Is my marriage a valid Catholic marriage?

[catholiciluvit]

I’ve been married for 25 years. I have always wondered if my marriage is actually valid in the church because at the time of my wedding I was a young, ignorate, prideful and uneducated Catholic. My then fiance and I were living together in sin before we married. We lied to the priest and had a Catholic Mass and wedding. Shortly after our wedding I had great remorse, went to confession and told our priest everything. I also told my now husband he must do the same and he did. I have come to love my faith and all it stands for, but I have always been afraid our marriage is invalid as we both were in mortal sin when we took our vows.
I am a cradle Catholic and my husband was baptized in the Catholic church, but never went to church. He married someone else before me in an Episcopal church and received a legal divorce. Our parish priest told us because he was baptized in the Catholic Church his first marriage was invalid, so he didn’t need to obtain an annulment, so he did not.
Please, someone tell me where I stand and if we need to have our marriage validated in the church?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You told the priest in confession, so if your marriage was invalid the priest would have said something about it then. He didn’t, so you’re good.

Also, if being in a state of sin would invalidate wedding vows, the Church would add a requirement for a Catholic getting married to have gone to Confession x number of days before the wedding.

Edited to add, if you have a concern about the advice you received from your priest about not needing the annulment, do speak to another priest about it - but if some mistake was made, it’s not the fault of you or your husband, since you were honest about the divorce with the priest and he made the decision.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I’ve been married for 25 years. I have always wondered if my marriage is actually valid in the church because at the time of my wedding I was a young, ignorate, prideful and uneducated Catholic. My then fiance and I were living together in sin before we married. We lied to the priest and had a Catholic Mass and wedding. Shortly after our wedding I had great remorse, went to confession and told our priest everything. I also told my now husband he must do the same and he did. I have come to love my faith and all it stands for, but I have always been afraid our marriage is invalid as we both were in mortal sin when we took our vows.
I am a cradle Catholic and my husband was baptized in the Catholic church, but never went to church. He married someone else before me in an Episcopal church and received a legal divorce. Our parish priest told us because he was baptized in the Catholic Church his first marriage was invalid, so he didn’t need to obtain an annulment, so he did not.
Please, someone tell me where I stand and if we need to have our marriage validated in the church?

I think you need to speak with a Priest on this.

If a priest married you (despite your lie about living together) knowing that he was previously married that’s a serious thing–and that’s on him.

It is far too tangled to unweave on the internet, that’s for sure.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

The validity of a marriage is not affected if the parties were in a state of sin at the time. Be at peace about that. About whether your husband should have gotten a formal decree of nullity years ago, I would consult your pastor. Stop worrying, ask the question.

 

[Phemie]

Your state of sin would not invalidate your marriage. You probably didn’t receive all the graces from the sacrament until you confessed but that has no impact on the validity.

The priest who married you was correct that your husband’s prior marriage was invalid because it was outside the Church. Don’t know where you live but I know that my previous bishop gave at least one of his priests permission to deal with this in the marriage preparation rather than submit to the Tribunal, so it may well be that such was the case where you were. And for all you know he may have submitted the information to the Tribunal and there’s a “freedom to marry” certificate in your marriage file at the parish.

Often, things we think we have to do are in fact done by the priest in the time prior to the marriage. For example, we often hear “you need permission from the bishop” or “you need a dispensation” and think we have to ask for those. In fact the priest does all that as part of the prenuptial investigation.

 

[1ke]

Please, someone tell me where I stand and if we need to have our marriage validated in the church?

I am not sure why you doubt your priest.

Your priest is correct regarding the invalidity of your husband’s attempted first marriage in the Episcopal Church. It was not a valid marriage, not presumed valid in any way, and he was free to marry you.

Your marriage to each other was in the Catholic Church. You lied to the priest, not to each other. That was wrong, but did not impede your invalidate your consent and intent. Your marriage to each other is valid.

Be at peace.

 

[1ke]

If a priest married you (despite your lie about living together) knowing that he was previously married that’s a serious thing–and that’s on him.

The priest is correct regarding the attempt at marriage being invalid and the man being free to enter into marriage. This is the premarital investigation.

Your response seems to imply that something is wrong, and nothing is wrong.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

If a priest married you (despite your lie about living together) knowing that he was previously married that’s a serious thing–and that’s on him.

The priest is correct regarding the attempt at marriage being invalid and the man being free to enter into marriage. This is the premarital investigation.

Your response seems to imply that something is wrong, and nothing is wrong.

An Episcopalian, I believe, could enter into a licit natural marriage. That’s what doesn’t seem right to me.

 

[1ke]

An Episcopalian, I believe, could enter into a licit natural marriage.

Anyone can enter into a valid, natural marriage if they marry an unbaptized person.

However, this isn’t about the Episcopalian. This is about the Catholic who attempted marriage to an Episcopalian outside the Church without dispensation.

I think you may have the wrong idea about what a natural marriage is. A natural marriage is a valid marriage involving one or more unbaptized person. When two baptized people marry each other validly, the marriage is a sacrament. When two unbaptized people or one baptized & one unbaptized person marry validly it’s a natural marriage.

The key is that it is a valid marriage.

We are not talking about a valid marriage. A Catholic marrying a non-Catholic outside the Church without dispensation attempts marriage invalidly. There is no valid marriage.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

An Episcopalian, I believe, could enter into a licit natural marriage.

Anyone can enter into a valid, natural marriage if they marry an unbaptized person.

However, this isn’t about the Episcopalian. This is about the Catholic who attempted marriage to an Episcopalian outside the Church without dispensation.

I think you may have the wrong idea about what a natural marriage is. A natural marriage is a valid marriage involving one or more unbaptized person. When two baptized people marry each other validly, the marriage is a sacrament. When two unbaptized people or one baptized & one unbaptized person marry validly it’s a natural marriage.

The key is that it is a valid marriage.

We are not talking about a valid marriage. A Catholic marrying a non-Catholic outside the Church without dispensation attempts marriage invalidly. There is no valid marriage.

I was not quite following if he was Baptized Catholic but raised Episcoplain or what. That is important.

He would still need a valid “lack of form” in order to be licicitly married. A Priest saying “oh it’s fine” would not suffice.

 

[1ke]

He would still need a valid “lack of form” in order to be licicitly married. A Priest saying “oh it’s fine” would not suffice.

This isn’t accurate.

There is no such thing as a “lack of form order”. Yes, dioceses in the US tend to run these through the diocese as a paperwork exercise. That is not envisioned in, nor required by, canon law.

The premarital investigation suffices, and the pastor does the premarital investigation. (Moreover, this is absolutely how it is done in most countries outside the US and Canada).

This was also 25 years ago, keep in mind. While many diocese have this adminstrative procedure today, it is not necessarily the case that it was so 25 years ago. And, even if the diocese had such an administrative procedure and the priest didn’t follow it that has no impact on validity of the marriage he performed, per the law of the Church.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

He would still need a valid “lack of form” in order to be licicitly married. A Priest saying “oh it’s fine” would not suffice.

This isn’t accurate.

There is no such thing as a “lack of form order”. Yes, dioceses in the US tend to run these through the diocese as a paperwork exercise. That is not envisioned in, nor required by, canon law.

The premarital investigation suffices, and the pastor does the premarital investigation. (Moreover, this is absolutely how it is done in most countries outside the US and Canada).

This was also 25 years ago, keep in mind. While many diocese have this adminstrative procedure today, it is not necessarily the case that it was so 25 years ago. And, even if the diocese had such an administrative procedure and the priest didn’t follow it that has no impact on validity of the marriage he performed, per the law of the Church.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P40.HTM

Reading Cannon law I don’t think the church would quite agree. There are several points in this which would cause concern over the OP’s marriage.

Which is why she should be talking to a priest and work with a canon lawyer on the diocesan level. There are too many ambiguous details that could sway the judgement of what happened.

 

[1ke]

Reading Cannon law I don’t think the church would quite agree. There are several points in this which would cause concern over the OP’s marriage.

No, there isn’t. If you believe so, please spell it out.

Which is why she should be talking to a priest

She already did work with her priest, when she got married in the Church.

work with a canon lawyer on the diocesan level

There is nothing here that needs a canon lawyer from the diocese. At all.

There are too many ambiguous details that could sway the judgement of what happened.

There is absolutely nothing ambiguous here at all.

 

[catholiciluvit]

Until recently I have never given a second thought to my priest telling me we didn’t need to get an annulment of the first Epicopal marriage. I’ve had a couple of friends who are in the same situation I was 25 years ago. My current parish priest will not marry them. So, it made me question my own marriage.

 

[catholiciluvit]

He was baptized in the Catholic church as a toddler. His father was Catholic, his mother agnostic. He says he remembers going to church a couple of times as a small child and then that was it. He married his high school sweetheart in the Episcopal church. She left him for another man a couple of years later. We met and started dating. I am a cradle Catholic. We started going to mass together regularly. We attended RCIA, engagement counceling, he made his first confession, communion and we were both confirmed 3 months before our marriage.
I’m grateful God humbled me enough to realize we needed to reconcile ourselves to Him and receive the sacrament of confession shortly after we were married.
We attend mass weekly wherever we are and have been faithful to raise our children in the church and to know their faith.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Until recently I have never given a second thought to my priest telling me we didn’t need to get an annulment of the first Epicopal marriage. I’ve had a couple of friends who are in the same situation I was 25 years ago. My current parish priest will not marry them. So, it made me question my own marriage.

Despite 1ke’s assertions you’d be best to actually talk to a priest/cannon lawyer. Even if all is fine (which I think there IS some valid doubt) you would be best to get it from an authoritiative source and not the internet.

 

[1ke]

Until recently I have never given a second thought to my priest telling me we didn’t need to get an annulment of the first Epicopal marriage. I’ve had a couple of friends who are in the same situation I was 25 years ago. My current parish priest will not marry them. So, it made me question my own marriage.

Your marriage is valid. The marriage your husband had in the Episcopal church was not valid. Trust that your priest followed he procedures properly. Talk to your current pastor if you have questions. Again, trust your priest. If he’s already told you that your marriage is valid, be at peace.

The situation of your friends may be different. The first marriage may have been with permission of the Church or somehow with another variable not at issue in your situation.

I understand why it may bring questions to your mind, but please trust your priest in this matter. Also, don’t assume your situation and their situations are identical.

 

[1ke]

He was baptized in the Catholic church as a toddler. His father was Catholic, his mother agnostic. He says he remembers going to church a couple of times as a small child and then that was it. He married his high school sweetheart in the Episcopal church. She left him for another man a couple of years later. We met and started dating. I am a cradle Catholic. We started going to mass together regularly. We attended RCIA, engagement counceling, he made his first confession, communion and we were both confirmed 3 months before our marriage.

I’m grateful God humbled me enough to realize we needed to reconcile ourselves to Him and receive the sacrament of confession shortly after we were married.

We attend mass weekly wherever we are and have been faithful to raise our children in the church and to know their faith.

Please trust your pastor in this matter. He prepared you for marriage. He confirmed you both. He did premarital investigation of the matter. Be at peace. If you absolutely cannot let it rest, talk to your current pastor.

 

[catholiciluvit]

Thank you so much for your help. You are most likely correct in your statement that my friends situations may have other circumstances that I am not aware of and they may not be exactly the same as mine.

Our priest at the time is still a wonderful priest and I have every confidence he did his duty at the time of our marriage. He has always been a very diligent man and priest and works closely with the current bishop.
He made us track down my husbands baptismal certificate within the Los Angelos Diocese, because my husbands parents didn’t keep it. They couldn’t remember the name of the Catholic Church he was baptised in and even had the secretary at the parish stand in as his Godmother as they only had a Godfather present. In the days before the internet that was no small task.
We found it and had a certified copy sent to our priest so we could continue the process of getting married in the church.

 

[Catholicos]

I think you need to speak with a Priest on this.

If a priest married you (despite your lie about living together) knowing that he was previously married that’s a serious thing–and that’s on him…

Agreed and good advice.

Our parish priest told us because he was baptized in the Catholic Church his first marriage was invalid, so he didn’t need to obtain an annulment, so he did not.
Please, someone tell me where I stand and if we need to have our marriage validated in the church?

That may very well be the case. Because he may have not gotten a dispensation before he had married outside the Church that may have invalidated that marriage so that he was then free to marry you in the Church. The thing is, I don’t think a single priest has that authority and duty to determine that. The annulment process and tribunal is delegated to assume that very duty. Their investigation is more thorough and more importantly binding according to canon laws.

Hopefully his first marriage was as you say, and he was free to marry you. It’s wonderful not only that you are still together, but you have the conscience and concern to make all things right, for the love of God and each other. Let us know how it turns out, and God be with you both.