Is online dating advisable?

[ComputerGeek25]

1. I disagree - I think the Bible does tell us. The story of Abraham trusting in God’s timing and providence, the story of Saul and his father’s missing asses, many Gospel passages on trust, etc. These lessons just need to be applied to our love lives, to internet dating, etc. Oh, and the lives of the saints can be applied to it all too.
2. Bang on, Kelvin. A student once asked me, “How else is a guy from podunk, Canada, out in the middle of nowhere, supposed to get married?” I said, “a guy from podunk, if he is serious about his faith, will have interests, maybe Opus Dei or the Charismatic Renewal. And such a person will be interested in conferences and the like. And those conferences will be the occasion God uses to introduce him to his future wife”. And then I told him the story about a friend of mine, who went to a conference, dropped her fork, and the guy at the next table reached down to pick it up at the same time she did. Their eyes met, and three years later they were married.

Honestly, I think the guy from podunk, if he is doing the other things God is calling him to, being faithful to the duties of his state, and pursing a life of holiness, will have a better chance of finding the woman he is supposed to marry than someone not doing all this but who is on internet dating sites. In fact, the guy from podunk will not be any more likely, and even less likely, to find the woman he is supposed to marry if he internet dates on top of all that, IMO.

I don’t see how your conclusion follows.

Before I met my girlfriend, I attended (and still do, to some extent) functions where I could meet a future spouse as well as keep a profile on online dating sites. This increases ones chances of meeting someone.

I don’t advise one to only look online.

I think some posters here are counting too much on luck. But you have to actually put yourself out there…

 

[agapewolf]

This is one long red herring.

My question was in response to your first red herring.

Of course marriage is a choice and a decision to love the other. I say “Amen” to the rest of what you say here too. But it has nothing to do with the points I made. Everything here is a red herring and a strawman, and I will not get led down that path.

It absolutey is NOT a red herring. It has everything to do with what you said, especially in regard to your response about choosing to marry the next person. I’m using your logic here, and it doesn’t work.

You made a statement that God wants us to marry one person. and online dating lessons the chance of finding that person. I used YOUR logic to follow through.

To call it a red herring is calling your arguments red herrings, not mine.

I argued against your definition of divine providence saying that means God has one person chosen. If that is so, then marriage is no longer a choice or free will in picking the person, nor is the vocation a choice. The church teaches the opposite. So your argument against online dating falls through.

Then you said, if marriage is a choice, then why not choose the next person online. I asked the same thing back, by using your logic.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

This is one long red herring.

My question was in response to your first red herring.

Of course marriage is a choice and a decision to love the other. I say “Amen” to the rest of what you say here too. But it has nothing to do with the points I made. Everything here is a red herring and a strawman, and I will not get led down that path.

The arguements used by agapewolf and myself are not red herrings or straw man.

All we are stating is that online dating, when used properly, can a good way to meet people.

 

[kelvinf]

1. I disagree - I think the Bible does tell us. The story of Abraham trusting in God’s timing and providence, the story of Saul and his father’s missing asses, many Gospel passages on trust, etc. These lessons just need to be applied to our love lives, to internet dating, etc. Oh, and the lives of the saints can be applied to it all too.
2. Bang on, Kelvin. A student once asked me, “How else is a guy from podunk, Canada, out in the middle of nowhere, supposed to get married?” I said, “a guy from podunk, if he is serious about his faith, will have interests, maybe Opus Dei or the Charismatic Renewal. And such a person will be interested in conferences and the like. And those conferences will be the occasion God uses to introduce him to his future wife”. And then I told him the story about a friend of mine, who went to a conference, dropped her fork, and the guy at the next table reached down to pick it up at the same time she did. Their eyes met, and three years later they were married.

Honestly, I think the guy from podunk, if he is doing the other things God is calling him to, being faithful to the duties of his state, and pursing a life of holiness, will have a better chance of finding the woman he is supposed to marry than someone not doing all this but who is on internet dating sites. In fact, the guy from podunk will not be any more likely, and even less likely, to find the woman he is supposed to marry if he internet dates on top of all that, IMO.

You are very right. On a similar thread, I made reference to Adam and Eve. Adam did not ask for a wife neither did he go searching for a wife. It was all God’s choice (Eve) and decision.

I meant that it’s not explicitly mentioned in the bible nor the CCC how to go about “finding” a spouse (if that’s required of us – something that I doubt).

 

[ComputerGeek25]

It absolutey is NOT a red herring. It has everything to do with what you said, especially in regard to your response about choosing to marry the next person. I’m using your logic here, and it doesn’t work.

You made a statement that God wants us to marry one person. and online dating lessons the chance of finding that person. I used YOUR logic to follow through.

To call it a red herring is calling your arguments red herrings, not mine.

I argued against your definition of divine providence saying that means God has one person chosen. If that is so, then marriage is no longer a choice or free will in picking the person, nor is the vocation a choice. The church teaches the opposite. So your argument against online dating falls through.

Then you said, if marriage is a choice, then why not choose the next person online. I asked the same thing back, by using your logic.

The divine providence arguement smells of pre-destinationalism which is clearly not Catholic.

 

[kelvinf]

This is not divine providence. Marriage is a choice, and the person we marry must be a choice as well. There is nothing in church teaching that suggests that God has one person planned for someone.

There is: Jeremiah 29:11

For I know well the plans I have in mind for you, says the LORD, plans for your welfare, not for woe! plans to give you a future full of hope.

It’s very clear.

 

[AHapka]

For me, I believe I will get to know my spouse in the same way I get to know friends which would simply be to go about my daily life in a way that God requires and if I am asked to advise someone on this issue, I will tell him to do the same.

And if someone’s daily life happens to involve a run through Gnomeregan on that day, they very well may meet someone who they end up talking to and later marry.

I’ve made many a friends on the computer. But if it’s not part of your daily life, then so be it I guess…

 

[Michael_Saint]

I don’t see how your conclusion follows.

Before I met my girlfriend, I attended (and still do, to some extent) functions where I could meet a future spouse as well as keep a profile on online dating sites. This increases ones chances of meeting someone.

I don’t advise one to only look online.

I think some posters here are counting too much on luck. But you have to actually put yourself out there…

With God, there is no such thing as “luck”. Only the coincidences and a-ha moments of providence.

The guy from podunk is putting himself out there, and is meeting all kinds of great single girls. And I think he is doing as much as he needs to do for God to act. There is such a thing as trying too hard and doing too much (Jason Evert speaks about this in “If You Really Loved Me”).

All I am saying is that the thinking “meeting people and joining an internet dating site doubles my chances” is not necessarily true, because the X factor is God and his providence.

What about Louis and Zelie? Should we not take them as models? What about Gianna Molla and her husband?

 

[Michael_Saint]

from the catechism

More red herrings. I know, I agree with the Catechism.

 

[kelvinf]

Response or not, it still doesn’t make sense in the line of thinking.

You said the natural tendency is to live in the real world. So is it or isn’t it? You being in an online forum by your logic goes against your reasoning. But if it doesn’t, then online dating can’t either.

It’s not a matter of just being online. It’s about online dating. And I said: The natural tendency is for us to live in the real world, build a visible society and to promote participation of the greatest number in the life of the society (and in so doing, we would meet our spouses)

 

[Michael_Saint]

The arguements used by agapewolf and myself are not red herrings or straw man.

All we are stating is that online dating, when used properly, can a good way to meet people.

They are red herrings. I have taken a college course in Logic as well as an “Introduction to Philosophy” course, and have engaged in debates, so I know a red herring when I see one. agapewolf’s post was clearly a red herring.

It was also a strawman because he was saying that I was saying that marriage was not a choice but something that “just happens” like in the movies.

I agree that online dating, when used properly, can be a good way to meet people. However, I am just not convinced God doesn’t have a better way, one that will make for a more perfect plan. With what I just said here, re-read my posts with that in mind.

 

[Michael_Saint]

It’s not a matter of just being online. It’s about online dating. And I said: The natural tendency is for us to live in the real world, build a visible society and to promote participation of the greatest number in the life of the society (and in so doing, we would meet our spouses)

I agree. Meeting people and new friends and communicating on the internet is good. However, meeting people and new friends and communicating in person is better.

Note: I am NOT speaking about internet dating here per se.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Kelvin,

I’m going to go back to your original arguement and point out where I, and others may have issues.

The reasons why I think online dating isn’t advisable are:

• online dating with the aim of searching for a spouse is something I believe singles should not be doing. People generally don’t search for friends per se and I believe friendship should precede good relationships that should lead to marriage.

You don’t recommend looking for friends, either? You must be awfully lonely, then?

What are you feelings on social events sponsered by churches? What about various clubs or hobby groups? Those must be bad too, right? I guess posing here on CAF is a no-no as well? There are many different ways to meet people and develop relationships.

I can identify with developing a good friendship before marriage. No arguement here.

• it might decrease social skills (like face-to-face communication).

This is a concern.

The goal of online dating is to get people to eventually meet you in person. I advise people to meet as soon as they are comfortable.

Also, it should be noted that this is a problem in other areas as well. Such as in business when dealing with co-workers and clients. But, my company will not take away my email. Instead, they are trying to foster a more collaborative environment, and help out with communication training.

• it hides personal faults. You choose what information you disclose and what pictures you share.

Even if you meet people in real life, they tend to hide their personal faults/information from you at first. This is not unique to online dating.

<more stuff about manners, looks, etc.>

This is why I advocate meeting someone as soon as possible

• people are one thing online and another thing in reality

Again, this is not unique to people you meet online.

I’ve met people at church or young adult catholic groups who act all pious, but you do not want to know what they were doing the night before.

Some of my views + those of Jason Evert (Catholic apologist)

Jason Everet does not speak for the Church (even though he has made some good contributions) and I find some of his logic faulty in this area.

 

[kelvinf]

And if someone’s daily life happens to involve a run through Gnomeregan on that day, they very well may meet someone who they end up talking to and later marry.

I’ve made many a friends on the computer. But if it’s not part of your daily life, then so be it I guess…

A run through “Gnomeregan” (whatever it is) is the persons choice based on his opinion.

Bumping into people, I agree. Searching for a spouse, I wonder

 

[ComputerGeek25]

They are red herrings. I have taken a college course in Logic as well as an “Introduction to Philosophy” course, and have engaged in debates, so I know a red herring when I see one. agapewolf’s post was clearly a red herring.

It was also a strawman because he was saying that I was saying that marriage was not a choice but something that “just happens” like in the movies.

I agree that online dating, when used properly, can be a good way to meet people. However, I am just not convinced God doesn’t have a better way, one that will make for a more perfect plan. With what I just said here, re-read my posts with that in mind.

Of course there may be better ways.

However, you can’t argue with the success that many have had with online dating. How can you argue wth results?

 

[Michael_Saint]

The divine providence arguement smells of pre-destinationalism which is clearly not Catholic.

Like “looks”, “smells” can be deceiving!

To some degree we rely on divine providence and trust in it. Please see Matthew 6:24-34 for one out of about five thousand passages in the Bible which speak about trust and God’s providence (it is one of Scripture’s three main themes - the others being Love and Hope). Some rely too much on it. That would be predestinationism, and that is not Catholic.

On the other extreme, you have an equally serious error, which is to trust too much in our efforts and not enough in God’s providential care and timing. That would consist of anxiously going to every Catholic event in the hopes of finding your future spouse and joining every possible dating site, etc. I have seen people like this. This would be the error of the Rationalists, who said Man is God and must achieve everything on his own.

Somewhere in the middle, you have the “Catholic” approach - trust in Providence, but also realize that God helps those who help themselves.

 

[Michael_Saint]

Of course there may be better ways.

However, you can’t argue with the success that many have had with online dating. How can you argue wth results?

If by “results” you mean people have entered good marriages, then yes, there have been success stories.

My own opinion? I believe God wants a lot of the people on dating sites to serve him longer in the single life. I believe God has partners out there for them five years down the road, but because they want to marry now, they find partners that, although good, would not be as much of a blessing for them had they waited.

Jason Evert did not internet date, but he did have three girlfriends before he met Crystalina. They all did not work out for various reasons - mainly because he was anxious to get married and trying to make it work at a time when he was just not ready (mainly financially and with him still in school). And Jason is so glad he waited! He is so glad that none of his previous relationships worked out! Had he married those girls, they would have been good marriages too - Jason has good taste in women. However, when you look at him and Crystalina - Wow! What a providential meeting and what a perfect couple.

I could have got married years ago. It would have been a good match. However, God had an even better plan in mind.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Like “looks”, “smells” can be deceiving!

To some degree we rely on divine providence and trust in it. Please see Matthew 6:24-34 for one out of about five thousand passages in the Bible which speak about trust and God’s providence (it is one of Scripture’s three main themes - the others being Love and Hope). Some rely too much on it. That would be predestinationism, and that is not Catholic.

On the other extreme, you have an equally serious error, which is to trust too much in our efforts and not enough in God’s providential care and timing. That would consist of anxiously going to every Catholic event in the hopes of finding your future spouse and joining every possible dating site, etc. I have seen people like this. This would be the error of the Rationalists, who said Man is God and must achieve everything on his own.

Somewhere in the middle, you have the “Catholic” approach - trust in Providence, but also realize that God helps those who help themselves.

I agree.

It is not healthy, nor the right attitude, to obsess over everything.

But, I think a good balance of putting yourself out there, praying about it, and then letting the chips fall where they may is the way to go. You have to seek something out in order to find it.

Where I don’t agree with the OP is that online dating or “spouse searching” is a bad thing.

 

[kelvinf]

if you have time to be in an online forum, than by the same logic, one can do other things online.

For me, it’s not a matter of being online. It’s a matter of online dating, spouse hunting. Does God expect us to spouse hunt?

 

[kelvinf]

I think some posters here are counting too much on luck. But you have to actually put yourself out there…

It’s faith man. It’s not luck.
Hebrews 11:1

To have faith is to be sure of the things we hope for, to be certain of the things we cannot see.