is my dad in hell?

[nicolep]

This is obviously a troll. The whole thread seems rather far-fetched, but especially this “new” member’s response.

I agree to an extent. I would rather assume the OP is being truthful though because it doesn’t seem to be out of proportion with the way some would feel in this situation.

I would hope by having compassionate responses, others who read this and are going through similar ordeals are comforted.

 

[Yours_Truly]

my dad died in the 9/11 terrorist attacks he was working in the north tower when it was struck by the plane… he was one of the people who jumped from the upper floors. my mum wont let me talk about him anymore because she says he is in hell because he took his own life…

i dont want to go to heaven if my dad isnt there. please help.

This is a different situation than normal suicide. Your dad did not jump because of despair, etc. He probably jumped because his choice was to die by fire or by jumping. He chose the latter. This is totally different than suicide.

I’m sure DevoutMatt meant well, but he does not know what he is talking about. He is an amature theologian who knows just enough to be dangerous.

 

[Silvereel]

As the others have said, it was not premeditated. He didn’t go up there planning to jump. Secondly, maybe this is the same thing, but he did not want to die, hence it was against his will. A sin has to be within one’s will, hence a person who is violated is still a virgin (only using this as an example). If your father had the choice to escape, he would have. He jumped because he was irrational, being in fear of the fire.
And, it is not our place to judge others.
Don’t listen to us because our words are kinder than Matthew’s. Sometimes the truth is not good. But in this situation, I believe we are the ones telling the truth, as far as we can tell. Have faith!

 

[NTOT]

Matthew is mistaken. First, we don’t even know that your father actually chose to jump (as opposed to fleeing the fire until he accidentally fell; this is what 1ke and I are talking about: your mind gets filled with “flee the fire flee the fire flee the fire” and pays no attention to little things like being a thousand feet up – this has been shown over and over again in other burning-building contexts). Second, even if he did choose to jump, it wasn’t premeditated. He was the victim of a building on fire; he didn’t go up there planning to jump.

The Catholic Church teaches as dogma that we have no way to determine whether any particular person is in Hell. This includes your father. No one on this planet can say that he is in Hell; we can, however, say with confidence that a merciful God does take into account things like the fact he was fleeing the fire.

It may not have even been wrong to jump in an attempt to escape the immediate danger of death from fire with the chance (although remote) of survining the fall. It is akin to someone ready to shoot you and your only path of escape is to jump in front of a moving car. The intent is not to kill oneself, but to attempt to escape.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

my dad died in the 9/11 terrorist attacks he was working in the north tower when it was struck by the plane… he was one of the people who jumped from the upper floors. my mum wont let me talk about him anymore because she says he is in hell because he took his own life…

i dont want to go to heaven if my dad isnt there. please help.

Hi Amielia,
This isn’t even suicide. Your father was trying to save his life by getting away from the flames that were going to kill him. He chose to jump with a chance of being caught by firemen or surviving somehow, vs. certain death in the flames. To be guilty of suicide you have to want to die. Anyone who tells you his soul is in danger for that is completely wrong.
Neil

 

[Amielia]

i think that matthew is just an extremist because you guys have way more posts and you all disagree. i’m leaving now because i dont want to cause trouble, but if anyone has more advice for me then please send it to me in a message. thank you for your prayers, im glad that there are so many good people in the world.

god bless.

 

[Catholic_Martyr]

First, suicide is not a guarantee of going to Hell.

Yes it is. It is a mortal sin against the fifth commandment and one you can never repent of. Once you leave this world your trial is over and you receive immediate particular judgment before Jesus Christ.

Proper Catholics use whatever suffering they are experiencing to worship God. They thank Him for the suffering and offer it to Him for sinners.

Based on the Church’s teachings on mortal sin and the necessity of confession, we should all believe that your dad is in hell and lost forever, suffering eternally. This is not something to hide from. If you convince yourself that he can have died in such a way and still made it to heaven, then you are endangering your own soul as well. You may not like it, or believe it, but I say this in charity.

That quote from the ‘new catechism’ is just as useless as the quote that says Muslims worship mankind’s judge on the last day. Actually that ‘catechism’ is a good way to get to hell too.

 

[anjoh66]

This whole tread smell.

Both the OP and matthew are new members registered today.

Why delay coming up with this question about the father, it already passed 8 years.

It should have been dealt with long ago.

Well if it is true it is awful, but i hesitate in the validity of this story.

It doesnt seems likely also the mother should react in that way, humans don´t do that with their dear ones.

 

[LilyM]

I really believe it is all you other posters who are being absurd! You are giving this child false hope! Instead of standing strong in his faith in God, this man decided to jump! Thousands of others willingly perished in that fire, but why didn’t he? He was a coward. His faith was tested, and it crumbled.

Child… Your mother is only trying to cover her grief, because she knows as I do, that your father is in hell. I’m sure she misses him as much as you, but she knows that she has eternal life in the Lord, whereas your father does not. She surely cannot bare the thought of heaven without him, so she chooses to scorn him, to make bearing the thought easier…

It will be better for you if you do as well.

So you would say that people are in fact responsible for ALL their actions even if they are actually mad when they commit them? Or otherwise do not understand what they are doing?

 

[Methodi]

my dad died in the 9/11 terrorist attacks he was working in the north tower when it was struck by the plane… he was one of the people who jumped from the upper floors. my mum wont let me talk about him anymore because she says he is in hell because he took his own life…

i dont want to go to heaven if my dad isnt there. please help.

I dont think your dad took his own life, I think he was trying to save himself by jumping, none of us would know how we would react till it hapens to us.I believe Your dad made his way to heaven or will make it. I am surprised your Mum talks that way about him, she should be praying that he is in Heaven

 

[DevoutMatthew]

Yes it is. It is a mortal sin against the fifth commandment and one you can never repent of. Once you leave this world your trial is over and you receive immediate particular judgment before Jesus Christ.

Proper Catholics use whatever suffering they are experiencing to worship God. They thank Him for the suffering and offer it to Him for sinners.

Based on the Church’s teachings on mortal sin and the necessity of confession, we should all believe that your dad is in hell and lost forever, suffering eternally. This is not something to hide from. If you convince yourself that he can have died in such a way and still made it to heaven, then you are endangering your own soul as well. You may not like it, or believe it, but I say this in charity.

That quote from the ‘new catechism’ is just as useless as the quote that says Muslims worship mankind’s judge on the last day. Actually that ‘catechism’ is a good way to get to hell too.

Amen!

 

[LilyM]

Yes it is. It is a mortal sin against the fifth commandment and one you can never repent of. Once you leave this world your trial is over and you receive immediate particular judgment before Jesus Christ.

Proper Catholics use whatever suffering they are experiencing to worship God. They thank Him for the suffering and offer it to Him for sinners.

Based on the Church’s teachings on mortal sin and the necessity of confession, we should all believe that your dad is in hell and lost forever, suffering eternally. This is not something to hide from. If you convince yourself that he can have died in such a way and still made it to heaven, then you are endangering your own soul as well. You may not like it, or believe it, but I say this in charity.

You clearly lack understanding of the Church’s constant (pre Vatican 2) teaching on mortal sin if you don’t understand the concept of full consent - and how circumstances such as being in a horrific fire with no chance of escape impact on a person’s ability to fully consent.

Nor, apparently, do you understand the Church’s constant (pre Vatican 2) teaching on ***Perfect Contrition ***if you don’t understand that forgiveness for even mortal sin CAN, where confession is unavailable as it was for 9/11, be obtained WITHOUT confession.

 

[anjoh66]

Yes it is. It is a mortal sin against the fifth commandment and one you can never repent of. Once you leave this world your trial is over and you receive immediate particular judgment before Jesus Christ.

Proper Catholics use whatever suffering they are experiencing to worship God. They thank Him for the suffering and offer it to Him for sinners.

Based on the Church’s teachings on mortal sin and the necessity of confession, we should all believe that your dad is in hell and lost forever, suffering eternally. This is not something to hide from. If you convince yourself that he can have died in such a way and still made it to heaven, then you are endangering your own soul as well. You may not like it, or believe it, but I say this in charity.

That quote from the ‘new catechism’ is just as useless as the quote that says Muslims worship mankind’s judge on the last day. Actually that ‘catechism’ is a good way to get to hell too.

Moahahaha

Here is our own sedevacantist, who judge others that they have no salvation, and keep himself outside the church.

Extra ecclesia nulla salus.

I hope nobody is taking anything you say for serious.

At least i am not.

But when i wanna have a good laughter i read your posts.
So some function you fill anyhow.

 

[Silvereel]

Shouldn’t we simply comend it to God’s hands and trust him? Pray for this man, and trust in God. It’s not for us to judge if he went to hell or heaven, is it? Just have faith.

 

[jmcrae]

Dear Amelia;

There is also a good chance that your father thought there was fire and rescue waiting down below with a bounce blanket, especially if he saw other people jumping out. He could have had other reasons, what he thought were very good reasons, for jumping out, without at all intending to kill himself.

He might also have been stampeded to the edge and pushed; after all, everyone in the building was panicking.

So there is no reason to be absolutely certain that he committed suicide, and even if he did commit suicide, we do not have to believe that he was in his right mind or that he intended anything other than to get away from the fear and pain.

So, while I don’t see a cause for canonization here, there is also no reason to despair. Offer Masses for your father whenever you can, especially on his birthday and on the anniversary of his baptism.

 

[stbruno]

The only person who knows if your dad repented is your dad. And with all things, God is merciful and loving and he has prepared a place for all of us…hopefully one day it will be heaven.

So think lovingly of your father, pray for his soul and like the previous posters, offer up masses for the intention of his soul. I am sure your mother is still grieving his loss in her own way, just as you…so pray for her as well and your whole family. This tragedy was something no one could ever perceive. But we always have God to help us. Nothing is impssible with God.

 

[Godfollower]

Dear Amiela,

I realize you’re new here, so it occurs to me that you may not know one of the weaknesses of CAF. The weakness is the fact that anyone can post here, whether or not what they say is accurate; and you, not knowing them, might be swayed to believe what they write.

There is a group of people on CAF who are very, shall we say, black and white about “the rules.” Some of them are quite willing to be cruel in support of whatever they happen to say; indeed, sometimes I get the feeling that certain CAF posters actually enjoy being mean (not to say that about anyone in particular; I am speaking in general).

If you are experiencing any doubt at all about what you have been told here, there are several things you can do to help. So I recommend the following:

• Analyze everything with a grain of salt.
• A poster’s postcount is not necessarily a reliable guide, but it can help; presumably someone who’s been posting for a while at least knows a little something.
• The reaction of the majority of posters can be helpful, if it appears that they know what they’re talking about.
• Evaluate posts according to the “Does this sound like the sort of thing Jesus would say?” rule.
• Check whether the post is supported by references to reliable authorities, as opposed to general polemics or derisiveness.

And, of course, the biggie:

• Talk to a priest you trust about what’s happening, and ask for guidance.

I hope this helps, and I repeat: we’re all praying for you.

 

[Lujack]

Yes it is. It is a mortal sin against the fifth commandment and one you can never repent of. Once you leave this world your trial is over and you receive immediate particular judgment before Jesus Christ.

First of all, this was not suicide, because it was not done with full intent and full knowledge. Secondly, even if it was, suicide does not lead to instant death. Who are you to say that in even in a case where a man with full intent and knowledge put a shotgun in his mouth, that split second between the trigger and death was not used to repent?

Proper Catholics use whatever suffering they are experiencing to worship God. They thank Him for the suffering and offer it to Him for sinners.

And you are the one who makes a distinction between which Catholics are proper and improper?

Based on the Church’s teachings on mortal sin and the necessity of confession, we should all believe that your dad is in hell and lost forever, suffering eternally. This is not something to hide from. If you convince yourself that he can have died in such a way and still made it to heaven, then you are endangering your own soul as well. You may not like it, or believe it, but I say this in charity.

Wrong. First of all, this isn’t even a true suicide. Second of all, even if it was, that doesn’t mean perfect contrition was not made on the way down.

That quote from the ‘new catechism’ is just as useless as the quote that says Muslims worship mankind’s judge on the last day. Actually that ‘catechism’ is a good way to get to hell too.

Ah. So you are a sedevanctist. If the ordinary magisterium of the Church is leading people into hell, doesn’t that indicate that the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church? As we know this cannot happen, it is clearly you who are in the wrong.

 

[Trishie]

**Dear Amielia,

Your Dad didn’t want to die. He jumped because he was trying to escape the fire. It’s his intention that matters. He wasn’t thinking properly, he was terrified and wanted to escape the terror and confusion all around him. He was trying not to die.

“Fight or flight” is the adrenalin response to a dangerous situation. Your poor Dad couldn’t fight the awful terrifying disaster and threatening death around him, so he panicked, he couldn’t fight it, so he tried flight…and the only way to flee was out the window. He wasn’t thinking straight. Who isn’t scared to death of fire all around you!**

 

[jmcrae]

PS: Amelia, tell your mother, a friend of mine who was in New York when it happened, when he saw them all jumping out, right away he prayed the Divine Mercy Chaplet for them, and he also e-mailed me and a whole bunch of other people, and we all prayed the Divine Mercy Chaplet for those poor people who were jumping out. It was a prayer chain that extended all the way around the world.

So, please do not despair, but trust in the mercy of God - even though I didn’t know your father, I was praying for him at the moment of his death, and so were lots of other people.