Is my marriage valid?

[Nelka]

The reason I told dh last year, was because this was starting to really gnaw at my heart. We are getting stronger in our faith, and it just didn’t feel right to hold it from him anymore. Was it a mistake to tell him? I don’t know…

Any other thoughts?

Did he ask you or did you just decide to tell him? He may wonder why you told him, maybe he thinks you tried to hurt him by telling him?

Obviously I do not know him, he might not even care and just thinks about the life you have now and in the future.

 

[Lynne72]

I forgot to add: if we renew our vows, does this make our marriage valid? Since he is now consenting to everything that he now knows about me? The priest he talked to, told him we should renew our vows.

 

[Lynne72]

Did he ask you or did you just decide to tell him? He may wonder why you told him, maybe he thinks you tried to hurt him by telling him?

Obviously I do not know him, he might not even care and just thinks about the life you have now and in the future.

He did not ask me at the time I told him, but the issue has come up a few times during our 19 year marriage, because my best friend knew about the lie, and very early on, had told him and I proceeded to deny it. I know that was a mistake, and this was part of the reason why I ended up telling him. I didn’t want to die before him, and then he found out somehow. I know that me telling him greatly hurt him, but we are working it out. He forgives me.

 

[Corki]

If certain serious information was intentionally withheld to ensure a marriage, then the other spouse would (unwittingly) be consenting to marry a person who actually doesn’t exist, resulting in defective consent on his part.**Canon 1098 – **A person contracts invalidly who enters marriage inveigled by deceit, perpetrated in order to secure consent, concerning some quality of the other party, which of its very nature can seriously disrupt the partnership of conjugal life.

**Canon 1097 – **§2 Error about a quality of the person, even though it be the reason for the contract, does not render a marriage invalid unless this quality is directly and principally intended.

archatl.com/offices/tribunal/grounds.html

The bolded is what is missing. This omission does not “by it’s very nature” affect a quality of the OP.

Thank you everyone for your responses!

I have to clear up a few things:

My dh does NOT want to leave me, and tells me he never would. This question really arose because one of the requirements to enter the diaconate is that you “must be validly married for at least 7 years”. I wasn’t sure if validity is only an issue if you obtain a divorce.

Dh tells me he would definitely have married me anyway, had he known I was with someone before him.

I was 15 when I lost my virginity. It happened one time, and when I met my future dh ( at age 18) I had put it far behind me, and truly considered myself a “virgin” I. My heart. I certainly was not trying to purposely deceive him. I can’t believe how foolish I was, now looking back!

The reason I told dh last year, was because this was starting to really gnaw at my heart. We are getting stronger in our faith, and it just didn’t feel right to hold it from him anymore. Was it a mistake to tell him? I don’t know…

Any other thoughts?

Again, your marriage “enjoys the presumption of validity”. That’s all that matters for entry in the diaconate. You got married in the Church. Any thing else ONLY matters if there is a breakdown in the marriage, a civil divorce AND an investigation, none of which is happening here.

 

[Vico]

The bolded is what is missing. This omission does not “by it’s very nature” affect a quality of the OP. …

At the link…

Canon 1098 comment:Did you or your former spouse intentionally misrepresent or conceal information necessary for the other person to make a well-informed marital decision? Did someone else (a parent, for example) misrepresent or conceal information necessary for a well-informed marital decision? Was the deception intentionally done in order to get the other person’s agreement to marry? If the truth had been known, and the deception not carried out, would the marriage not have occurred? If the deceit was later discovered, did it have an immediate effect on the marriage? Did the separation or divorce occur because of this?
Canon 1097.2 comment:Was there a certain quality or trait that either you or your former spouse were looking for in a prospective husband or wife (for example, a certain social status, marital status, education, a certain profession, religious conviction, freedom from addiction or disease, freedom from an arrest record)? Did you or your former spouse consider that trait so important in a prospective spouse that you would marry only someone who possessed that trait? Would this marriage have been called off if the other person did not possess that quality? When it was learned that you or your former spouse did not possess that quality, did the other spouse react with shock or surprise? Did you separate immediately afterward, or did your marital relationship change immediately afterward?

 

[dans0622]

I forgot to add: if we renew our vows, does this make our marriage valid? Since he is now consenting to everything that he now knows about me? The priest he talked to, told him we should renew our vows.

Hello,

Based on what you have said in this thread, I see no good reason to doubt the validity of your marriage. You can renew your vows if you want but it won’t make your marriage valid, because it is already valid.

Dan

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

My dh does NOT want to leave me, and tells me he never would. This question really arose because one of the requirements to enter the diaconate is that you “must be validly married for at least 7 years”. I wasn’t sure if validity is only an issue if you obtain a divorce.

You were married in a Catholic Church. Your marriage is presumed valid until shown otherwise. Don’t give it second thought.

With regard to renewing vows, there is no such thing in the Catholic Church. You can’t receive that sacrament of marriage twice.

Regarding:

He recently went to confession and told the priest the situation and the priest told him he could easily get an annulment (meaning our marriage isn’t valid),

I have no idea what your husband told the priest, so I won’t comment on that nor the priest’s advice. However, I do not believe that an annulment would be easy to get at all, simply because I don’t see a basis for filing one. The basis you are claiming would invalidate the marriage is the fact that you weren’t a virgin. Furthermore, you husband doesn’t care. Not being a virgin does not invalidate a marriage, and the fact that your husband doesn’t care means you simply have to case for annulment…none. Your marriage is valid; period.

 

[1ke]

This question really arose because one of the requirements to enter the diaconate is that you “must be validly married for at least 7 years”.

He has been validly married for 19 years.

Any other thoughts?

Your marriage is valid and the priest who started all this doubt was in serious error to do so.
He had no business placing doubts of validity in your husband’s mind, and moreover his statement that your husband could “easily” get an annulment was ridiculous and flat out wrong.

Put this behind you. You and he are validly married.

 

[1ke]

I forgot to add: if we renew our vows, does this make our marriage valid? Since he is now consenting to everything that he now knows about me? The priest he talked to, told him we should renew our vows.

There is nothing to make valid, your marriage is already valid.

Frankly, the priest doesn’t seem to know what he’s talking about, based on the info you’ve given. Unless your husband told him something substantially different than what you’ve said here-- the priest is WAY out in left field.

Listen to Dan0622, he is a canon lawyer on a marriage tribunal: valid marriage. period.

 

[Rence]

Think about what this means. Most couples, especially those getting married later in life, don’t sit down and do a general confession to their future spouse of all of their past activities. It’s certainly not part of the marriage preparation process. If “full disclosure” of nonmaterial information is what makes a marriage valid, almost no marriages would be valid.

The requirement is full consent, not full disclosure. Lack of consent is usually some kind of coercion.

One cannot give full consent when the other party is purposely withholding something that they already suspect would make the consenting party not agree to the marriage. Period. That’s a consent issue. There are many things that could be deal-breakers. You don’t even give the consenting party a chance by withholding that information from them, and purposely doing so.

 

[Rence]

So… divorcing the woman whom you married in 1995, because she had sex with you before marriage – but wasn’t a virgin when she did – and because this now ticks you off?

No, that wouldn’t be a reason for possible declaration of nullity at all. What would be a big reason is lying about it before the vows were taken, especially when one thinks it might tip the other party into calling off the wedding if they did know.

Yeah… vocations departments would completely understand that, and would give you a big ol’ thumbs-up for that decision to divorce…

Yeah…the two are unrelated.

Fair enough. And in this case, the knowledge is “my wife wasn’t a virgin on our wedding day.”

No, that wasn’t what he didn’t know. What he didn’t know is that she slept with someone else before her. Think about it: if it wasn’t a big deal, like you’re saying, she would have not lied to him about it.

. For this to affect his consent, he would have to claim that he wouldn’t have married her if he knew she wasn’t a virgin. This is a guy who had premarital sex with her. You’re gonna suggest – with a straight face – that this is a reasonable objection? Puh-leeze…

Actually, he would simply have to claim that he wouldn’t have married her if he knew she had a previous sexual partner besides him. And if a betrothed lied about it, there’s a great possibility that she thought he would in fact call off the wedding…otherwise why lie about it?

but they have no right to this expectation if they had sex with their ‘virgin’ before marriage… and then at marriage, balked because their fiancee wasn’t a virgin. That’s just ludicrous.

Again, the issue was she had another sexual partner besides him. Not that she wasn’t a virgin at the time of marriage. He already knew she wasn’t a virgin when he slept with her. However, he did believe, according to the OP, that she was a virgin up to that point. Big difference.

And, I’d assert, you have no right to claim shock at the lack of sexual purity from your spouse if you’ve consented to sexual relations with her prior to marriage… :sad_yes:

You do have the right to be shocked if the person lied to you about a previous sexual encounter. If you are asked whether or not you are a virgin by your partner, you don’t have the right to lie about it without expecting it to backfire when the truth comes out.

 

[Rence]

You should both go together & discuss this situation with a Priest who would be able to give you advisement.

That is the best advice here so far.

 

[Rence]

Thank you everyone for your responses!

I have to clear up a few things:

My dh does NOT want to leave me, and tells me he never would. This question really arose because one of the requirements to enter the diaconate is that you “must be validly married for at least 7 years”. I wasn’t sure if validity is only an issue if you obtain a divorce.

You are validly married. All marriages are considered valid by the Church unless proven otherwise by the Church.

Dh tells me he would definitely have married me anyway, had he known I was with someone before him.

Then there is no consent issue and the case is closed. You heard it right from the horse’s mouth

 

[Rence]

At the link…

Canon 1098 comment:Did you or your former spouse intentionally misrepresent or conceal information necessary for the other person to make a well-informed marital decision? Did someone else (a parent, for example) misrepresent or conceal information necessary for a well-informed marital decision? Was the deception intentionally done in order to get the other person’s agreement to marry? If the truth had been known, and the deception not carried out, would the marriage not have occurred? If the deceit was later discovered, did it have an immediate effect on the marriage? Did the separation or divorce occur because of this?
Canon 1097.2 comment:Was there a certain quality or trait that either you or your former spouse were looking for in a prospective husband or wife (for example, a certain social status, marital status, education, a certain profession, religious conviction, freedom from addiction or disease, freedom from an arrest record)? Did you or your former spouse consider that trait so important in a prospective spouse that you would marry only someone who possessed that trait? Would this marriage have been called off if the other person did not possess that quality? When it was learned that you or your former spouse did not possess that quality, did the other spouse react with shock or surprise? Did you separate immediately afterward, or did your marital relationship change immediately afterward?

Thank you!!

 

[Corki]

At the link…

Canon 1098 comment:*Did you or your former spouse intentionally misrepresent or conceal information necessary for the other person to make a well-informed marital decision? Did someone else (a parent, for example) misrepresent or conceal information necessary for a well-informed marital decision? Was the deception intentionally done in order to get the other person’s agreement to marry? **If the truth had been known, and the deception not carried out, would the marriage not have occurred? ***If the deceit was later discovered, did it have an immediate effect on the marriage? Did the separation or divorce occur because of this?
Canon 1097.2 comment:Was there a certain quality or trait that either you or your former spouse were looking for in a prospective husband or wife (for example, a certain social status, marital status, education, a certain profession, religious conviction, freedom from addiction or disease, freedom from an arrest record)? Did you or your former spouse consider that trait so important in a prospective spouse that you would marry only someone who possessed that trait? Would this marriage have been called off if the other person did not possess that quality? When it was learned that you or your former spouse did not possess that quality, did the other spouse react with shock or surprise? Did you separate immediately afterward, or did your marital relationship change immediately afterward?

The OP’s husband has already said it didn’t make a difference, let alone a material difference. And the second comment doesn’t apply at all. It is theoretically possible that a material “trait” was virginity. But she did not withhold information on that trait. He knew he wasn’t marrying a virgin.

Can you imagine the petition?

“Dear tribunal, I thought I had deflowered a virgin before I married her but it turns out I was just fornicating with her. The difference is so important that I divorced her 20 years later and I want you to find my marriage null.”

I can’t even imagine any advocate doing the paperwork on that one.

The whole discussion is moot without a civil divorce. This man seems to be serious about his faith and have a vocation to be a deacon. To get divorced over something like this would be gravely sinful and disqualify him for the diaconate. His marriage is valid and he seems to be happily married to a woman who cares deeply for his soul.

Lynne72, do not worry about this. As 1ke said, the priest may have misspoke or his comment may have been misinterpreted. Regardless, he has caused you completely unnecessary worry. Your marriage is valid and your husband meets the qualifications to continue his studies toward the diaconate in this regard.

 

[Julianna]

He needs to get over himself. It’s been 19 plus yrs. And he slept with you before you all were married. His halo ain’t too straight either.

 

[Rence]

The OP’s husband has already said it didn’t make a difference, let alone a material difference. And the second comment doesn’t apply at all. It is theoretically possible that a material “trait” was virginity. But she did withhold information on that trait. He knew he wasn’t marrying a virgin.

Can you imagine the petition?

Why are you being so stubborn about this? You know you’re wrong. The fact is,** if **the OP’s husband would not have married her had he’d known, he would have a very good case for having the marriage declared invalid. The fact that the OP’s husband said he would have married her anyway saved her marriage. Otherwise she’d be up a creek without a paddle. You know this is true. Why continue to argue about it? You’ve even been provided quotes from canon law and the documents that are used to assess the marriage.

“Dear tribunal, I thought I had deflowered a virgin before I married her but it turns out I was just fornicating with her. The difference is so important that I divorced her 20 years later and I want you to find my marriage null.”

“Dear Tribunal, my partner lied to me about being having previous partners before me. She had me believe she was a virgin before me. I wouldn’t have married her had I known she had previous sexual partners”.

I can’t even imagine any advocate doing the paperwork on that one.

Believe it.

The whole discussion is moot without a civil divorce. This man seems to be serious about his faith and have a vocation to be a deacon.

And that, the OP should be very grateful for. That is truly a blessing and because he acknowledged that he would have married her anyway, there is no reason why he can’t put this behind him, and that they can move on. Quite a different story if he would have said that this new information would have changed his mind.

Lynne72, do not worry about this. As 1ke said, the priest may have misspoke or his comment may have been misinterpreted. Regardless, he has caused you completely unnecessary worry. Your marriage is valid and your husband meets the qualifications to continue his studies toward the diaconate in this regard.

I think we can all agree with this

 

[ccmcmg]

I am reading her question as “is the marriage valid” because the diaconate requirement is a valid marriage of at least 7 years.

They have been validly married 19 years.

The husband is not seeking an annulment or a divorce on this matter.

 

[k5rakitan]

I hope you two can get past this through counseling. I can understand your fear of not telling him in the first place. So much value is placed on virginity that people lose sight of what love really means. Be sure to share all your feelings with him on this matter so he knows where you were coming from.

 

[dans0622]

… Both parties must give full disclosure in order for both parties to freely consent.

Withholding any information that would make the other party break off the engagement affects the validity of the marriage – because the person was lied to and would have otherwise not consented to marry the person. …

Hello,

There is a significant difference between these two statements. The most important difference is that the first one is wrong while the second one is right. The Church does *not *demand “full disclosure.” The Church does *not *demand that each Party know every single important fact about the other Party before being able to consent to marriage. The Church *does *demand the absence of deceit about a quality that, of its nature, could seriously disturb the conjugal life. So, your first comment is demanding positive action by all prospective spouses. The second comment is demanding the absence of an action. The Church’s requirements (at least when it comes to this particular canon) are limited to the latter.

Dan