Is my daughter's baptism valid if Godfather is not even practicing his Catholicism?

[marlysmom]

Hi all, I’m hoping to get a few opinions on how I can approach a dilemma that’s been bothering me for months now. Please forgive the length.

My daughter, who will turn 3 in a couple of weeks, was born during the lenten season in 2005 and was baptized the first Baptismal Sunday after Easter. As a cradle Catholic, I was raised to believe that babies should be baptised ASAP and it was sgnificant for me as the date was May 8, the day I made my Holy Communion as well as my first Mother’s Day.

My husband and I both wanted to select our respective brothers as Godfathers, as we are both close to our only brothers, and my closest girlfriends and my husband’s sister were non-catholics, so we asked if we could have two sets of Godparents (so the men’s wives could be Godmothers). Our pastor told us we could only choose two Godparents but that he saw no reason why we couldn’t have both brothers, as there was nothing saying we needed a Godmother AND Godfather, simply two Godparents, so that’s what we did. (We figured we’d refer to the aunts as spiritual Godmothers.)

Since that day nearly three years ago, through the blessing of ETWN TV and radio, I’ve learned more about my faith than I ever did in my years of Catholic School and Catechism. I’m now very upset with our pastor because had he asked us a few simple questions about our selection of Godparents, I would not have selected my brother as Godfather as he is Catholic, but in name only. He initially fell away out of sheer laziness but later, when he and his wife failed to conceive and had a botched adoption experience, he blamed God.

He recently became a father, praise God, through adoption and I assumed he would baptize his son in our faith (All this time, I prayed he would come back to our church.) I was wrong.

He recently said he doesn’t believe, as I do, that our church is “the one true church.” He also sites "all those rules and obligations) and when I cited his disobedience, he was defensive. I reminded him it is far worse to be a Catholic and walk away than it is to have never been Catholic (as is the case with his wife.) As a last resort, I even pulled the guilt card, telling him our deceased mother would be so hurt to know he would not bring her grandson up in our faith as this was very important to her. It all fell on deaf (and annoyed) ears. Every attempt I’ve made to share my increased/renewed knowledge of our faith and all the materials available has been met with a lukewarm “thanks, if I have time I’ll take a look.”

His revelation about his belief about our church is influenced by his wife, who attends one of those large non-denominational churchs (I like to refer to them as McChurches because they’re huge “chain-like” atmospheres.) His wife was not raised with any specific religion.

I’ve urged both of them to attend mass with us but they always have an excuse; (usually wanting to sleep in.) The final straw came last weekend, when my brother permitted his wife’s sister to bring his new son (adopted from Guatemala, age 2) to the McChurch.

That being said, my husband and I are now sorry and wish we could renounce the Godfather title from my brother and name our sister-in-law on my brother’s side as Godmother, as she and her family attend mass every sunday, rain or shine, and our very devout.

Does this mean our daughter’s baptism is not valid if she doens’t have practicing Catholic as a Godparent? I mean, the mass and ritual appeared to have been valid, but I’m not sure about the importance of who we choose as Godparents with respect to this situation??

I know we should speak with our pastor and we will, but the main concern here is the sensitivity toward my brother, who adores my daughter and is so very good to her (as is his wife.)

So the questions are this: 1) Can a Godparent be "demoted and/or replaced and 2) would any of you do it if this were permitted??

Thanks and again, sorry for the lenght of this letter.

God bless!!

 

[Phemie]

No, your brother can’t be demoted. He was the one who gave answers at the baptism and, no matter what has happened since, you can’t change history.

Your child’s baptism is perfectly valid. It is not affected by the belief or non-belief of the godparents – or of the parents for that matter.

That said, your priest was in error when he said two godfathers were ok. The church says you only need one godparent and it doesn’t matter whether that godparent is a male or a female but that if you have 2 they need to be one male & one female.

Since you can’t change what is done, and your baby’s baptism IS valid, what you can do is ask a good Catholic friend to act as a godparent in your child’s life, explaining that your brother is not assuming the role you had hoped he would in your daughter’s spiritual life. You don’t need to tell your brother anything about it and risk damaging the relationship he does have with her.

Yes, if it could be done I’d replace 5 of my children’s 6 godparents.

 

[THurifer2]

Does this mean our daughter’s baptism is not valid if she doens’t have practicing Catholic as a Godparent?

When we recieve the sacraments the state of another persons soul has no bearing on the validity of the sacrament. Perhaps you could devote some lenten time to the study of baptism

So the questions are this: 1) Can a Godparent be "demoted and/or replaced

God parents aren’t even required for a valid baptism.

Furthermore suggesting “demotion” certainly would not improve the relationship with the Godparent.

 

[puzzleannie]

short answer, the validity of the sacrament of baptism lies in the matter and form, that is, the words and actions, of the minister, who can be anyone in an emergency, even a non-Catholic. Christ does the action, not the godparent. The godparent is a witness on behalf of the whole Christian community. Yes there are canon law requirements for who may be a godparent–and by the way, if there are two they must be one man and one woman, your priest erred or was not told the whole truth. But the presence, absence, or qualifications of the godparent do not contribute to or effect the validity of the sacramental action. The godparent should be chosen without regard of the need to placate or honor other family members–though it is an honor–but to provide a Catholic mentor and role model for the child who will assist in raising the child Catholic, esp. when he prepares for the other sacraments of initiation.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Does this mean our daughter’s baptism is not valid if she doens’t have practicing Catholic as a Godparent? I mean, the mass and ritual appeared to have been valid, but I’m not sure about the importance of who we choose as Godparents with respect to this situation??

I know we should speak with our pastor and we will, but the main concern here is the sensitivity toward my brother, who adores my daughter and is so very good to her (as is his wife.)

So the questions are this: 1) Can a Godparent be "demoted and/or replaced and 2) would any of you do it if this were permitted??

Thanks and again, sorry for the lenght of this letter.

God bless!!

Qualifications of or even the presence of Godparents does not in any way affect the validity of the Baptism.

 

[IrishAm]

May I also suggest you not be too upset about the current situation. You say that he adores your daughter, and she him – perhaps his special relationship with your child will lead him to God in ways you cannot.

 

[stbruno]

We teach baptism class and explain the criteria of parents and godparents when they come to the church to ask for baptism for the little one. However, many parent and godparents just do not take the sacrament seriously. More reasons to pray. However, the good news is the graces of the sacrament plant seeds that perhaps may take root and grow. Instead of worrying about the validity of the sacrament…preach to your brother but not with words with actions, what it means to be Christian. And with your combined prayer efforts, and his little godchild, perhaps one day he will be reconciled to the church in which he was baptized too.
Anything is possible with God.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Qualifications of or even the presence of Godparents does not in any way affect the validity of the Baptism.

As noted in another thread, Not having qualified Godparents is illicit for Solemn Sacramental Baptism. It does not however invalidate the Baptism when it is illicitly performed.

 

[THurifer2]

As noted in another thread, Not having qualified Godparents is illicit for Solemn Sacramental Baptism. It does not however invalidate the Baptism when it is illicitly performed.

Seems to me that the Godparents in this situation WERE qualified. THey just are not serious Catholics. I haven’t had time to read the OP…was there two Male godparents?

 

[Phemie]

Seems to me that the Godparents in this situation WERE qualified. THey just are not serious Catholics. I haven’t had time to read the OP…was there two Male godparents?

They were two males, but I think Bro’s point is that as non-practicing Catholics they WOULDN’T BE qualified.

 

[thistle]

As noted in another thread, Not having qualified Godparents is illicit for Solemn Sacramental Baptism. It does not however invalidate the Baptism when it is illicitly performed.

Is the Godparent (male if only one) required to be in a state of grace at the baptism. I realise he should be but is the baptism in any way affected if he is in a state of mortal sin at the time of the baptism even if he subsequently goes to Confession?

 

[Cathlacostal]

In no way could this effect validity. The priest was valid and that’s enough. The Sacrament is not defiled and cannot be defiled. Just like recieving the Eucharist while still in sin, the Eucharist cannot be defiled. The one recieving is but never the Sacrament. A Sacrament is of God , not of man.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Is the Godparent (male if only one) required to be in a state of grace at the baptism. I realise he should be but is the baptism in any way affected if he is in a state of mortal sin at the time of the baptism even if he subsequently goes to Confession?

The state of his soul does not effect the Baptism. For a God parent to be qualified they must be Baptized, Confirmed, practicing and in good standing with the Church. In a sense this “in good standing” is external not Spiritual. They cannot be Divorced and re-married in an invalid Marriage, they cannot be Excommunicated or under any other canonical restriction, they cannot be openly participating in another non-Catholic community. They cannot also be acting or speaking publicly in opposition to Catholic teaching.

 

[marlysmom]

Hi all,

I just wanted to take a moment to thank each and every one of you for your comments – as always, I am honored, humbed and in awe of my Catholic brethren – this is a community I am oh, so proud to be a part of (and always have been). Where else but God’s church, where we all want to help each other to be as holy as we can, would so many people take the time to read about and respond to a total stranger’s story/questions.

In response to Stbruno and Irisham, I totally agree that I should quietly evangelize through my actions and allow my brother’s love for my daughter transform him. The Holy Spirit might already be at work – Marly recently proudly stood up, crossed herself with HUGE gestures and said grace all by herself (Bess us o woad, fru die bounty, Aaaaaaamen!")

My brother hugged her and said “You have to teach your new cousin how to pray, OK?”

I feel so much better about this and I will do as God bless you all this Lenten and coming Paschal seasons!!

Marly(name removed by moderator)