Is my belief in flat earth heretical?

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Allegra said:
Don’t forget the hundreds of thousands of navigators of ships and airline personel that depend on the knowlege of the shape of the earth in order to get from one place to another. How they get all of them to lie as well?
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I did not forget them, I was jus using them as two excamples. 😃 😛
 
Allegra said:
This HAS to be a joke. Someone somewhere is having a laugh trying to see how long they can get people to pretend to take this seriously.
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I’m afraid it isn’t. You search for can search for the Flat Earth Society using Google or Bing.

The flat earth idea is still alive and well.
 
It is really offensive that some fellow Catholics think I am in sin of lying to you. This is sadly disappointing.

Since this question is answered, this thread can be closed.
 
HouseUponRock said:
I have some problems with modern cosmology;

Heaven and sky are identical in Scriptures.

What about Tower of Babel? God punished the Babylonians for building the Tower that stretches to Heaven. Now there are claims that humans even went to the Moon, and God does nothing about it? That’s inconsistent.

What about Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, Mary going up to Heaven? We know that God lives on top of the Heavens, did they travel trillion upon trillions of miles? That just seems absurd to me.

Bible clearly speaks that God sits on top of Heaven, in modern cosmology there is no such thing as top or bottom, especially with antipodes.
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In reference to heaven, yes and no. The Hebrew word for sky does apply to heaven, but there were also beliefs in multiple heavens or levels of heaven. Some believed in three, others said seven. See 2 Corinthians 12., where Paul makes an explicit reference to third heaven.

As far as the tower of babel… we also have airplanes. Their ability to go up into the sky far higher than any building could should be enough to show you that literal height is not the issue.

The ascensions of Christ, Enoch, Elijah and, possibly, Mary were also miracles. I do not think space time is a problem for God. Furthermore, we must wonder if heaven heaven is a matter of height, or a matter of another dimension or realm.

The Bible also uses poetry and prose to get some of its messages across. It is also written in a cultural context… There is no reason to be a literalness on such issues.

Dear brother, I love you in the Spirit of our lord Jesus Christ. We are brothers and I encourage you to continue seeking the Lord. However, I must also admonish you. I ask that you would thoroughly and sincerely seek out these matters, because you are making our faith look foolish. Do not be deceived by the world, but do not be deluded by a biased, unexamined view of the Scriptures.
 
Would Saints John Chrysostom and Athanasius be liars too? At their time round earth was almost universally accepted.
 
ApologiaSophia said:
In reference to heaven, yes and no. The Hebrew word for sky does apply to heaven, but there were also beliefs in multiple heavens or levels of heaven. Some believed in three, others said seven. See 2 Corinthians 12., where Paul makes an explicit reference to third heaven.

As far as the tower of babel… we also have airplanes. Their ability to go up into the sky far higher than any building could should be enough to show you that literal height is not the issue.

The ascensions of Christ, Enoch, Elijah and, possibly, Mary were also miracles. I do not think space time is a problem for God. Furthermore, we must wonder if heaven heaven is a matter of height, or a matter of another dimension or realm.

The Bible also uses poetry and prose to get some of its messages across. It is also written in a cultural context… There is no reason to be a literalness on such issues.

Dear brother, I love you in the Spirit of our lord Jesus Christ. We are brothers and I encourage you to continue seeking the Lord. However, I must also admonish you. I ask that you would thoroughly and sincerely seek out these matters, because you are making our faith look foolish. Do not be deceived by the world, but do not be deluded by a biased, unexamined view of the Scriptures.
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I acknowledge the existence of 3 heavens. Book of Isaiah says somewhere that God’s Throne is IN the firmament. If you really need the reference, I can find it for you. We can agree that God’s Throne is in 3rd Heaven, so then it is logical that all 3 heavens are IN the firmament. The 1st Heaven is where the clouds are, and where the planes fly. I do no believe humans have gotten higher than that. 2nd Heaven is where Sun, Moon, and Stars are located. 3rd Heaven is where God’s Throne is and where Enoch, Elijah, and Jesus went. Surrounding Earth and the Firmament of Heaven is a canopy of water, it is unclear if it is liquid or ice.
 
You believe I am mistaken, but some users believe I am lying.
 
Yes I am aware that there is trolling going on. However,

“He who answers before listening–that is his folly and his shame.” Proverbs 18:13

Of course, this message is not directed to you, brother. 🙂
 
HouseUponRock said:
I acknowledge the existence of 3 heavens. Book of Isaiah says somewhere that God’s Throne is IN the firmament. If you really need the reference, I can find it for you. We can agree that God’s Throne is in 3rd Heaven, so then it is logical that all 3 heavens are IN the firmament. The 1st Heaven is where the clouds are, and where the planes fly. I do no believe humans have gotten higher than that. 2nd Heaven is where Sun, Moon, and Stars are located. 3rd Heaven is where God’s Throne is and where Enoch, Elijah, and Jesus went. Surrounding Earth and the Firmament of Heaven is a canopy of water, it is unclear if it is liquid or ice.
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Well my friend, I suppose it comes down to this. You can either 1) find a single scientist of the faith who agrees with and supports your cosmology to back up your claims OR 2) you begin studying and researching science as it relates to cosmology and verify it for yourself. Every scientist I have ever know, brethren or not, disagrees with your cosmology. It is unanimous. If they are liars you must support your claim. If they are wrong you must show evidence, which Scripture and Church Fathers are not concerning this particular issue. Using Scripture to support your claim is just presupposing that your interpretation and understanding of the Scripture is correct. Ancient Israelites did seem to have a cosmology as the one you have described. Their views were a mixture of mistaken, misguided, or incomplete. There is an option 3 which is that you continue to espouse this cosmology, without having examined the subject matter itself, and continue making the faith look foolish which is shameful to us, your kindred in Christ, and to Christ himself. If you are correct than you will be a great hero of our faith, though you cannot show you cosmology true or false without studying cosmology as opposed to what some Saints and verses of Scripture might say about cosmology. My plea is that you please study cosmology before assuming the error of cosmologists. To do so is prideful and apathetic.

In all of this, I say, may our love in Christ abound.
 
ApologiaSophia said:
Well my friend, I suppose it comes down to this. You can either 1) find a single scientist of the faith who agrees with and supports your cosmology to back up your claims OR 2) you begin studying and researching science as it relates to cosmology and verify it for yourself. Every scientist I have ever know, brethren or not, disagrees with your cosmology. It is unanimous. If they are liars you must support your claim. If they are wrong you must show evidence, which Scripture and Church Fathers are not concerning this particular issue. Using Scripture to support your claim is just presupposing that your interpretation and understanding of the Scripture is correct. Ancient Israelites did seem to have a cosmology as the one you have described. Their views were a mixture of mistaken, misguided, or incomplete. There is an option 3 which is that you continue to espouse this cosmology, without having examined the subject matter itself, and continue making the faith look foolish which is shameful to us, your kindred in Christ, and to Christ himself. If you are correct than you will be a great hero of our faith, though you cannot show you cosmology true or false without studying cosmology as opposed to what some Saints and verses of Scripture might say about cosmology. My plea is that you please study cosmology before assuming the error of cosmologists. To do so is prideful and apathetic.

In all of this, I say, may our love in Christ abound.
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I do plan to do some experiments in future to verify my claim. Of course, I am open minded and open to all possibilities. 👍
 
april32010 said:
they were wrong and so are you.
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The passage by St. John Chrysostom is on the wiki page he linked. I would interprete it as Chrysostom saying the land rests upon the waters. This is still scientifically incorrect, but it isn’t advocating flat earth.
 
Nine_Two said:
The passage by St. John Chrysostom is on the wiki page he linked. I would interprete it as Chrysostom saying the land rests upon the waters. This is still scientifically incorrect, but it isn’t advocating flat earth.
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The continents do not rest on water. There is land below the oceans and it connects with the continents. However, there is water BELOW that ground under the oceans. How deep is the ground before we reach waters? No one knows. But in 1st chapter of Bible we see that waters came first, and THEN land. Modern oceans are the result of the Great Deluge. So St John Chrysostom is correct in saying land rests on water.
 
HouseUponRock said:
Circumnavigation and international dateline are possible with this map.

relativelyinteresting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/modern+flat+earth+map.png

As you can see, there is no such thing as continent Antarctica or the South Pole. Instead, there is a giant Ice Wall around the circle of Earth. Beyond this Ice Wall, as well as below Earth, is a lot of Water. There is a canopy of water (perhaps ice) over entire Earth and Firmament of Heaven.
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That map doesn’t explain why the equator is hotter and the poles colder. And while you can draw time zones on that map, how do you explain the motion of the sun so as to give day in one part, and night in another? The sun must hit everything at once, or nothing. Drawing lines on the map doesn’t make it compatible with the concept.

Additionally if the earth truly is flat, then there is a vast conspiracy, involving hundreds of millions, to cover it up, but what is there to gain with such a conspiracy?
 
Nine_Two said:
That map doesn’t explain why the equator is hotter and the poles colder. And while you can draw time zones on that map, how do you explain the motion of the sun so as to give day in one part, and night in another? The sun must hit everything at once, or nothing. Drawing lines on the map doesn’t make it compatible with the concept.

Additionally if the earth truly is flat, then there is a vast conspiracy, involving hundreds of millions, to cover it up, but what is there to gain with such a conspiracy?
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There is only one pole in flat earth model. Sun, Moon, and Stars rotate across the Earth daily on the Equator.

I believe in conspiracy. The purpose is to undermine the importance of Earth and make it look like “just another planet” with no significance. Making people feel worthless, it gives Satan greater power to rule over them.
 
HouseUponRock said:
There is only one pole in flat earth model. Sun, Moon, and Stars rotate across the Earth daily on the Equator.

I believe in conspiracy. The purpose is to undermine the importance of Earth and make it look like “just another planet” with no significance. Making people feel worthless, it gives Satan greater power to rule over them.
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I don’t know why you would believe this. It just doesn’t make sense. It isn’t prudent to believe this. Is it heretical? Probably not, but God wants all to come to knowledge of the truth, and science helps us understand God’s creation. It’s a fact that the world is round. If anything, this helps us understand how great God is and how prideful we are to assume we are the center of the universe–Christ is.
 
HouseUponRock said:
There is only one pole in flat earth model. Sun, Moon, and Stars rotate across the Earth daily on the Equator.

I believe in conspiracy. The purpose is to undermine the importance of Earth and make it look like “just another planet” with no significance. Making people feel worthless, it gives Satan greater power to rule over them.
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Except even if it’s just another planet, it’s VERY significant. Namely because it’s the only one we’ve ever found (intelligent) life on.
 
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