babylonians for building the Tower that stretches to Heaven. Now there are claims that humans even went to the Moon, and God does nothing about it? That’s inconsistent.

What about Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, Mary going up to Heaven? We know that God lives on top of the Heavens, did they travel trillion upon trillions of miles? That just seems absurd to me.

Bible clearly speaks that God sits on top of Heaven, in modern cosmology there is no such thing as top or bottom, especially with antipodes.
Click to expand...
I think you are having us on! But anyway…

The ancient Israelites didn’t understand science as you and I today. It is extremely important to understand the genre and how the original readers would have understood it, to get at an accurate understanding of the literal sense of scripture. As it is with the creation account, there is evidence they understood creation as a macrocosm of their Tabernacle and later Temples.

A recommendation for you.

goodreads.com/book/show/96164.A_Father_Who_Keeps_His_Promises
 
HouseUponRock said:
It is true that some Popes called Genesis to be mythological, but those are personal opinions and not infallible dogmas. I believe there were Popes that were influenced by Arianism and Monothelitism in the past. As for “circle of earth”, I believe the earth is circular and has a canopy of water over it. I reject the notion that Earth is a sphere, but rather a cylinder.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Christian_Church

In his Homilies Concerning the Statutes[81] St. John Chrysostom (344–408) explicitly espoused the idea, based on his reading of Scripture, that the Earth floated on the waters gathered below the firmament, and St. Athanasius (c.293–373) expressed similar views in Against the Heathen.[82]

So my question has been answered, my belief is NOT heretical. The rest is scientific, rather than theological, debate.
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they were wrong and so are you.
 
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