Is NFP Used too Much?

[T1Catholic]

I heard a show on Catholic radio the other day where the host was praising NFP as the Church’s best kept secret and how every Catholic couple should be encouraged to use it. I was a little miffed because I thought NFP could only be used if there is grave reason for delaying children and that it shouldn’t be used as a permanant way to stop having kids altogether. Now of course grave reason is up for intrepretation. But too many times I hear Catholics praising NFP in a way that really does make it sound like the Catholic alternative to artificial contraception, rather than saying that NFP is not something to be used all the time (unless you’re trying to get pregnant) and that it is only meant for certain periods in your life. Does anyone else see NFP in this light?

 

[Em_in_FL]

From the catechism…

The fecundity of marriage

2366
Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment. So the Church, which is "on the side of life,"151 teaches that "it is necessary that each and every marriage act remain ordered per se to the procreation of human life."152 "This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act."153

**2367
Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God.154 "Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility."155

2368
A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just** reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

    When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.156

2369
"By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood."157

2370
Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159

    Thus the innate LANGUAGE that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory LANGUAGE, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160

2371
"Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny."161

 

[1ke]

I was a little miffed because I thought NFP could only be used if there is grave reason for delaying children and that it shouldn’t be used as a permanant way to stop having kids altogether.

First, NFP is only information. Deciding to have sex or not have sex is the action, which may or may not meet objective criteria for morality, not NFP itself.

Second, NFP can also be used to conceive children, please don’t forget.

Third, the criteria is “just” reason, not “grave” reason.

Fourth, there is no church teaching that it can’t be used indefinitely to avoid-- ie, “permanently” avoiding. There may be a just reason to do so.

rather than saying that NFP is not something to be used all the time (unless you’re trying to get pregnant) and that it is only meant for certain periods in your life. Does anyone else see NFP in this light?

No, because that is not church teaching.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Notice the catechism’s use of “just” reasons vs “grave” reasons…
Are the “reasons” for using NFP “justified”? Maybe so!

It also mentions that married couples should “…fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility”…
“Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children;”…

So in other words… part of this “Christian responsibility” needs to take into account the married couples’ ability to “educate their children”…
Does that simply correlate being able to “afford to pay for schooling for your children?”
No, of course not. Educating your children also involves the ability to show proper example of how to lead a faithful life. For some couples a larger amount of children would cause stress on a marriage and maybe lead to distructing that responsibility of properly educating the children in the faith…

Does that makes sense? I kinda rambled there! sorry!

 

[T1Catholic]

Second, NFP can also be used to conceive children, please don’t forget…

Yes I know that and I mentioned that in my post - it can be very helpful in planning children and was for me and hubby. I don’t know but something doesn’t sit right with me when there are some (granted not many ) NFP using Catholics I have come across who have two children and decide that’s enough because there is a certain lifestyle they want to keep, nice cars, big suburban home, Carribean vacations at all-inclusive resorts, paying for the kids entire college education (rather than the kids having to work part-time to earn some of their tuition), brand new hockey equipment rather than pre-owned, etc. But I am grateful they are using NFP rather than artificial contraception. I’m about to have my fourth child and you would not believe how many people in my parish (parents with young children especially) who tell me and my husband that we’re “crazy” to have 4 kids and they just don’t know how we manage and that two is more than enough for them. When we hint that maybe we’d have a fifth someday they roll their eyes and say things like we’re “hopeless” and “gluttons for punishment”. With NFP you can get very good at knowing exactly when you can conceive so it becomes easy at always avoiding sex at a certain time of the month. So are these people still open to life when they know the chances of getting pregnant is nearly next to nil?

 

[Em_in_FL]

Yes I know that and I mentioned that in my post - it can be very helpful in planning children and was for me and hubby. I don’t know but something doesn’t sit right with me when there are some (granted not many ) NFP using Catholics I have come across who have two children and decide that’s enough because there is a certain lifestyle they want to keep, nice cars, big suburban home, Carribean vacations at all-inclusive resorts, paying for the kids entire college education (rather than the kids having to work part-time to earn some of their tuition), brand new hockey equipment rather than pre-owned, etc. But I am grateful they are using NFP rather than artificial contraception. I’m about to have my fourth child and you would not believe how many people in my parish (parents with young children especially) who tell me and my husband that we’re “crazy” to have 4 kids and they just don’t know how we manage and that two is more than enough for them. When we hint that maybe we’d have a fifth someday they roll their eyes and say things like we’re “hopeless” and “gluttons for punishment”. With NFP you can get very good at knowing exactly when you can conceive so it becomes easy at always avoiding sex at a certain time of the month. So are these people still open to life when they know the chances of getting pregnant is nearly next to nil?

How do you know that their motivation is financial?
How do you know they aren’t emotionally/mentally drained and don’t feel like they can “educate” their children properly?
How do you know they’re not dealing with fertility issues?
How do you know if the wife has extremely difficult pregnancies and has been told to avoid?

You don’t… so what I’m saying is… don’t judge on appearances. Sometimes responding with phrases like “crazy” and “gluttons for punishment” are ways of hiding possibly just reasons for avoiding.

 

[a_cermak]

Yes I know that and I mentioned that in my post - it can be very helpful in planning children and was for me and hubby. I don’t know but something doesn’t sit right with me when there are some (granted not many ) NFP using Catholics I have come across who have two children and decide that’s enough because there is a certain lifestyle they want to keep, nice cars, big suburban home, Carribean vacations at all-inclusive resorts, paying for the kids entire college education (rather than the kids having to work part-time to earn some of their tuition), brand new hockey equipment rather than pre-owned, etc. But I am grateful they are using NFP rather than artificial contraception. I’m about to have my fourth child and you would not believe how many people in my parish (parents with young children especially) who tell me and my husband that we’re “crazy” to have 4 kids and they just don’t know how we manage and that two is more than enough for them. When we hint that maybe we’d have a fifth someday they roll their eyes and say things like we’re “hopeless” and “gluttons for punishment”. With NFP you can get very good at knowing exactly when you can conceive so it becomes easy at always avoiding sex at a certain time of the month. So are these people still open to life when they know the chances of getting pregnant is nearly next to nil?

But what difference does it make to you if they choose a more lavish life with less children? I’ve noticed this with other posts to, where couples who have larger families almost feel put upon by the fact that others are “cheating” by limiting their families. So? They cheat themselves out of the joy of more children, yes? What difference does it make to you and your life? You’ve chosen to have a larger family, you can be generous in allowing others to have smaller ones can’t you?

Or is it just the sarcastic barbs? If so, tell them to keep their comments to themselves.

 

[1ke]

I don’t know but something doesn’t sit right with me when there are some (granted not many ) NFP using Catholics I have come across who have two children and decide that’s enough because there is a certain lifestyle they want to keep,

Again, NFP is just information.

The sin in the scenario you describe, if any, is failing the to meet objective moral criteria for “just reasons”.

When we hint that maybe we’d have a fifth someday they roll their eyes and say things like we’re “hopeless” and “gluttons for punishment”.

An anti-child mentality is very prevelent in our society, and it’s very sad.

So are these people still open to life when they know the chances of getting pregnant is nearly next to nil?

Objectively, yes they are.

 

[T1Catholic]

But what difference does it make to you if they choose a more lavish life with less children? I’ve noticed this with other posts to, where couples who have larger families almost feel put upon by the fact that others are “cheating” by limiting their families. So? They cheat themselves out of the joy of more children, yes? What difference does it make to you and your life? You’ve chosen to have a larger family, you can be generous in allowing others to have smaller ones can’t you?

Or is it just the sarcastic barbs? If so, tell them to keep their comments to themselves.

Ok, this is the problem with these forums, it’s hard to get across tone. What I am wondering is just because you use NFP does that mean you are under no obligation to question your motives - you’re in the complete free and clear? With my first two kids I used NFP with a contraceptive mentality even though it took some time and study and meeting with a spiritual director to see I was doing this. I’ve been to different NFP talks and it’s like there are only two options for couples to consider, either NFP or go against the Church and use artificial birth control. There is never the talk of examining some of the fears/concerns we tend to have with regards to large families - it seems to me that it’s always assumed that couples want small families and NFP is the way to acheive that. Maybe my experiences with NFP and other Catholics in my area is not common and that’s why my view is skewed.

 

[leonie]

All the couples I know who use NFP have big families. I don’t know any who use NFP selfishly.

I do know a couple who use it for a serious health reason–they have four children.

I think the very virtue forming nature of NFP opens one up to life.

 

[T1Catholic]

From the catechism…

Thank you for the quotes. But I didn’t see in your quotes from the Catechism the following:

2373 Sacred Scripture and the Church’s traditional practice see in large families a sign of God’s blessing and the parents’ generosity.162

This quote ties into my previous post where I mention that I don’t hear talk about the consideration of large families during NFP talks - but again that could just be what I’ve been exposed to.

Also, what sticks out at me when I refer to your quotes from the catechism is the phrase “Periodic continence”. To me the word “periodic” is critical. Periodic does not mean constant but then we’re right back to what a couple decides is a just reason and it’s up to the couple to ensure they are not rationalizing what they think is a just reason when it might be motivated by the selfishness the catechism tells us to watch out for.

Ok I’m out of this forum as it’s 5:30 on Friday and the weekend is here!

 

[T1Catholic]

All the couples I know who use NFP have big families. I don’t know any who use NFP selfishly.

I do know a couple who use it for a serious health reason–they have four children.

I think the very virtue forming nature of NFP opens one up to life.

I’m glad to hear that about the big families you know of. We do not have big Catholic families where I live. I would have to say the most common is 2 kids.

 

[1ke]

But what difference does it make to you if they choose a more lavish life with less children?

It does make a difference, the Catechism and other Church teachings are clear that the reasons must be just, not selfish, and must conform to objective moral criteria.

You’ve chosen to have a larger family, you can be generous in allowing others to have smaller ones can’t you?

It is not wrong to work on *informing their consciences *through through her excellent example and through discussion of church teaching with them.

 

[1ke]

What I am wondering is just because you use NFP does that mean you are under no obligation to question your motives - you’re in the complete free and clear?

Absolutely not. The Church teaches otherwise.

There is never the talk of examining some of the fears/concerns we tend to have with regards to large families - it seems to me that it’s always assumed that couples want small families and NFP is the way to acheive that.

I am sorry that has been your experience, and if your parish/diocese is promoting it this way they are failing their flock.

Maybe my experiences with NFP and other Catholics in my area is not common and that’s why my view is skewed.

It likely is common, but it is not NFP that is the root of that problem.

 

[1ke]

Also, what sticks out at me when I refer to your quotes from the catechism is the phrase “Periodic continence”. To me the word “periodic” is critical.

Periodic continence means within one cycle-- ie, during the fertile period.

 

[aurora77]

I’m glad to hear that about the big families you know of. We do not have big Catholic families where I live. I would have to say the most common is 2 kids.

I have to re-iterate what Emily said–do you know what’s in their hearts? How do you know they aren’t experiencing secondary or tertiary infertility? DH and I have been married over 4 years, have a comfortable dual income home (not rich but we can go out to eat, have Dish, good internet, all those non-essentials), and have been using NFP to try to achieve pregnancy with no luck so far. Sometimes in my really down times I worry what people at church think of us, that they may assume that we’re contracepting, or that we’re selfish for not having kids.

So, please, you may be right, these Catholics you know might be just being selfish, but unless you know for sure, don’t make assumptions. Pray for them to have all the kids God wants of them, whether it’s 0 or 15. I know a little prayer wouldn’t hurt us.

 

[rpp]

First let me say, let us not forget about the Holy Family. The Blessed Virgin Mary, and St. Joseph were celebate. Somehow, I suspect that was not sinful.

I am currently reviewing some of Chrstopher West’s information and he has an interesting contrast between NFP and ABC.

First he reminds us the ABC is sinful in all cases. (Please let us not debate this point!) Then tells us that using NFP is not inherently sinful. He draws an example.

You are waiting to inheret grandma’s estate. There are two things you can do. You could kill her (ABC) or you can wait for her to die (NFP). Which do you think is sinful?

Personally, I think if you are using NFP to avoid having “rugrats” running around, that is questionable. If you are using NFP because you want to make sure that the children you have can go to college, and you are praying about your use of it and seeking God’s direction, then I suspect you are good.

 

[Pug]

What I am wondering is just because you use NFP does that mean you are under no obligation to question your motives - you’re in the complete free and clear? With my first two kids I used NFP with a contraceptive mentality

When you (or others) are talking about NFP and motives, does NFP to you mean sometimes having relations? Or does NFP include total abstinence? I find it confusing to understand total abstinence as being done with a contraceptive mentality.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Thank you for the quotes. But I didn’t see in your quotes from the Catechism the following:

2373 Sacred Scripture and the Church’s traditional practice see in large families a sign of God’s blessing and the parents’ generosity.162

This quote ties into my previous post where I mention that I don’t hear talk about the consideration of large families during NFP talks - but again that could just be what I’ve been exposed to.

You asked about the use of NFP… I was answering *your *direct question.

Also, what sticks out at me when I refer to your quotes from the catechism is the phrase “Periodic continence”. To me the word “periodic” is critical. Periodic does not mean constant but then we’re right back to what a couple decides is a just reason and it’s up to the couple to ensure they are not rationalizing what they think is a just reason when it might be motivated by the selfishness the catechism tells us to watch out for.

True!.. it’s periodic… not constant! Meaning if a married couple finds just reasons to avoid conception then they don’t have to avoid the marital embrace and weaken the state of their marriages.

Why is it that so often people JUDGE others’ use of NFP?
Are you really worthy of suggesting that everyone who uses NFP is being selfish? That is up to the married couple to discuss within the privacy of their own marriages.

Yes… you sound very judgemental. I know you may not *mean *to be… but it certainly sounds that way.

 

[litllulu]

I have lots of friends and family that use NFP. Some have big families and some have small. Some may have smaller families for different reasons. Finances are a big issue. I know people make more money now than they did fifty years ago, but the expenses for everything have gone up exponentially too. It is really distressing hearing my sisters talk about the price of Catholic education. It is worth it, don’t get me wrong, but not everyone can afford it. Some of my sibblings are run ragged by the demands of their family, they use NFP to space the next birth. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Some people come up to them and say how they “have it made”. They don’t, and others may ask why they don’t have more, but they know why, and God knows why.