Is nudity a sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter yesukristus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I teach art, and will tell you that it is a sad thing to have to refrain from mentioning Leonardo Da Vinci and the Fresco… falling apart… simply becuase it is of the Last Supper.

I got fired for teaching that class Just once.

So yes, I was discriminated against as an agnostic for introducing Da Vinci to the kids.

Kill me now.🤷:eek:

I did not get fired for mentioning Michealangelo or Rapheal… But That darn Da Vinci using a dry method fresco, as opposed to the wet method…

Was it about the method, or the madness that got tempers flared for simply trying to educate them? Hmmm…
That’s idiotic to say the least.The Church has been one of the largest proponents ofthe arts throughout the ages.I can only see this as another invasion of the soul of our church by the evangelical right in the USA.
 
That’s idiotic to say the least.The Church has been one of the largest proponents ofthe arts throughout the ages.I can only see this as another invasion of the soul of our church by the evangelical right in the USA.
The principal is a Baptist. She even tossed their projects into the waste recepticle.

They did a Fresco, and worked so hard on it. She grabbed them all up and tossed them in the garbage, and notifyed me that I was no longer employed there.
 
QUOTE=StrawberryJam;6327948]The principal is a Baptist. She even tossed their projects into the waste recepticle.
They did a Fresco, and worked so hard on it. She grabbed them all up and tossed them in the garbage, and notifyed me that I was no longer employed there.

Why am I not surprised!
 
Nudist colonies, though, are generally rebelling against the prevailing standards of modesty in their cultures–they are purposefully unveiling what everyone around them agrees should remain hidden. That’s a no go.
EXCELLENT Call, Moscati!!! I have been trying to explain this in words but to no avail.
 
Nudists honestly believe nudism is natural , and good for your health.They don’t do it to flaunt convention-if they wanted to do that they would walk around in public. But they don’t-they have very private resorts,very private beaches.not exactly-not exactly anti-cultural warriors.
 
I would say it depends. The question of whether or not it is acceptable to go nude cannot be separated from its cultural context. To understand why, we ought to take into account exactly why it is that one chooses to cover oneself and exactly what the intention of the individual going nude really is.

To begin with, it is obvious that the naked human body is not sinful to display in an absolute sense. If the scores of nudes in the Vatican did not help one to arrive at this conclusion, then the creation of man and woman being naked and unashamed ought to put that question to rest.

Once Original Sin had entered the picture, however, our first parents immediately covered themselves. This is because with sin entered shame, in other words, both Adam and Eve knew of their own dignity and that they were not meant to be looked upon as a mere sexual object. They covered themselves to preserve their human dignity, not because the rejected the dignity of their bodies. “Shame is a tendency, uniquely characteristic of the human person, to conceal sexual values sufficiently to prevent them from obscuring the value of the person as such.” (1)

Nudists, as I understand it, wish to be freed from what they regard as oppressive notions of body image. As such, they conceive the custom of wearing clothing not so much as protection against the lusts of others but as a mere species of vanity. For them, the body has no inherent dignity to it and is not so much in need of protection. This is shamelessness and should never be confused with the state of mind that our first parents had in their Original Innocence. To the extent that the nudist has devalued his own body to the point where he has grown indifferent to the lustful look of another, he sins.

How does this differ from those so-called primitive people for whom dress is far more relaxed? Here again, I appeal to context. Even within our own society, we can acknowledge that a woman in a bikini is modest at the beach, but perhaps not in a church. For such cultures that go nude more often that we do here in the West, the question should not be a crude one about what percentage of the body is visible, but whether or not the nudity in question is directed toward some practical end and whether or not it obscures the reality of the person.

Therefore, I can concede only that it might be possible, in some hyper-abstract sense, to go nude in a nudist colony without the intention of arousing lust in others. In practice, though, having been brought up in the West with its mores and customs, I cannot see that such a thing could be ordered to anything but titillation and the ultimate devaluing of the human person.

(1) Wojtyla, Karol. Love and Responsibility. Trans. H.T. Willetts. San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1981. p 187.
 
In Mexico I have NEVER seen a man nor a woman in shorts.In Costa Rica a woman tourista wearing shorts will draw stares and comment.
Really? A friend of mine just got back from Cancun. She said the bathing suits were skimpy. I’ll have to ask her about anyone wearing shorts.
 
Really? A friend of mine just got back from Cancun. She said the bathing suits were skimpy. I’ll have to ask her about anyone wearing shorts.
Cancun doesn’t really count as Mexico, in my book–it’s basically all tourists.
 
Cancun doesn’t really count as Mexico, in my book–it’s basically all tourists.
Well, being in Texas, you are a lot closer to mexico than I am. Have you ever seen real people in Mexico wearing shorts or is it true that one NEVER sees this? There are shorts wearers in Texas aren’t there?
 
:confused:
Cancun doesn’t really count as Mexico, in my book–it’s basically all tourists.
Does Cozumel count? They wear shorts there also.
Are you saying that no Mexican nationals wear shorts? How many times have you been there?
 
Cancun doesn’t really count as Mexico, in my book–it’s basically all tourists.
What “counts” in your book? I have been to Mexico due to it being a cheap vacation many times. Are you going to tell me no one who is a national wears shorts? In all of Mexico?

Haha. You must be kidding my friend. I saw more skin in Mexico than I have in Chicago.

Seen it myself. Tourists from Europe and Mexican nationals very scantily clad. I did see muslim women fully covered.

Go visit the Pilsen area of chicago if you want to see Mexicans who are scantilly clad, tatted up with “Our Lady of Guadalupe” and the horrid priest that is a scandal to the community at large and slaps Cardinal George every chance he gets for being so loving, to all so called minorities. Father Phleger is an outright con artist. He is allowed this luxury after defying his superior Cardinal George, wich did not go unnoticed amoung the catholic faithful that he can do what he does because… and gets away with it because… figure it out…
 
"Is nudity a sin?"

That depends on what the nude person looks like. 😃

Seriously though, the answer to that is influenced not only by religion, but also by culture and society.

On a personal note - I went to a nude beach several years ago - “Hippy Hollow” (you folks from Texas should be familiar with that place ;))
When we were in our early 20’s, my girlfriend and I went there for the novelty of it all. 😃
 
What “counts” in your book? I have been to Mexico due to it being a cheap vacation many times. Are you going to tell me no one who is a national wears shorts? In all of Mexico?

Haha. You must be kidding my friend. I saw more skin in Mexico than I have in Chicago.

Seen it myself. Tourists from Europe and Mexican nationals very scantily clad. I did see muslim women fully covered.

Go visit the Pilsen area of chicago if you want to see Mexicans who are scantilly clad, tatted up with “Our Lady of Guadalupe” and the horrid priest that is a scandal to the community at large and slaps Cardinal George every chance he gets for being so loving, to all so called minorities. Father Phleger is an outright con artist. He is allowed this luxury after defying his superior Cardinal George, wich did not go unnoticed amoung the catholic faithful that he can do what he does because… and gets away with it because… figure it out…
Of course not. My point had nothing to do with who does and doesn’t wear shorts, and I have no idea what you’re going about in Chicago. I’ve been to the cheap vacation tourist spots in Mexico, and I’ve been out in the country, working in indigent clinics, and I’ve visited my roommate’s middle-class relatives. Some people wear shorts, some don’t. “Always” and “never” don’t usually work.

What I meant, and didn’t explain very well, is that in most countries there’s a sort of cultural soup in the most frequently visited places. There’s a McDonald’s in the basement of the Louvre, and there are scantily-clad tourists on tourist beaches in Cancun–I don’t think one can say that these instances are real expressions of ‘French’ or ‘Mexican’ culture–you have to go somewhere else in the country if you want to really see that. I think visiting Cancun and saying you’ve seen Mexico is like visiting Manhattan and saying you’ve seen the U.S. You haven’t, really.

People most definitely wear shorts in Texas. Even when it’s snowing . . . 🤷
 
Of course not. My point had nothing to do with who does and doesn’t wear shorts, and I have no idea what you’re going about in Chicago. I’ve been to the cheap vacation tourist spots in Mexico, and I’ve been out in the country, working in indigent clinics, and I’ve visited my roommate’s middle-class relatives. Some people wear shorts, some don’t. “Always” and “never” don’t usually work.

What I meant, and didn’t explain very well, is that in most countries there’s a sort of cultural soup in the most frequently visited places. There’s a McDonald’s in the basement of the Louvre, and there are scantily-clad tourists on tourist beaches in Cancun–I don’t think one can say that these instances are real expressions of ‘French’ or ‘Mexican’ culture–you have to go somewhere else in the country if you want to really see that. I think visiting Cancun and saying you’ve seen Mexico is like visiting Manhattan and saying you’ve seen the U.S. You haven’t, really.

People most definitely wear shorts in Texas. Even when it’s snowing . . . 🤷
It is Soutane who said in Mexico they NEVER wear shorts. He is the one who has lost credibility. On an anonymous posting site like this, it is important to discover who is credible and who is …
 
They were required to cover up. That was source of shame.
Exactly-proving that modesty is a social construct that can change according to the culture. Not set in stone.
 
Exactly-proving that modesty is a social construct that can change according to the culture. Not set in stone.
I wholly agree.
For example, the people of Karamoja (Uganda) had not the idea of nudity: they just didn’t wear any clothing.
The imposition of clothing by missionaries and colonial authorities aroused confusion and shame.
 
Hello everyone… I am doing some research in order to help a friend of mine out for a paper he is doing in college (christian collage), when I came upon this thread, and felt compelled to join and add my two cents to this conversation/ Being a person who was raised Catholic, stopped attending church for many reasons and recently began attending again, and also having a PHD in Psychology, I thought maybe I had something to offer?

First I want to get some quotes out of the way and reply to a few statements that have been made…
40.png
Moscati:
Nudist colonies, though, are generally rebelling against the prevailing standards of modesty in their cultures–they are purposefully unveiling what everyone around them agrees should remain hidden. That’s a no go.
That is not accurate at all. In-fact it’s an assumption. (what happens when we assume :)) Nudists feel that there is health benefits (which there are) and enjoy the freedom above all else. You may be surprised to know that the vast majority of nudists are also Christians. This category also feel that their body was a gift from God and that being ashamed of it would be an insult to God.
40.png
StrawberryJam:
I teach art, and will tell you that it is a sad thing to have to refrain from mentioning Leonardo Da Vinci and the Fresco… falling apart… simply becuase it is of the Last Supper.

I got fired for teaching that class Just once.
This is a classic example of why many people feel that the church is nothing more than a way of controlling people. You must conform to be included. Also it’s very closed minded. Sorry to hear about that. Things like that can stain the church in my opinion. There was a case were a preacher or priest (I forget which it was) was kicked out of the church because he publicly stated that he believed in God’s creation of man and evolution and that science has it’s place in Christianity. It’s the little things like this that stopped me from attending church for so many years…
Other Eric:
To begin with, it is obvious that the naked human body is not sinful to display in an absolute sense. If the scores of nudes in the Vatican did not help one to arrive at this conclusion, then the creation of man and woman being naked and unashamed ought to put that question to rest.
Your statements confuse me at first as to what your stance on the subject is? Creation of man and woman being naked and ashamed, isn’t even what the Bible says… They ate form the tree of knowledge, which God forbid them to do (unfortunately another sign of religion not wanting us to be smart and think for ourselves). After which they got intelligent and realized they were naked and hid their nakedness from God. We can assume from this that they were ashamed, I like to think maybe they were just bashful and not ashamed.
Other Eric:
They covered themselves to preserve their human dignity, not because the rejected the dignity of their bodies. “Shame is a tendency, uniquely characteristic of the human person, to conceal sexual values sufficiently to prevent them from obscuring the value of the person as such.” (1)
This is only your interpretation. Nobody can know what they were thinking. As I stated, they could just as easily been bashful. That is not a sin. You were never bashful around a girl as a child? Or have you just always been a lady’s man? 😉 And shame is not a tendency, it is taught.
Other Eric:
Nudists, as I understand it, wish to be freed from what they regard as oppressive notions of body image. As such, they conceive the custom of wearing clothing not so much as protection against the lusts of others but as a mere species of vanity. For them, the body has no inherent dignity to it and is not so much in need of protection. This is shamelessness and should never be confused with the state of mind that our first parents had in their Original Innocence. To the extent that the nudist has devalued his own body to the point where he has grown indifferent to the lustful look of another, he sins.
Just the opposite, they say they have more dignity, because they are not ashamed of it. To have dignity is to hold you head high, and to have a feeling of honor. They feel they are honoring their bodies rather than hiding them… Lust is a sin is it not? So to be able to look upon a naked body without lust, should be considered as being more free from sin than one who looks upon it with lust. Looking on a body with lust is not oly a sin, but it’s also one of our problems in society, ie: Rape.
Other Eric:
Therefore, I can concede only that it might be possible, in some hyper-abstract sense, to go nude in a nudist colony without the intention of arousing lust in others. In practice, though, having been brought up in the West with its mores and customs, I cannot see that such a thing could be ordered to anything but titillation and the ultimate devaluing of the human person.
And that’s the problem. You say, having been brought up… So you show acknowledgment that upbringing has a lot to do with your beliefs. Nothing wrong with that… So is being seen by another in the nude a sin, or merely a social more/custom to avoid? You seeing nudity as titillating or devaluing is you personal belief or more and honestly should never be forced upon another person. I like to think that the real reason we shouldn’t go nude in public is out of respect, but more for the other person than yourself. Nudity has nothing to do with respecting yourself. However, knowing that other people have a different belief system other than your own and might be offended by nakedness, is where not going nude in public is a way of respecting other people. Simple as that.
 
Now religion aside, I would like to mention a few of the psychological aspects of things. Afterward I would like to hear your thought of how this (nudity) could be a sin, This is what compelled me to this thread when I saw all of this… I did around 3 years of research on this subject and it was my thesis. I have thought about continuing my research into this as well.

Some of the interesting statistics I found were that African cultures that continue to wear clothing only as protection from the elements, yet continue the majority of their time with little or nothing on, almost never have an incidence of rape, or adultery. Same can be said for the true nudist or naturalist. I think it is safe to say that the majority of sexual crimes appear to be committed by males. And I think we can agree that it’s pretty easy to tell when a male is sexually excited, or “turned on”. You don’t see these signs of arousal (to put it delicately) in men surrounded by nude women… and children for that matter. In the very rare cases that this does become apparent, they are removed from the premises and if they suspect anything the law is called. But it is extremely rare. how often do we hear about sexual crimes happening around nudists? How many around everything else, even in the church. Sorry to say it, but we can’t hide from the truth, and I am getting to my point…

How many times have you heard about someone with an eating disorder? Have any of you known anyone with one? What causes them? Well an overwhelming number of professionals agree that body image is a leading cause. Having interviewed literally hundreds of nudists, including former child nudists, who continue to go nude, none of them have signs of poor body image. You have to ask yourself why? An analogy I heard once described a young teen (a nudist) who while hanging out with his friend (non-nudist), came across some nudie magazines. The nudist friend could not understand why on Earth his friend was so excited over this. He had seen nude women his whole life, It was not a big deal to him.

It so happens that nudists marriages last more often than non-nudists’ marriages. While talking about this with nudists, they all agreed on the same thing. Most people they know, when looking for a partner, the first thing they say is how good they looked, how great their bodies were, etc, etc, etc. They were sexually attracted to them first. Many of these marriages based on these attractions simply don’t work out and end in divorce. While the nudists were attracted to their spouses by their intellect, their charm, wit, since of humor, etc. Sex was the furthest thing from their minds. My response was, “So you don’t enjoy sex?” The answers were always along the lines of, “Absolutely, we probably enjoy it more than you. Because we have true passion for one another, what can be greater than that?”

It turns out that most nudists, especially ones that grew up as nudists, have almost no cases of STD’s among them, they have very positive and healthy body images, have long lasting marriages, are faithful to their spouses and boy/girl friends, and simply do not associate sex with nudity.

Meanwhile, we all teach our children right from the start to cover up. And the problem I see is that we don’t tell them the right reasons why to cover up. We don’t say that some people find it offensive because they were taught different, etc.

A sad example of this is this… A father hears a loud thump coming from his 16 year old daughters room, he shouts outside her door to see if she is alright, for what ever reason she doesn’t answer right away, he gets concerned and opens the door. She is naked, or at least partially, she is modified! Years go by and even though she knows it was a mistake and she isn’t mad at him or anything, she still has trouble looking directly at him.
And he does too, because both of them are inherently emotional people and they just never got over the shock completely, so there will always be some discomfort between them.

Same situation, but with a family who are not even nudists, they are just not ashamed of their bodies and don’t look at it with fear of sin if they are saw naked. So in this household, it was normal for them to see each other once in a while in the state of changing clothes, getting out of the shower and going into their rooms. They didn’t flaunt it, but they didn’t hide it either. The simple fact is they were use to seeing each other naked every so often and the daughter was taught that nudity does not equal sex. We must be clothed in front of others, because they may see nudity as something bad, evil, or heck, they might even be a rapist, or something, you have to be careful. but mainly we wear clothes in public to respect the feelings of people, because we just don’t know what their feeling are.

same thing happens with the loud thump, this father also runs upstairs shouts, and gets no reply, he swings open the door, she is getting dressed and is either nude or partially. She simply replies, “Sorry, I didn’t hear you, I’m fine. But thank you for being concerned.” He shuts the door to give her her privacy and goes back downstairs. No harm done.

How can nudity be a sin? Only if we have impure thoughts ourselves could it be a sin. And not everyone has impure thoughts. Personally, after knowing more about nudists, I would feel better if a nudist caught a glimpse of my daughter or wife naked, knowing that they likely are not thinking about it being “dirty” than someone else who I don’t know what they’re thinking, but I know there is a greater chance of this person thinking something dirty…

So to make a VERY long story short. I do not feel nudity is a sin.
 
Do we Catholics consider the people walking around naked in nudist colonies as living in sin? Certainly it sounds like an offense against modesty…
It is an inappropriate way of exposing the human body.

Peace,
Ed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top