Is my comic book blasphemous/sacrilegious?

[Spirithound]

Poitreene…
I’ll have to give her clothes, though. Since in all images or appearances of Poitreene, she’s nude (though she’s covered up by her wings or by silk sheets, etc.)

I’d probably keep her nude, although with liberal and modest use of strategic cover-ups, like wings or silk sheets and stuff. Nudity, especially in a higher being tends to indicate that they actually are a higher being, as opposed to the rest of us who use clothing.

The same goes with the habit. I can’t really put them in “modern” habits because this doesn’t take place in modern society

Just sayin’…I was under the impression that alot of “modern” habits actually are the medieval habits

So, as I have perused this thread (which I have just learned means to read thoroughly ), I’m becoming rather happier with this. The relationship between priest and nun is not really shown in the anime, so you’ve said you can just not mention it altogether, most of the nuns wear habits, but 2 don’t. Perhaps they have the “charism” of physical/spiritual warfare? Just, you know, try to keep them more or less moral…no sexual liaisons, no beating up on innocents. As you’ve said earlier, clearly they can’t wear the full habits, they’ve gotta fight. So, they need outfits conducive to battle.
So, do it man! Peace

 

[The_Otaku]

Here is the list of Question & Answers I asked myself so as to examine more closely the issues I felt would directly impact my continuing to make my doujinshi. These 10 questions and answers also serve as guidance for you, the Moral Theology readers, in helping give your final stamp of approval or denial on this project. I hope the information is helpful in your analysis.

After you’ve given your final (name removed by moderator)ut, I will conclude this thread, and ask a moderator to close it, so that it doesn’t keep getting bumped. Thanks again, in advance, to all those who will post and especially those who have posted multiple times. I appreciate your patience with me, your tolerance of my longwinded posts, and for not being judgemental or jumping the gun. This whole thread was an effort to do the right thing, on my part, and I feel I’ve exhausted all possible options and questions.

If you still have questions or concerns, or wish to offer additional suggestions, please feel free. This will be your last chance to do so.

Thanks again, everyone, and God bless!

P.S: To the moderators: If the pictures I’ve provided are too risque, please feel free to delete the links to them, and I will provide the links privately to members wishing to analyze them.

Q: Can you give an introduction to this game, and the theme of your fan comic (doujinshi)?
A: To quote the strategy guide for the game: “Prier, a young orphan raised to follow the teachings of the Church of the Holy Maiden, has held tight to her dream of becoming the Maiden of Light. To this end, she became a Sister of the church. She also passed her Demon Destruction Exam to join La Pucelle, a team dedicated to protecting the world from demons. In a time when the forces of light and darkness are about to enter into their epic confrontation yet again, Prier and her companions learn not just about their own realm, but about the nature of friendship, love, and redemption.”

Q: Can you describe the church in this game?
A: Taken from the strategy guide:

"In the years that followed the battle of the Maiden of Light and the Dark Prince, the world has had a time of relative peace and security. With the blessing of the royal family of the Kingdom of Paprica, Father Salade founded the Church of the Holy Maiden, whose worshippers attempt to spread peace and trainquility through the blessings of the benevolent goddess Poitreene.

To aid in the protection of the world against demons, La Pucelle was formed through the Church to help cleanse the land of Dark Energy. This Dark Energy corrupts and taints the land around it, causing sickness and pain, and bringing forth demons. La Pucelle tracks down these demons, giving these lost souls a chance for peace while purifying the Dark Energy.

Prier and her brother Culotte were raised in St. Girls Orphanage under the teachings of the Church of the Holy Maiden. Both of them passed their Demon Destruction Exam and are members of La Pucelle. As novice Demon Hunters, Prier and Culotte are under the guidance of veteran Alouette, and together they are attempting to help those in need and heal the land around them. The path that await Prier and her friends is a difficult one. They must face dangerous monsters and demons, sinister force with malevolent intentions, and difficult moral choices. Still, these things can all be overcome with the skill and the powers of friendship, hope, and faith."

My doujinshi is a continuation of the story, 5 years after the events of the game, but the above quotes sum up rather nicely the same themes in my manga.

Hare are some shots of the two churches featured in the game (and Culotte’s bedroom) :

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=maidenoflightchurchfront.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=maidenoflightchurchsanctuary.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=maidenoflightchurchsanctuary2.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=divinemotherchurchsanctuary.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=culottesroom.jpg

Q: Can you describe the main characters and provide images of them?
A: The following bios are from the stategy guide and the pictures are from the official artwork for the game.

Prier
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=prierfront.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=prierback.jpg

"At 16 years old (remember, it’s 5 years later, so in my comic she’s actually 21), Prier believes that she has everything needed to be an independent adult. Headstrong and confident, she’s not afraid to take a stand or follow what she believes is right. She is also not afraid to tell anyone what she thinks, and this sometimes leads her into trouble (as does her willingness to take on near-overwhelming odds).

Prier is not a very devout follower of the faith even though she was raised according to the teachings of the Church and is a Sister of the Church of the Holy Maiden. She is much more interested in the active vocation of demon hunting than praying and, as a member of La Pucelle, she is eager to take on challenging opponents. However, she also believes in caring for and helping people, and is dedicated to bringing happiness and hope to the world.

The one thing that Prier wants most is to become the Maiden of Light. It is a dream that she has had in her heart for a long time and she believes that she is someone who can offer peace and love to the world around her. It is this dream that leads her onward through her path of self-discovery."

Culotte

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=culottefront.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=culotteback.jpg

"Prier’s younger brother, Culotte, was raised with the faith of the Church of the Holy Maiden. Like Prier, he joined the Demon Hunting Squad of La Pucelle even though he is only 12 years old (17 in my story). The teachings of the church have helped to strengthen Culotte’s character and give him an opportunity to spread peace and happiness.

Culotte studies very hard and is a better student than his sister. He is happy to learn and genuinely cares for others. He has a bit of a crush on his teacher Alouette, so he especially wants to please her.

Culotte is very supportive and hopeful. He looks for the best in people and is always willing to help others. He is much more calm than Prier, and does not feel the need to push for independence. His kind heart and gentle disposition lead Culotte to try and do what he can to make the world a better place.

Alouette

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=alouettefront.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=alouetteback.jpg

"Alouette was found by Father Salade while wandering in the wilderness, clutching the Holy Book. She had no memory of who she was or what happened to her in the past. Father Salade took her in and educated her about the world. This has given Alouette her sense of duty and purpose.

Alouette is a very devoted follower to the teachings of her faith, mostly because of everything that the church has done for her. She is dedicated to the Holy Book’s words and seeks to spread its knowledge. As a member of La Pucelle, Alouette does her best to heal and purify the land from evil.

Alouette tries to maintain her sense of calm and dignity even when under pressure. Prier, who has her own sense of what is proper, sometimes challenges this. Having to teach both Prier and Culotte the tactics of demon hunting (as well as etiquette and manners) doesn’t help her stress level. Still, as a strong individual, Alouette hopes that she can help others realize their own potential through faith and education."

Father Salade

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=fathersalade.jpg

"The founder of the Church of the Holy Maiden, Father Salade also oversees the workings of La Pucelle. He keeps a careful eye on the current events of the Kingdom of Paprica, noting where and when he should send the demon hunting squad to accomplish the greatest good. This attention to detail has been rewarded by a good relationship with the royal family of Paprica. This necessitates a great deal of travel, and he doesn’t get to spend as much time with his wife (who is the director of the orphanage) or at the cathedral as he would like.

Father Salade takes a very paternal approach to many members of La Pucelle. When the need arises, he can be firm, but he prefers the role of a teacher, good-naturedly guiding is students onto the path of knowledge. He also tends to give special treatment to Alouette, whom he has taken into the church and allowed to become a member of La Pucelle without ever having passed the Demon Destruction Exam.

In his younger days, Father Salade was a demon hunter himself, and it is rumored that he destroyed demons using nothing but his bare hands. Even though he is now 50 years old (55 in my story), Father Salade is still in his prime, and has no desire to stop his martial training any time soon. Should the need arise, Father Salade will once again directly enter the fray on the side of faith and justice!"

 

[The_Otaku]

(continued from previous post)

Q: The outfit on Alouette is racy and Prier’s is immodest. Are you going to do anything about this?
A: Yes. I’m in the process of drawing rough sketches of different outfits which will be more modest and still retain the uniqueness each outfit gives the character. They will not be wearing habits though (like the minor sister characters) as this would detract from their positions as main characters.

Q: Is there a God/god, diety, or higher power in this game? Is there an evil equilvent?
A: Yes and yes. Goddess Poitreene and Fallen Angel Calamity, respectively. There are pictures of them, but they are both nude and/or their nudeness is covered but alot of flesh is still exposed, so I’ll refrain form posting them for the sake of the younger members here. To give you an idea, Poitreene looks like Alouette (long blonde hair, blue eyes), nude, and with angelic wings. Calamity is similar to Poitreene, but is darker skinned.

Q: Can you explain the nature of Poitreene?
A: To quote her on her own existence:

“You don’t understand. People call me a Goddess, but I am merely a personification of the power of light. People have come to worship this power as the Goddess Poitreene.”

From this we can conclude that in rendering a god-like figure, this character is not an affront to Alimighty God as she is a manifestation of Light only, not a god in and of herself. The same holds true for Calamity, a personification of evil, but not an anti-christ or Satan in her own right.

Q: Can you describe the Maiden of Light and what role she plays?
A: The Maiden of Light is a young woman whom Poitreene chooses at different points in history, to be her champion. This is to counter the threats posed by Calamity and her Dark Prince (the evil equivilent of the Maiden) and to spread hope, love and peace. Whom the Maiden of Light is changes from person to person once previous Maidens have fulfilled their duty. Maidens of Light are always pure of heart and their faith is strong. They possess great knowledge and healing powers and are able to perform great miracles. You could liken them to living saints.

There are statues of the Maiden of Light in the Maiden of Light Church and in the stained glass windows, but here is an actual painting of her:

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=maidenoflight.jpg

Q: Can you explain the nature of demons in this game?
A: There are two types of demons in this game. Those that enter the physical world and those that live in the Dark World (a sort of netherworld but not a hell). Their natures are the same and they are physical beings, and not entirely spiritual. This, in turn, makes them merely more powerful monsters which are alligned with evil rather than being neutral. In all cases, none of them engage in satanic activity, they merely seek to consume or kill their enemies. It some text, such as those I’ve provided you, it implies that demons can be healed and possibly repent, and in one instance in the game, there is a human who becomes a demon (due to evil deeds, emotions, etc.) but is then purified by La Pucelle, transforms back into a human, dies, and goes to serve his penance (as a soul). This would imply that some demons are not those created by Calamity, but that human beings can become demons and stay demons if not purified and converted back to the Light.

I think a huge moral lesson can be learned and taught in utilizing this, as I can teach of the dangers of doing evil but that penance and reconcilation are still possible for these people.

The official artwork for the demons is lacking, so here are the in-game sprites for the demons instead:

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=sucubus.gif
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=gargoyle.gif
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=demon1.gif
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=demon2.gif
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=demon3.gif

Q: Your information says Father Salade is married. Are you going to do anything about this?
A: Yes. Because the relationship between Father Salade and his wife is not stressed, only mentioned in passing, and the two are never even shown together, I have decided to make Father Salade celibate. His wife, the Director of the orphanage (and a sister herself) will simply be a veteran sister (possibly a sort of mother superior) that works closely with Father Salade in running the church, in addition to her duties as the Director. Them both being older characters will allow me to make them compatible in their experiences and devotion, long time friends, but not married. It works perfectly, and the controversy of clergy to clergy marriages/unions can be avoided.

Q: The characters wear crosses on their person or have cross designs on their clothing or weopons. Are you going to remove the crosses?
A: No. I deliberated the most with this question and went back and forth several times, but then I realized something: the crosses in this game are not so much religious articles or relics as they are badges or status of office when worn or forms of art or architecture in the buildings and churches. Like police officers have badges to represent their organination, the Church of the Holy Maiden uses crosses as a badge so that others know they serve the Church. The crosses themselves hold no mystical power, they are not meant to be viewed as Crucifixes, represent Christ or anybody else, nor and they are used in religious ways or to fight the enemy. When I looked at the definition of cross, it had over 60 different entries, but these two stuck out and were more in line with what I thought the japanese had intended when they made the crosses in this game:

“any of various conventional representations or modifications of the Christian emblem used symbolically or for ornament, as in heraldry or art: a Latin cross; a Maltese cross.”
“A medal, emblem, or insignia in the form of a cross.”

The moral question is whether or not Jesus is blasphemed by this, but considering that crosses are both religious icons and works of art void of the implications of Christ’s sacrifice, suffering, and death, a clear difference can be established. If it was the intention of the creators to imply a Christ-like power or presence to the crosses or they placed a figure on the crosses who was not Christ, then my answer would definitely be yes, and I’d remove them completely. As it stands, they are only insignias for the characters and used to beautify the churches. The crosses are never in-your-face anyways, so it if becomes an issue, I’ll simply limit their appearances.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Hmm… actually I think the outfits are ok. Though I haven’t played the game and I don’t know the story, you can always tell an anime character’s personality from his/her clothes.

With that said, I think Prier’s outfit suits her for she fits nicely into the Rebellious Hotheaded Pinkette stereotype. The kind of girl who always speaks her mind no matter what and easily loses it. I think the reason why girls of that stereotype can be shown in such outfits is probably to represents their rebellious and hardheaded nature. XD

As to Aluoutte, I don’t think it’s racy at all. I mean it hardly even shows any skin. Trust me, I’ve seen outfits that could be hundred times racier than that (I’m half-fanboy after all ).

 

[The_Otaku]

Hmm… actually I think the outfits are ok. Though I haven’t played the game and I don’t know the story, you can always tell an anime character’s personality from his/her clothes.

With that said, I think Prier’s outfit suits her for she fits nicely into the Rebellious Hotheaded Pinkette stereotype. The kind of girl who always speaks her mind no matter what and easily loses it. I think the reason why girls of that stereotype can be shown in such outfits is probably to represents their rebellious and hardheaded nature. XD

As to Aluoutte, I don’t think it’s racy at all. I mean it hardly even shows any skin. Trust me, I’ve seen outfits that could be hundred times racier than that (I’m half-fanboy after all ).

I don’t mind their oufits either, but due to my catholic leanings and the fact these are religious characters, I feel there is a responsibility on my part to at least make the outfits a bit more modest. I’m not talking prude modest, just more modest.

Funny thing, actually. In the game, in one of the episodes, Alouette says to Prier “I’ve been meaning to tell you about your clothing. Shouldn’t you be more modest? A Sister in the service of the church shouldn’t wear clothes which are too tight or too revealing”.

And then Prier says “Father Salade picked this out for me! And besides, you’re wearing a micro-mini under that robe!”

Then Alouette says “Father Salade said it would be easier to move around in, so…”

And then they both look at Father Salade and get angry at him and scream and he says “what are you two looking at me like that for ?!”

So it turns out that Father Salade is the reason they’re wearing those outfits in the first place. While thats funny on all sorts of levels, and it was cute to see them make each other blush, it implies Father Salade is a perv, and we can’t have that, now can we?

 

[vee8]

.

Q: Can you give an introduction to this game, and the theme of your fan comic (doujinshi)?

After reading the intro and your theme I dont see any moral problems in this area.

Q: Can you describe the church in this game?
A: Taken from the strategy guide:

From the description it doesnt sound like the church is portrayed in a bad light. Id be more concerned if they were the bad guys and portrayed along those lines. I also dont find the church building that bad and think they wouldnt need to be adjusted for your comic.

%between%

Q: Can you describe the main characters and provide images of them?
A: The following bios are from the stategy guide and the pictures are from the official artwork for the game.

Prier
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=prierfront.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=prierback.jpg

"At 16 years old (remember, it’s 5 years later, so in my comic she’s actually 21)

Wow she has big legs and work boots! I actually laughed out loud when I saw the pic. At least she is 21 in your story and that gets rid of any questions over her age. Her clothes arent that bad actually but maybe could be a tiny bit more modest around the waist.

Alouette

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=alouettefront.jpg
s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=alouetteback.jpg

I have no objections to her clothes at all. For an anime character she is practically wearing a burka!

 

[The_Otaku]

.

After reading the intro and your theme I dont see any moral problems in this area.

From the description it doesnt sound like the church is portrayed in a bad light. Id be more concerned if they were the bad guys and portrayed along those lines. I also dont find the church building that bad and think they wouldnt need to be adjusted for your comic.

%between%

Wow she has big legs and work boots! I actually laughed out loud when I saw the pic. At least she is 21 in your story and that gets rid of any questions over her age. Her clothes arent that bad actually but maybe could be a tiny bit more modest around the waist.

I have no objections to her clothes at all. For an anime character she is practically wearing a burka!

Wow, I’m surprised. I didn’t think either of their outfits would seem appropriate to any of you. Maybe I was being way too scrupulous and hard on myself?

Here’s an even more modest looking sister from the game (she’s a minor character so I didn’t share her picture before):

Sister Angelique is her name.

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=angelique.jpg

You don’t think I’d have to tone done Prier or Alouette’s outfit this much, do you? I don’t want to overdo it with the modesty and I wouldn’t enjoy drawing them if they all had to look like this.

With Alouette, the only thing that really needs changing is to make her skirt a bit longer. With Prier, her legs need to be more covered up around the waist area.

I’ll still create the new outfits anyways. At the very least, they can trade off between these ones and the ones I designed so that things don’t get boring.

Also, last minute question, what is your opinion on me drawing these characters in casual clothing sometimes? I like the idea of being able to have a chapter or two where they’re not on duty and get to relax and do their hobbies. Like, for example, lets say Alouette is planting flowers in the church garden and it’s a hot day. She obviously wouldn’t be wearing this outfit, as it would get messy. So if she’s in shorts and an a-shirt and sandals or flip flops, do you think that would be acceptable?

Or what about Prier wearing form-fitting training clothes or body suits when she’s practicing her martial arts? It’s practical for cutting down wind resistance, etc., but artistically it would mean drawing the outline of her body as if she were nude, which adds a sensual element. If it makes any difference, she trains alone or with Father Salade who taught her martial arts, so it’s legitimate.

Although, I’ve toyed with the idea that some of the local town boys like to sneak peaks into the church property when they got wind that Prier would train there in this outfit, and when she caught them in the act, she’d beat them up and make them run laps around town or something. I think it’s funny and I’d only do this once or twice, but it might be inappropriate given she’s a sister.

 

[vee8]

Q: The outfit on Alouette is racy and Prier’s is immodest. Are you going to do anything about this?
A: Yes. I’m in the process of drawing rough sketches of different outfits which will be more modest and still retain the uniqueness each outfit gives the character. They will not be wearing habits though (like the minor sister characters) as this would detract from their positions as main characters.

One additional comment is that since you are already working on possible new clothes it would make sense that their clothes have changed in five years and that could justify any changes you make.

Q: Is there a God/god, diety, or higher power in this game? Is there an evil equilvent?
A: Yes and yes. Goddess Poitreene and Fallen Angel Calamity, respectively. There are pictures of them, but they are both nude and/or their nudeness is covered but alot of flesh is still exposed,

As long as their nudity is not used to inspire lust in your comic then I cant object to their nudity per se.

Q: Can you explain the nature of demons in this game?
This would imply that some demons are not those created by Calamity, but that human beings can become demons and stay demons if not purified and converted back to the Light.

I think a huge moral lesson can be learned and taught in utilizing this, as I can teach of the dangers of doing evil but that penance and reconcilation are still possible for these people.

Q: Your information says Father Salade is married. Are you going to do anything about this?
A: Yes. Because the relationship between Father Salade and his wife is not stressed, only mentioned in passing, and the two are never even shown together, I have decided to make Father Salade celibate… and the controversy of clergy to clergy marriages/unions can be avoided.

Q: The characters wear crosses on their person or have cross designs on their clothing or weopons. Are you going to remove the crosses?
A: No. I deliberated the most with this question and went back and forth several times,

Yeah that is tough because you have a cross, symbol of Christianity yet a mythical religion with a goddess so the combo looks very odd :ehh: kind of like tuna mayo pizza. If I was a game creator Id personally avoid the mixture but for your comic you know what you believe etc so I dont think its necessary to remove them.

As it stands, they are only insignias for the characters and used to beautify the churches. The crosses are never in-your-face anyways, so it if becomes an issue, I’ll simply limit their appearances.

The game itself I still have objections with but the changes you are making to your version of it sound fine. The characters you have described arent as badly dressed as I had first suspected either. Knowing what I know now about the game and in particular your version of it Id say go ahead.

 

[The_Otaku]

One additional comment is that since you are already working on possible new clothes it would make sense that their clothes have changed in five years and that could justify any changes you make.

As long as their nudity is not used to inspire lust in your comic then I cant object to their nudity per se.





Yeah that is tough because you have a cross, symbol of Christianity yet a mythical religion with a goddess so the combo looks very odd :ehh: kind of like tuna mayo pizza. If I was a game creator Id personally avoid the mixture but for your comic you know what you believe etc so I dont think its necessary to remove them.



The game itself I still have objections with but the changes you are making to your version of it sound fine. The characters you have described arent as badly dressed as I had first suspected either. Knowing what I know now about the game and in particular your version of it Id say go ahead.

Thank you for your help! I really, REALLY appreciate it. You don’t know how much this has been stressing me out, this whole thing about this comic. I don’t have anyone else I can share this with and get good feedback from (at least from a moral, spiritual perspective), so I feel like I’ve gotten alot off my chest.

I just hope that I’m not annoying anyone. To everyone else this may seem trivial, but to me it’s a big deal, as it deals with my art. I’m not saying artists are special, but being an artist means being emotional and understanding the nuances in every little thing…

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t mind their oufits either, but due to my catholic leanings and the fact these are religious characters, I feel there is a responsibility on my part to at least make the outfits a bit more modest. I’m not talking prude modest, just more modest.

Funny thing, actually. In the game, in one of the episodes, Alouette says to Prier “I’ve been meaning to tell you about your clothing. Shouldn’t you be more modest? A Sister in the service of the church shouldn’t wear clothes which are too tight or too revealing”.

And then Prier says “Father Salade picked this out for me! And besides, you’re wearing a micro-mini under that robe!”

Then Alouette says “Father Salade said it would be easier to move around in, so…”

And then they both look at Father Salade and get angry at him and scream and he says “what are you two looking at me like that for ?!”

So it turns out that Father Salade is the reason they’re wearing those outfits in the first place. While thats funny on all sorts of levels, and it was cute to see them make each other blush, it implies Father Salade is a perv, and we can’t have that, now can we?

LOL! Ok, now I’m definitely adding that game to my PS2 wishlist. XD

Setting that aside, yeah, it would be better if we left that little detail at end out. Though maybe you should have someone else play the perv (who’s not a religious). Characters like that have always made good comic relief. >XD

Also, last minute question, what is your opinion on me drawing these characters in casual clothing sometimes? I like the idea of being able to have a chapter or two where they’re not on duty and get to relax and do their hobbies. Like, for example, lets say Alouette is planting flowers in the church garden and it’s a hot day. She obviously wouldn’t be wearing this outfit, as it would get messy. So if she’s in shorts and an a-shirt and sandals or flip flops, do you think that would be acceptable?

Personally I think it would be acceptable as long as its not overdone. It’s not really about the outfits but more of the angle of perspective as well as the positions of the characters that amplify the level of sensuality. I mean you can draw a girl only in a towel but if you position her to be standing upright, arms crossed, and looking mighty… displeased gulp. I’ll be more likely to be frightened than aroused.

Or what about Prier wearing form-fitting training clothes or body suits when she’s practicing her martial arts? It’s practical for cutting down wind resistance, etc., but artistically it would mean drawing the outline of her body as if she were nude, which adds a sensual element. If it makes any difference, she trains alone or with Father Salade who taught her martial arts, so it’s legitimate.

Although, I’ve toyed with the idea that some of the local town boys like to sneak peaks into the church property when they got wind that Prier would train there in this outfit, and when she caught them in the act, she’d beat them up and make them run laps around town or something. I think it’s funny and I’d only do this once or twice, but it might be inappropriate given she’s a sister.

You know, these are the very situations where I find it easy to get away with somewhat ecchi situations and outfits. Sure that girl’s clothes don’t exactly make her look… pure. Try to take advantage of her however and WHAM!! You’re sent off flying so high, you become a twinkling star! XD

I think you can even do the same with girls who are not so hotheaded. Instead of beating the unfortunate perv herself however, she has an overprotective guardian that hears her call and deals all manner of painful punishments. XD

 

[The_Otaku]

LOL! Ok, now I’m definitely adding that game to my PS2 wishlist. XD

Setting that aside, yeah, it would be better if we left that little detail at end out. Though maybe you should have someone else play the perv (who’s not a religious). Characters like that have always made good comic relief. >XD

Personally I think it would be acceptable as long as its not overdone. It’s not really about the outfits but more of the angle of perspective as well as the positions of the characters that amplify the level of sensuality. I mean you can draw a girl only in a towel but if you position her to be standing upright, arms crossed, and looking mighty… displeased gulp. I’ll be more likely to be frightened than aroused.

You know, these are the very situations where I find it easy to get away with somewhat ecchi situations and outfits. Sure that girl’s clothes don’t exactly make her look… pure. Try to take advantage of her however and WHAM!! You’re sent off flying so high, you become a twinkling star! XD

I think you can even do the same with girls who are not so hotheaded. Instead of beating the unfortunate perv herself however, she has an overprotective guardian that hears her call and deals all manner of painful punishments. XD

I can’t help but notice you’re pretty bias about this, in my favor. I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing since I feel like I’m getting mixed messages from some of you guys here (the anime people) and that this situation is going over too smoothly.

Was I wrong to hope or ask for a definitive answer one way or the other?

I hope the favorable responses so far are not clouding my judgement. It’s awfully convenient and one-sided so far. How is this issue really being tested if everyone agrees and is telling me basically the same thing (or is that the sign I was looking for all along)? I’m the one who would be in moral jeopardy, not any of you, if any of these things turn out to be wrong and sinful.

I’m smart enough to know right from wrong, and I obviously have a sensitive conscience so much that I keep going back and forth on this issue, so then what is this issue about, then? Insecurity? Not trusting myself or my ideas? Looking for the sin in everything even if it’s not there? Holding myself too accountable or not accountable enough?

You’d like to think deliberation and discernment like this is a gift from God, but it just as easily can be the devil screwing around with you to make you miserable and a wretch.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I can’t help but notice you’re pretty bias about this, in my favor. I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing since I feel like I’m getting mixed messages from some of you guys here (the anime people) and that this situation is going over too smoothly.

To be honest, I’m just looking at things more realistically. I mean I’ve been an anime fan for over nine years now and I know pretty much all of its ins and outs. I know a few manga where the ecchiness can get a little out of hand sometimes but it’s tough to say that it should be completely removed when it is a part of what anime is. Correct me if I’m wrong but I can’t help but assume that you wanna be a manga author because you’re making a doujinshi. I’m just telling you what people would expect if you wanna make a hit manga.

Was I wrong to hope or ask for a definitive answer one way or the other?

I hope the favorable responses so far are not clouding my judgement. It’s awfully convenient and one-sided so far. How is this issue really being tested if everyone agrees and is telling me basically the same thing (or is that the sign I was looking for all along)? I’m the one who would be in moral jeopardy, not any of you, if any of these things turn out to be wrong and sinful.

Perhaps it’s because before you came here, you may have had a different impression of the people here. You said so yourself you were surprised to find some anime fans here. I think if you’re not really planning on making something with a message and just wanna make doujinshi for the fun of it then I guess it’s pretty much okay if you alter the outfits to be a bit more modest.

However, like I said before, if you’re ever gonna make a manga, know that your audience isn’t of the religious variety like the people here. You gotta find a way to balance the elements they find attractive without compromising the message you wanna portray.

 

[The_Otaku]

To be honest, I’m just looking at things more realistically. I mean I’ve been an anime fan for over nine years now and I know pretty much all of its ins and outs. I know a few manga where the ecchiness can get a little out of hand sometimes but it’s tough to say that it should be completely removed when it is a part of what anime is. Correct me if I’m wrong but I can’t help but assume that you wanna be a manga author because you’re making a doujinshi. I’m just telling you what people would expect if you wanna make a hit manga.

Perhaps it’s because before you came here, you may have had a different impression of the people here. You said so yourself you were surprised to find some anime fans here. I think if you’re not really planning on making something with a message and just wanna make doujinshi for the fun of it then I guess it’s pretty much okay if you alter the outfits to be a bit more modest.

However, like I said before, if you’re ever gonna make a manga, know that your audience isn’t of the religious variety like the people here. You gotta find a way to balance the elements they find attractive without compromising the message you wanna portray.

Actually, this is just a hobby for me (I can send you the first three pages if you’d like). I don’t plan on being a professional, though I have had people tell me I should consider it, given my skill, which they think is good enough. I’ve been into anime for about as long as you have been, so I’m well aware of what you’re saying in regards to what people want and well aware of the themes that are commonplace in anime. However, this doesn’t change my morals and if it came down to having to sell out just to get my website some more hits or whatever it is I’m seeking, then I know I will have crossed the line.

Sometimes I think I might have an obsessive compulsive disorder. Sometimes I go through mood swings too. Today, for example, I woke up happy at the thought that later today I could pull out an art board, rule it off, and start drawing panels. But by the time I had lunch my enthusiasm was gone and I have almost no desire to do anything now and it’s only 5pm as I type this. I still have the rest of the day free. If I felt like it, I could rule a page and draw panels by 7, start sketching by 8, eat dinner, and possibly have solid line art by 10 and tomorrow I could get all the inking done, scan it, and then add the screentones on my computer and have a finished page by friday.

But this whole issue of whether it is moral or not is sidetracking me. I haven’t been able to draw anything else either. If this continues much longer it will become unhealthy if it isn’t already.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

However, this doesn’t change my morals and if it came down to having to sell out just to get my website some more hits or whatever it is I’m seeking, then I know I will have crossed the line.

Actually this is a trial that is inevitable for all those who want to portray religious messages through secular media and literature. The goal is to find the perfect balance between keeping a hold on your audience all the while keeping the moral message intact. For me, accomplishing a task like that is a mark of those who possess both great skill and great character. Personally that has been one of my life goals as an anime writer.

But this whole issue of whether it is moral or not is sidetracking me. I haven’t been able to draw anything else either. If this continues much longer it will become unhealthy if it isn’t already.

Well if you’re not gonna make anything serious then I think it’s pretty clear that dressing the characters in a more modest way as you see fit is perfectly fine. You don’t need to worry about having to sell out and compromise your morals.

 

[The_Otaku]

Actually this is a trial that is inevitable for all those who want to portray religious messages through secular media and literature. The goal is to find the perfect balance between keeping a hold on your audience all the while keeping the moral message intact. For me, accomplishing a task like that is a mark of those who possess both great skill and great character. Personally that has been one of my life goals as an anime writer.

Well if you’re not gonna make anything serious then I think it’s pretty clear that dressing the characters in a more modest way as you see fit is perfectly fine. You don’t need to worry about having to sell out and compromise your morals.

It’s not so much me wanting to portray religious messages as it was those were just the themes the game had already and it was a matter of me reconciling that to what I believe so I can feel comfortable drawing it. What MAKES it difficult is MY belief system not that the themes or issue are foreign to me.

To be fair to Nippon Ichi (the game company that made La Pucelle), their game didn’t need much editing on my part. Just make the priest celibate and the sister outfits a little more modest and that’s pretty much it. So coming to the conclusion that this is acceptable is something I can accept now. However, there will always be that part of me that will look back on this project, whether it’s successful or not, and wonder what God thought about it, and if I did Him a huge disservice, and that, during the whole production of it, I was sinning and not realizing it and in not realizing it didn’t confess it, and in not confessing it, carrying the weight of that sin through my life. It all adds up, after all, and doesn’t make our Lord’s cross any lighter.

They say you’ll know you’re doing something wrong when you feel guilty or have remorse, and that this is God’s way of moving your heart to repentance or to abstain from something that is not good for your soul. I haven’t felt that quite yet, but as is my worry, I don’t want to assume I’m doing something good either, especially something He is pleased with. And when I say good, I don’t mean by human standards. I was really hoping that in posting this thread God would somehow work through you guys. Maybe He has and I haven’t realized it yet.

How awesome would it be to have God give me a thumbs up of approval? LOL!

 

[Pray4Life]

The best thing you can do if this is troubling you so much is to consult your priest, perhaps make an appointment just for that purpose and bring some samples of your work in case he is not familiar with your hobby. I am assured that one can always trust the advice of his confessor, Jesus speaks to you through him.

If you think you might be becoming obsessive or scrupulous, you should especially be careful about how much importance you give feelings alone, and trust in the guidance of your confessor.

 

[The_Otaku]

The best thing you can do if this is troubling you so much is to consult your priest, perhaps make an appointment just for that purpose and bring some samples of your work in case he is not familiar with your hobby. I am assured that one can always trust the advice of his confessor, Jesus speaks to you through him.

If you think you might be becoming obsessive or scrupulous, you should especially be careful about how much importance you give feelings alone, and trust in the guidance of your confessor.

That’s good advice. Thank you.

I don’t think I’m being scrupulous or obsessive, I KNOW I am, and I know that because I used to be like this in other areas of my life when I was younger. I remember when I was in high school, I had alot of stress and I had developed this OCD where I would turn the lights (in my bathroom for example) on and off 5 times to make sure it was off. I’d also lock the door 5 times to make sure it was locked. I’d close and open the frig 5 times to make sure it was properly shut and the cold air wasn’t leaving it. That was almost 10 years ago, and it was short lived. When I saw the movie As Good As It Gets, starring Jack Nicholson, I laughed out loud when I saw him flick his lights on 5 times and all that because it’s exactly what I was doing!

 

[vee8]

Wow, I’m surprised. I didn’t think either of their outfits would seem appropriate to any of you. Maybe I was being way too scrupulous and hard on myself?

I was worried they would look too lolicon or something like that but Alouette isnt even showing any skin and Prier is a bit but its pretty tame.

Here’s an even more modest looking sister from the game (she’s a minor character so I didn’t share her picture before):

Sister Angelique is her name.

s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/Dark_Adonis/?action=view&current=angelique.jpg

You don’t think I’d have to tone done Prier or Alouette’s outfit this much, do you? I don’t want to overdo it with the modesty and I wouldn’t enjoy drawing them if they all had to look like this.

Thats really tame I dont think you have to go that far.

I’ll still create the new outfits anyways. At the very least, they can trade off between these ones and the ones I designed so that things don’t get boring.

Sounds good.

Also, last minute question, what is your opinion on me drawing these characters in casual clothing sometimes? I like the idea of being able to have a chapter or two where they’re not on duty and get to relax and do their hobbies. Like, for example, lets say Alouette is planting flowers in the church garden and it’s a hot day. She obviously wouldn’t be wearing this outfit, as it would get messy. So if she’s in shorts and an a-shirt and sandals or flip flops, do you think that would be acceptable?

Oh no but she will get a tan! Lots of Japanese women carry parasols and/or wearing long sleeved gloves in this horrible heat of summer lest they turn brown and look like a rice farmer (no offense to rice farmers but having light skin is prized in Asia.) I think a scene where they are doing their hobbies is good but maybe if she is wearing a sun visor it looks more Japanese.

Or what about Prier wearing form-fitting training clothes or body suits when she’s practicing her martial arts? It’s practical for cutting down wind resistance, etc., but artistically it would mean drawing the outline of her body as if she were nude, which adds a sensual element. If it makes any difference, she trains alone or with Father Salade who taught her martial arts, so it’s legitimate.

I dont see a problem with form fitting clothes for sports but it starts to get questionable if it starts to show more than is necessary like her bottom.

Although, I’ve toyed with the idea that some of the local town boys like to sneak peaks into the church property when they got wind that Prier would train there in this outfit, and when she caught them in the act, she’d beat them up and make them run laps around town or something. I think it’s funny and I’d only do this once or twice, but it might be inappropriate given she’s a sister.

I think its funny too besides the boys arent getting away with it. Ive seen that kind of scenario in Japanese comedies and its taken for granted the boys will get punished somehow so a slapstick style or overblown punishment is what the audience expects.

 

[The_Otaku]

I was worried they would look too lolicon or something like that but Alouette isnt even showing any skin and Prier is a bit but its pretty tame.

Thats really tame I dont think you have to go that far.

Sounds good.

Oh no but she will get a tan! Lots of Japanese women carry parasols and/or wearing long sleeved gloves in this horrible heat of summer lest they turn brown and look like a rice farmer (no offense to rice farmers but having light skin is prized in Asia.) I think a scene where they are doing their hobbies is good but maybe if she is wearing a sun visor it looks more Japanese.

I dont see a problem with form fitting clothes for sports but it starts to get questionable if it starts to show more than is necessary like her bottom.

I think its funny too besides the boys arent getting away with it. Ive seen that kind of scenario in Japanese comedies and its taken for granted the boys will get punished somehow so a slapstick style or overblown punishment is what the audience expects.

Thanks for your additional (name removed by moderator)ut. It is helpful and reassuring. I’ve been able to move forward lately and I’m already drawing another page. All these characters are french, actually and the game takes place in a fantasy France. At least, it’s heavily implied. All of the characters have names that are french words (Prier is the verb “prayer” or “to pray”, for example), many of the locations have french names, the game’s title is french, and so on. Coincidentally enough, the french used parasols as well, and the women were up on having white, milky, fair skin as well. I think it’s more practical to have Alouette wearing one of those big straw hats. You mention farmers, but I think it would make her look cute.

As for Prier, I considered having her and Father Salade wear dojo/karate style uniforms when they train, and while that would give the feeling I want (and would be modest at the same time), I feel it would be too patronizing to the japanese and wouldn’t fit with the french tones. I’m sure I’ll figure something out.

One of the things that attracted me to this game, other than the themes, art style and so on, was that these were not asian characters. There’s sometimes this assumption that because a character is drawn in the anime style that they’re of asian ethnicity or background. And while that is usually the case, it’s a breath of fresh air to see the japanese trying to integrate other cultures into their work to add more variety. It gives artists like me more to work with.

Anyways, thank you again for your help. God bless.

P.S:

I tried sending you a PM, but it says you’ve disabled them. I wanted to ask you your name so I could include you in my prayers the next time I pray a rosary or divine mercy chaplet. If you prefer me using your username, that’s fine, since God will know who you are.

 

[vee8]

Thanks for your additional (name removed by moderator)ut. It is helpful and reassuring. I’ve been able to move forward lately and I’m already drawing another page. All these characters are french, actually and the game takes place in a fantasy France. At least, it’s heavily implied.

Oh good youve gotten over your recent case of writers block .
Its kind of strange because I read their names and looked at the pictures and so on and yes it all looks very French but for some reason I always still think of characters like that as Japanese. It is not just these characters but almost all anime characters, even the anime Alps no Shojo Heidi which is supposed to be Switzerland?? Im still not fully convinced she is Swiss I think it is because of the style of drawing I can never get entirely past that and the characters always end up being part Japanese in my mind. Language probably plays a part too since if I actually saw or heard them speak English or anything but Japanese I might be more convinced of their intended nationality.

As for Prier, I considered having her and Father Salade wear dojo/karate style uniforms when they train, and while that would give the feeling I want (and would be modest at the same time), I feel it would be too patronizing to the japanese and wouldn’t fit with the french tones. I’m sure I’ll figure something out.

I think Prier having her own unique uniform would be better than wearing a gi or hakama or something really Japanese too.

One of the things that attracted me to this game, other than the themes, art style and so on, was that these were not asian characters. There’s sometimes this assumption that because a character is drawn in the anime style that they’re of asian ethnicity or background. And while that is usually the case, it’s a breath of fresh air to see the japanese trying to integrate other cultures into their work to add more variety. It gives artists like me more to work with.

If it helps you be a better artist thats good. My skewed perception is the result of possible heat stroke and/or brain melt because this summer has been so hot and humid.

P.S:

I tried sending you a PM, but it says you’ve disabled them. I wanted to ask you your name so I could include you in my prayers the next time I pray a rosary or divine mercy chaplet. If you prefer me using your username, that’s fine, since God will know who you are.

Oh wow thank you for including me in your prayers. Yes please just use my username.