Is my Friend Excommunicated?

[Benjamino]

A Catholic friend of mine had a brief sexual relationship with a women a few years back and it seems after one of these occasions she took the morning after pill.

On the night in question she drove them both to a local pharmacy and went inside to buy the said item. She took it then and there with the Pharmacist in a side room as is the norm in the UK.

My friend stayed in the car and didn’t participate at all other then tell the woman where the nearest Pharmacy was beforehand.

I’ve advised him that he could well be automatically excommunicated for this but I’d like a definite answer please.

 

[virtueseeking]

A Catholic friend of mine had a brief sexual relationship with a women a few years back and it seems after one of these occasions she took the morning after pill.

On the night in question she drove them both to a local pharmacy and went inside to buy the said item. She took it then and there with the Pharmacist in a side room as is the norm in the UK.

My friend stayed in the car and didn’t participate at all other then tell the woman where the nearest Pharmacy was beforehand.

I’ve advised him that he could well be automatically excommunicated for this but I’d like a definite answer please.

Would you be excommunicated if you dishonored your mother or father? Or stole, or lied, or even murdered? Excommunication is not the result of intentional sin, there would be no one.

With that reasoning every one that ever had or participated in an abortion is excommunicated. I hardly believe that is true.

I am not sure it is the best thing to discourage someone from seeking reconciliation by informing them of such a thing. Encourage them to seek reconciliation instead.

Blessings

 

[DavidFilmer]

Participating in or enabling an abortion incurs an automatic (*latae sententiae) *excommunication:

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” [CIC, can. 1398] “by the very commission of the offense,” [CIC, can. 1314] and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. [Cf. CIC, cann. 1323-1324] The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.​

However, the act of taking an abortifacient without a confirmed pregnancy (while gravely sinful) does not incur an excommunication. Catholic jurisprudence requires evidence of an *actual *offense, not a *possible *offense.

 

[Corki]

A Catholic friend of mine had a brief sexual relationship with a women a few years back and it seems after one of these occasions she took the morning after pill.

On the night in question she drove them both to a local pharmacy and went inside to buy the said item. She took it then and there with the Pharmacist in a side room as is the norm in the UK.

My friend stayed in the car and didn’t participate at all other then tell the woman where the nearest Pharmacy was beforehand.

I’ve advised him that he could well be automatically excommunicated for this but I’d like a definite answer please.

The excommunication for a procured abortion only attaches if the person involved knows that it’s an excommunicable offense. So, first of all, the woman may or may not have used the pill as an abortifacient and secondly, it doesn’t sound like your friend know of the canonical penalty. But even if your friend knew, he did not directly aid in procuring the abortion. If anything, your friend might have committed a sin of ommission by not fighting harder against the drug but that is a matter for an ordinary Confession, not an excommunication concern.

 

[anp1215]

Would you be excommunicated if you dishonored your mother or father? Or stole, or lied, or even murdered? Excommunication is not the result of intentional sin, there would be no one.

With that reasoning every one that ever had or participated in an abortion is excommunicated. I hardly believe that is true.

I am not sure it is the best thing to discourage someone from seeking reconciliation by informing them of such a thing. Encourage them to seek reconciliation instead.

Blessings

Every Catholic that procures or helps to procure a direct abortion does automatically incur excommunication.

 

[DavidFilmer]

The excommunication for a procured abortion only attaches if the person involved knows that it’s an excommunicable offense.

This is not true. The excommunication is automatic in every case (I cited the relevant Canon above). Lack of knowledge may reduce the culpability with regard to the sinful nature of the act, but the canonical penalty is not affected.

 

[Corki]

With that reasoning every one that ever had or participated in an abortion is excommunicated. I hardly believe that is true.

I am not sure it is the best thing to discourage someone from seeking reconciliation by informing them of such a thing. Encourage them to seek reconciliation instead.

Blessings

Yes, procuring or participating in a direct abortion incurs automatic excommunication provided that one does it without being forced.

As for your second statement, there is nothing about an excommunication that discourages anyone from seeking reconciliation. If anything an excommincation underscores the urgency for a person to seek reconciliation. The Sacrament of Confession is the first step in lifting an excommincation and, in the case of abortion (in many countries), is the only step needed.

 

[Corki]

This is not true. The excommunication is automatic in every case (I cited the relevant Canon above). Lack of knowledge may reduce the culpability with regard to the sinful nature of the act, but the canonical penalty is not affected.

I thought that knowledge is covered under those other referenced canons (1323 and 1324) but I couldn’t look it up (is the Vatican site still down from the hackers?). The knowledge stipulation has been posted on several diocisan websites. But you are more knowledgeable in this area than I.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I thought that knowledge is covered under those other referenced canons (1323 and 1324)

Actually, you are correct - #1323 contains a provision for ignorance.

 

[chris138]

Tell your friend to go to confession as soon as possible, he can then talk with the priest and confess his part in this and be absolved of this sin as well as the sin of sex outside of marriage(and any others). He will then be in full communion with the Church. If there is any reason he can not be absolved the priest can guide him through the process of fixing whatever impediments exist. I believe however that a priest can absolve a person from the sin of abortion. At one time I think that only the Bishop could do this.

Encourage your friend to see a good and holy priest as soon as possible.

 

[1ke]

A Catholic friend of mine had a brief sexual relationship with a women a few years back and it seems after one of these occasions she took the morning after pill.

On the night in question she drove them both to a local pharmacy and went inside to buy the said item. She took it then and there with the Pharmacist in a side room as is the norm in the UK.

My friend stayed in the car and didn’t participate at all other then tell the woman where the nearest Pharmacy was beforehand.

I’ve advised him that he could well be automatically excommunicated for this but I’d like a definite answer please.

No he isn’t automatically excommunicated. I suggest your friend go to Confession and follow the advice of his priest, not well-meaning friends or random people on the internet. Encourage him to go to Reconciliation.

There is already a serious amount of misinformation on this thread. He needs to talk directly to his priest.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Once your friend goes to confession and is absolved it really won’t matter either way - so this is probably the best way to go about it.

 

[Corki]

Actually, you are correct - #1323 contains a provision for ignorance.

Thanks! I thought I was having a senior moment.

 

[teresa_lamb]

Anybody familiar with the early 1960 or 70s way of dealing with divorce? I have been told twice, once from an ex-catholic that her mother was excommunicated by the Church for divorce and again by my step-sister, whose non-denom pastor’s mother, who was abused and so divorced his father, that the Church excommunicated her as well.

Does the church excommunicate you, or do you excommunicate yourself? Do they send you a notice?

Keep in mind the era please, and that both these families left because of this…they say the were excommunicated!

Thanks, Teresa

 

[anp1215]

Anybody familiar with the early 1960 or 70s way of dealing with divorce? I have been told twice, once from an ex-catholic that her mother was excommunicated by the Church for divorce and again by my step-sister, whose non-denom pastor’s mother, who was abused and so divorced his father, that the Church excommunicated her as well.

Does the church excommunicate you, or do you excommunicate yourself? Do they send you a notice?

Keep in mind the era please, and that both these families left because of this…they say the were excommunicated!

Thanks, Teresa

Who told them this? Divorce isn’t an excommunicable offense. It’s not even a sin in some cases, such as abuse.

 

[1ke]

Anybody familiar with the early 1960 or 70s way of dealing with divorce? I have been told twice, once from an ex-catholic that her mother was excommunicated by the Church for divorce and again by my step-sister, whose non-denom pastor’s mother, who was abused and so divorced his father, that the Church excommunicated her as well.

Does the church excommunicate you, or do you excommunicate yourself? Do they send you a notice?

Keep in mind the era please, and that both these families left because of this…they say the were excommunicated!

Thanks, Teresa

In the 1960s and 1970s, US Catholics were under the jurisdiction of the laws promulgated for the US under the Third Plenary Council of Baltimore in 1884. So, in the US divorce and remarriage (without a decree of nullity) was an excommunicable act until June 1977 when the US bishops lifted that excommunication . Since 1977, it is not an automatic excommunication but it is still, of course, a grave sin.

Either the people you spoke with were confused/misinformed and thought that divorce itself incurred excommunication, or they left out the very pertinent information about an invalid attempt at “remarriage”. No, divorce was not an excommunicable offense automatic or otherwise.

This Vatican document expresses the current position of the Church regarding the divorced and remarried vis-a-vis Communion:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20000706_declaration_en.html

 

[virtueseeking]

Yes, procuring or participating in a direct abortion incurs automatic excommunication provided that one does it without being forced.

As for your second statement, there is nothing about an excommunication that discourages anyone from seeking reconciliation. If anything an excommincation underscores the urgency for a person to seek reconciliation. The Sacrament of Confession is the first step in lifting an excommincation and, in the case of abortion (in many countries), is the only step needed.

I would not normally respond to such, but, the majority of regretful post-abortants are on the edge of despair, to inform them of such a thing risks sending them over. I am certain that you would know of the code that covers such? Causing further despair?

I will remind you of the stoning of the adulteress. No one is denying the LAW, just who it is that is choosing to apply it.

Blessings

 

[Corki]

I would not normally respond to such, but, the majority of regretful post-abortants are on the edge of despair, to inform them of such a thing risks sending them over. I am certain that you would know of the code that covers such? Causing further despair?

Blessings

You completely misunderstand what excommunication is. It is not punishment, it is medicinal. To let someone who is in despair over a past abortion know that peace and forgiveness is as close as the Confessional is the kindest thing I can think of.

As for “the code”, if you mean the section of canon law, David referenced it near the beginnning of this thread.

 

[teresa_lamb]

In the 1960s and 1970s, US Catholics were under the jurisdiction of the laws promulgated for the US under the Third Plenary Council of Baltimore in 1884. So, in the US divorce and remarriage (without a decree of nullity) was an excommunicable act until June 1977 when the US bishops lifted that excommunication . Since 1977, it is not an automatic excommunication but it is still, of course, a grave sin.

Either the people you spoke with were confused/misinformed and thought that divorce itself incurred excommunication, or they left out the very pertinent information about an invalid attempt at “remarriage”. No, divorce was not an excommunicable offense automatic or otherwise.

This Vatican document expresses the current position of the Church regarding the divorced and remarried vis-a-vis Communion:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20000706_declaration_en.html

Thank you for the link. It was a confusing.

The first person who told me about her mother’s excommunication, said that her mother went to the priest seeking a divorce. They were a very large devout Catholic family, the father was an alcoholic and abusive. The priest told the mother a divorce wasn’t possible and wouldn’t support her in her decision. She divorced him anyway, never remarried that I know of, (she was pretty old when this happened) and later became mentallyill, and died. The family blamed the Church and most left it.This person happened to be my employer.

As I mentioned before, the second person said her pastor who was raised Catholic in his very young years left the Church with his mother (like he had a choice, he was possibly 6 yrs old) when she sought a divorce, once again from an abusive husband, and she needed some sort of financial aid too and the priest refused her and excommunicated her. I am pretty sure this woman remarried, I know the ex-husband did.

I don’t think I have been told the whole story from either one of those two. I don’t see my ex-employer very often, but me and my step sister speak with each other often enough. Next time she brings it up I will be better prepared to engage…ask for a little more detail. I never inquire about it, she’s the one that brings it up…

 

[teresa_lamb]

Who told them this? Divorce isn’t an excommunicable offense. It’s not even a sin in some cases, such as abuse.

Thanks for responding. I am a slow typist on a touch screen, sorry I replied on 1ke’s post.

The first person who told me her mother was excommunicated had to of gotten the story from her own mother. The second person, is my step sister who said her pastor told their little congregation about why he left the CC which was his mother being excommunicated over divorcing his father, so I would imagine the pastor’s mother told him the story when he grew up because he was a very young boy when it happened. I can ask my sister next time I speak with her, but it probably won’t be relevant by then because time passes and these threads move along quickly.

Once again, thank you for replying to my question…