Is my husband being self righteous by saying...?

[Weezir]

Here’s the scoop:
My best friend, Renee, has been divorced for 7 years. My cousin, Robert, has been divorced for 3 years. Renee has an 8 year old daughter and Robert has a 4 year old daughter. They are both in their early 30s, very responsible, mature adults. Renee decided to ask Robert on a date. They have met at several of our family get togethers in the past, though both were married at that time. In January, he attended her work Christmas party with her. They had a great time, had lots in common, and cried leaving each other. This is a long distance relationship but they talk on the phone every other night for 1-2 hours. He went to her house for Valentine’s day weekend. When I talked to her, she told me they had a great time, and were in love. I thought this was moving fast but who was I to say? Well, it’s been a week and she called me today because she had to tell me something but I was sworn to secrecy. NO PROBLEM. Of course I asked if I could tell my husband because I can’t keep anything from him. She said of course. She told me that my cousin proposed to her and wanted me to be her matron of honor (again):ehh: I said of course I would. I am genuinely happy for them. They truly are wonderful people and are very compatible. They want to plan a very small wedding for October. The reason its a secret is because Renee hasn’t even met Robert’s daughter yet. They don’t want the family to know until they have all the details worked out about where they want to live…child custody issues…etc. I understand and respect that. By the way, they are both Lutheran. This is the dilema…I told my conservative Catholic husband about it while we were out to dinner tonight. He said, “I hope you said that you wouldn’t stand up for her.” I said, “I told Renee that I would.” He said, “Then you have as much common sense and they do.” He went off on some tangent about them only knowing each other 6 weeks. What was I thinking condoning their engagement? Etc…Etc…
I asked him who made him their judge? This is their second marriage. They knew what they were looking for. I think it’s fast too but that doesn’t mean it isn’t right. They will have to go through some pastoral counseling before they can marry in either church.
Is there a some rule that says you shouldn’t get married unless you’ve known each other a certain amount of time? I would like to send them to an engagement encounter, but I don’t know if they would go.
Anyway, my question is…Is my husband being self righteous about this situation? Should I not be in their wedding? I really want some opinions. I have time because they won’t be telling the family for a couple of weeks yet.
If I forgot to include any pertinent information, just ask. My fingers are not typing as fast as my brain is thinking.

~Weezir

 

[rayne89]

I would not be very comfotable with this situation. The 4 year old hasn’t met her soon to be new step mom yet? I think they are going waaayyy too fast. It doesn’t sound like their considering the children at all. Kids need time to adjust to new situations - they’re just going to dump this in their lap.
After both going thru a divorce one would thing that a person be more cautious before jumping into another marriage. Six weeks is hardly time to get know anyone you want to spend the rest of your life with. Sounds like a couple of love-sick teenagers not responsible adults.
Are you a Catholic? I’m not sure if you even allowed by the church to be a witness (matron of honor) in a protestant ceremony. You’d be witnessing to two people going against what Jesus taught in the Bible. You’d be giving your approval to an adulterous relationship.

11. He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her;
12. and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
Mark 10:11-12

I’m sorry but I side with your husband on this one.

 

[Weezir]

rayne89:

I would not be very comfotable with this situation. The 4 year old hasn’t met her soon to be new step mom yet? I think they are going waaayyy too fast. It doesn’t sound like their considering the children at all. Kids need time to adjust to new situations - they’re just going to dump this in their lap.
After both going thru a divorce one would thing that a person be more cautious before jumping into another marriage. Six weeks is hardly time to get know anyone you want to spend the rest of your life with. Sounds like a couple of love-sick teenagers not responsible adults.
Are you a Catholic? I’m not sure if you even allowed by the church to be a witness (matron of honor) in a protestant ceremony. You’d be witnessing to two people going against what Jesus taught in the Bible. You’d be giving your approval to an adulterous relationship.

11. He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her;
12. and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
Mark 10:11-12

I’m sorry but I side with your husband on this one.

Thanks for the reply! I was confirmed a year ago into the Catholic church and I never gave it a thought as to whether I COULD (according to Catholic teaching) stand up in their wedding or not. I will check into that. I agree that they are moving fast, but they aren’t getting married tomorrow. We are talking 8 months down the road.
My husband will be thrilled that someone agrees with him though
They are love sick and I do believe they are both lonely and sick of dating and ending up with disappointment.
~Weezir

 

[Ruth101]

Depending what the reasons were for either divorce here is what the Lord says.

Matthew 19:1-9 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the region of Judea beyond Jordan; And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there. The Pharisees also came unto him, testing him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they two shall be one flesh? Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder. They said unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He said unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts allowed you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her who is put away does commit adultery.

This was addressed to all, and is still binding.

Here is what is lawful and right according to the previous statement by Jesus Himself, and the following is what He gave Paul for those who have now believed in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 I say therefore to the unmarried (divorced) and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot have self-control, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

1 Corinthians 7:10-11 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Paul deals with virgins etc. elsewhere.

The Lord gave us free will, and if you are convinced in your mind and your decision agrees with what is right according to what God says then it is right for you to stand up for this friend a second time; there is no problem, it is between you and God.

I hope this helps.

 

[Lorarose]

You would need to get advice from a knowledgeable faithful priest about your ability to stand up or not for your friend.

You may want to discuss some issues that concern you about all the particulars with her - she may be so wrapped up in the excitement that she could benefit from your advice.
You may also need her to set your mind at ease about some things too.

But yeah…I think your gut feeling about your husband’s response is probably accurate.
He may have genuine concerns - but these concerns should be out of love - not out of a feeling of superiority.

 

[rayne89]

Ruth101:

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 I say therefore to the unmarried (divorced) and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot have self-control, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

QUOTE]

Excuse me you should clarify when you add your own interpretation to scripture.
1 Cor 7:8-11
8. Now to the unmarried and to widows, I say: it is a good thing for them to remain as they are, as I do, but if they cannot exercise self-control they should marry, for it is better to marry than to be on fire.
10. To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord): a wife should not separate from her husband
11. --and** if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband**–and a husband should not divorce his wife

It does not say the divorced like you added in ( )

 

[Ruth101]

rayne89:

Ruth101:

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 I say therefore to the unmarried (divorced) and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot have self-control, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn with passion

.
QUOTE]
Excuse me you should clarify when you add your own interpretation to scripture.
1 Cor 7:8-11
8. Now to the unmarried and to widows, I say: it is a good thing for them to remain as they are, as I do, but if they cannot exercise self-control they should marry, for it is better to marry than to be on fire.
10. To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord): a wife should not separate from her husband
11. --and** if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband**–and a husband should not divorce his wife. It does not say the divorced like you added in ( )
Excuse me, but Paul addresses virgins too. Who are virgins? Those who have never been married. If you notice the context of the sentence he says 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. This is where I get my information from. Obviously this person has been sexually active with the spouse. This is not my interpretation.
This is from the Greek Lexicon:
**G22 **ἄγαμοςagamos **Thayer Definition:**1) unmarried, unwedded, single Part of Speech: adjective

Now here is the definition of a virgin:
**G3933 **παρθένος parthenos
Thayer Definition:
****1) a virgin1a) a marriageable maiden 1b) a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man 1c) one’s marriageable daughter 2) a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom attendant on idolatry, and so has kept his chastity 2a) one who has never had intercourse with women Part of Speech: noun feminine

I hope this helps.

 

[martino]

It would be scandalous for you to even attend the wedding. They are both already married in the eyes of God. “What God joins together let no man put asunder.” The marriage bond is inseparable regardless of civil divorce. We cannot marry, get divorced and then re-marry somebody else.

Your husband is right but for the wrong reason. How long they have known each other is irrelavent, the fact that they both already have spouses is the problem. It doesn’t even matter that the Lutheran Church will marry them anyway, they don’t know any better. But you are Catholic and you should know better. The Catholic Church is the only Church that still upholds God’s prohibition against divorce and re-marriage.

 

[rayne89]

Ruth101:

Excuse me, but Paul addresses virgins too. Who are virgins? Those who have never been married.

Would you like to explain to me what this means in Greek than?
11. He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her;
12. and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”
Mark 10:11-12

1. "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. Luke 16:18
2. "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife must give her a bill of divorce.’
3. But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
   Matthew 5:31-32
4. Some Pharisees approached him, and tested him, saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause whatever?”
5. He said in reply, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator `made them male and female’
6. and said, `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
7. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate."
   Matthew 19:3-6
8. I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery."
9. [His] disciples said to him, “If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
10. He answered, "Not all can accept [this] word, but only those to whom that is granted.
11. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

Thses are the virgins I always understood that he was referring to. (in purple).

In anycase when you add a word in the middle of scripture that isn’t there you should at least make a note of it because the word divorce does not appear there.

 

[Benedictus]

I think your husband is right. The fact that Robert hasn’t even met Renee’s daughter frightens me. They are obviously being selfish and care more about their infatuation than the well-being of their children.

If I understand the situation correctly, this is a long-distance relationship, so when they get married, one or both of them would either being taking the child a long distance away from the other parent (i.e., ex-spouse) or would be abandoning his or her child for the new spouse.

The fact that they were previously married and would be living in an adulterous relationship–as scandalous as it would be–is of less importance.

 

[1ke]

Your husband is right on target regarding the amount of time they’ve known each other and the facts surrounding the secrecy, issues with building a blended family, and his reservations about their marriage. Why is it that when someone makes valid observations (which go counter to the warm fuzzy, anything goes crowd) about a situation they are being “judgmental” ? I think he’s being quite level headed and astute.

Of equal importance is that you, as a Catholic, should not be standing up at a non-Catholic wedding of divorced people intending to enter in to an invalid second marriage. They will be committing adultery. You should not stand up as a witness to this marriage.

 

[Timidity]

Benedictus:

The fact that Robert hasn’t even met Renee’s daughter frightens me. They are obviously being selfish and care more about their infatuation than the well-being of their children.

I would think it’s just the opposite. If a single parent is dating, it’s much better to shield the child from dating partner after dating partner. It’s only once marriage is almost definate should the child be brought into it.

 

[Tom]

Ruth101:

Excuse me, but Paul addresses virgins too. Who are virgins? Those who have never been married.

Excuse me also, but virginity does not depend on marriage. To imply so is to say there are no individuals who had sex prior to marriage. It also does not say those married are not virgins, seems to me the book of Tobit tells the story of a woman who was married 7 times and was still a “virgin” since her husbands all died prior to having sex with their wife.Tobit 3,8 For she had been married to seven husbands, but the wicked demon Asmodeus killed them off before they could have intercourse with her, as it is prescribed for wives. So the maid said to her: "You are the one who strangles your husbands! Look at you! You have already been married seven times, but you have had no joy with any one of your husbands.

 

[kmktexas]

Timidity:

I would think it’s just the opposite. If a single parent is dating, it’s much better to shield the child from dating partner after dating partner. It’s only once marriage is almost definate should the child be brought into it.

However, these are not SINGLE parents. They are divorced parents. There is a huge difference. There are two other adults involved (the spouses).

Is it possible that the child doesn’t know about this because of the problems it might cause for the wife? Depending on the state and the custody agreement, having an overnight guest (you did say he visited her for a weekend) could jeapordize custody or visitation.

I would not stand up in this wedding, if I were you. The circumstances do not match up to the description of them both being “very responsible, mature adults”.

 

[Benedictus]

Well, I don’t think that children should be introduced to every man a divorced mother dates (or woman in the case of a father), but these two seem to be serious. I took it as an indication that they weren’t really considering the child’s feelings or well-being.

Frankly, I don’t think parents with children under 18 should date.

 

[kmktexas]

Frankly, I don’t think parents with children under 18 should date.

Amen to that, with a possible exception if widowed when the children are very young.

 

[Pug]

How in the world is a widow to secure a husband and father for her children? This seems odd. Surely it is fine for her to locate such a man if it is God’s will, and spend the time required to get to know him.

Are you guys just saying they shouldn’t go out to the movies alone or are you saying she should not get to know a man to remarry after being widowed?

 

[1ke]

Pug:

How in the world is a widow to secure a husband and father for her children? This seems odd. Surely it is fine for her to locate such a man if it is God’s will, and spend the time required to get to know him.

Are you guys just saying they shouldn’t go out to the movies alone or are you saying she should not get to know a man to remarry after being widowed?

Pug, the first post was talking about both parties being DIVORCED, not widowed.

Widows and widowers are free to remarry. They certainly need to be sensitive to their children’s needs and stage of grief. But, there is no problem with widows or widowers dating and remarrying.

 

[bapcathluth]

These people are committing no sin in the eyes of their church–the Lutheran one. I don’t see a problem with them remarrying and doing so early. My parents got married after knowing each other only six months. That means they decided much sooner than that. They were married over forty years until my mom died.

My husbands’ cousin got married after knowing her man only a few months. By the third date they knew they were getting married. They have been married 35 years.

If two people are really mature and know what they want, I don’t see the problem with a short courtship.

I would stand up in the wedding if you feel like they are not making a mistake.

 

[Benedictus]

bapcathluth:

These people are committing no sin in the eyes of their church–the Lutheran one.

They are wrong. Divorce and remarriage is clearly adultery. Standing up in a pseudo-wedding would be hypocritical. The “wedding” would be nothing more than a celebration of an gravely immoral relationship.